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Software update[edit | edit source]

Ho ho ho, merry Green Christmas! Here's my present to you: I just finished updating MediaWiki (the software of Appropedia) from version 1.35 to 1.39 (that's why it's been down and unstable for two hours)! The new version is a Long Term Support version, which means it will be supported until November 2025! This will probably be the last (major) update until the next Long Term Support version (1.43) since it's usually not worth updating to the short term support versions (unless some specific feature we want requires it).

MediaWiki 1.39 brings several new features (plus those of MediaWiki 1.36, 1.37 and 1.38) but perhaps more importantly, it allowed to update all extensions to their latest versions, which also brings several new features.

That being said, there'll also be several new bugs around due to the updates. I'll be fixing them during the next few days, but do let me know if you notice any I might have missed. Thanks! Sophivorus (talk) 14:45, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, don't know if this is related, but something a little weird with news templates: on Community action UK#News and comment I added in two new items via News UK, and removed the UK location from 2 (older items) via News by UK location, both on Dec 15. For me the new items are showing, but also the two which no longer have the UK as a location (?) Thanks, Philralph (talk) 11:01, 19 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Tried again but a third instance, and one item coming up twice. Tried removing this item from News by UK location, but still displaying, if that helps? Have temporarily suspended Community action UK#News and comment, but you can see what the newslist template produces at User:Philralph/sandbox2, Philralph (talk) 10:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! This is probably an issue with outdated semantic data lingering in the database. I'll try to do a full refresh of the data this week, but let me know if it happens to fix itself before! Sophivorus (talk) 13:00, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Multiple listing of same items also found on Housing UK news, Scotland news, and Glasgow community action, plus maybe others not yet discovered? Philralph (talk) 12:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Finding others: Wales news, Barcelona news, California news, US news, Climate news all the examples from when a location removed or changed, Philralph (talk) 15:19, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! Sorry again for the delay but I think it's fixed now. Let me know of any more issues! Sophivorus (talk) 13:17, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus Fantastic! From a preliminary look all the 2022 stuff looks ok, just one item I tried for 2023: bottom of page on User:Philralph/sandbox2 and Extinction Rebellion is still repeating. Philralph (talk) 14:39, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hm, soon I'll have to regenerate the data again anyway, so it may fix that. Please let me know if more repetitions appear! Sophivorus (talk) 15:01, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, OK, thanks. I'm thinking it'd be good to set up the templates on 'main' pages ie Community action, Welcome to Appropedia and Community action UK using something that doesn't need updating. Are there 'magic words' which will produce / display current month and current year, and if poss limit display to max 5 items? Philralph (talk) 15:20, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi, definitely! I just added a 'limit' parameter to Template:Eventlist. Also check out the available magic words and see what I did here for an example. Let me know if I can be of any help! Sophivorus (talk) 12:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, Thanks, looks good. I'll have a play. Philralph (talk) 15:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, if Template:Newslist could include a 'limit' parameter, which would display the, e.g. 5, most recent items, that'd be perfect. Philralph (talk) 15:00, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Done! Sophivorus (talk) 15:18, 25 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi @Sophivorus, news and event templates seem to have been working as they should for a while now. Thanks for all your help with this. Just one more small thing. Could the 'More Results' button / link be taken off Community action and Community action UK? Thanks Philralph (talk) 09:14, 28 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! Glad it's working ok now. I just removed the "More results" button from both Template:Newslist and Template:Eventlist. Let me know of any more issues or requests! By the way, soon I'll do some updates to the semantic database so there may be a few hours with incomplete results until it finishes. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 12:23, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How to comment/respond, here?[edit | edit source]

Hi! How do I comment/respond to these conversations without editing the previous text? Thanks! StoriesWitha Will (talk) 22:43, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@StoriesWitha Will Hi! There used to be a handy Reply button next to each comment, but the recent software update caused a bug that prevents it from showing. :-( I just reported it here and will try to fix it asap. In the meantime, I'm afraid the only way to reply is to edit the page and manually add your comment after the one you want to reply to. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 12:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by StoriesWitha Will
@StoriesWitha Will I managed to fix it, but please let me know if you notice any bugs, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 19:37, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
False alarm, my "fix" caused crashes to non-logged in users so I had to revert. :-( Sophivorus (talk) 14:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@StoriesWitha Will Now yes, hopefully. Sophivorus (talk) 13:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Possible spam?[edit | edit source]

I've reverted a couple of recent edits from Special:Contributions/Strategicmarket, which looked to me like spam. Noticing a couple of others that someone else might like to review? Thanks Philralph (talk) 13:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Spam indeed. I just reverted the other edits and blocked the account. Sophivorus (talk) 15:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Automatic wikitext standardization[edit | edit source]

Hi! Today I finished developing and deploying the first version of mw:Extension:StandardWikitext, an extension that automatically fixes and standardizes wikitext when saving the page. This has several goals:

  • Fix and avoid messy wikitext
  • Fix and avoid some broken wikitext
  • Simplify regular expression search-and-replace
  • Eliminate OCD editing
  • Bring Appropedia up to a new level of excellence

This extension will silently make changes to the wikitext every time you save a page (in the main namespace), so you may be a bit surprised to see changes you didn't make when looking at your own diffs. However, they shouldn't be problematic or controversial, as I made a special effort to be conservative in the standardization rules and to thoroughly test them. Still, if you notice any bugs or issues, please let me know! Kind regards, Sophivorus (talk) 14:34, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, I'm trying to edit Community involvement UK news/2019 and Community involvement UK news/2011-2016 but keep getting message: "[ZAtEVnd7hAcFeH50tLBGAwAAAAQ] 2023-03-10 14:53:11: Fatal exception of type "Error"" (?)
@Philralph Sorry, fixed. Sophivorus (talk) 15:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, thanks, all seems fine now, Philralph (talk) 15:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Extension:Appropedia[edit | edit source]

Hi! Just wanted to announce that all JavaScript at MediaWiki:Common.js, all CSS at MediaWiki:Common.css, all PHP at LocalSettings.php, and more, has been moved to a custom extension hosted at Appropedia's GitHub repo. The reasons for the move are explained there. I've done a lot of testing and everything looks good to me but let me know if you notice any new bugs. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 13:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is awesome. Thanks so much! Does this mean that all changes to javascript or CSS have to be done at a different place? Emilio (talk) 15:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Emilio Yes, that's the one "downside" in my opinion: changes to JavaScript and CSS should be sent to the Appropedia extension (via a pull request or a direct edit at GitHub) and then "pulled" into Appropedia (by me or anyone with SSH access). However, this extra step also implies better code-review and accountability. Sophivorus (talk) 16:34, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Advocating more of a presence on, and involvement within and across Hylo[edit | edit source]

Hi @Kathy Nativi, @Emilio, @Sophivorus and @PedroK. I've recently been helping The Alternative Global Co-creators network set up groups on Hylo. Whilst looking around I saw the Appropedia group there, and noticed this was created around a year ago.

One of the reasons I advocated Hylo for The Alternative was that it might be described as a values aligned platform. But also looking around more recently I've been finding great discussions and perhaps a more impressive range of groups there. I've particularly enjoyed reading discussions to do with Bioregionalism, but also for example "How do we respond to / engage with ChatGPT?" I'd love to know what you guys think about this. Also do you know for example of any bioregional initiatives in the Majority World?

I notice the group is Public - Anyone can find and see this group & Open - Anyone who can see this group can join, so seems to me a good place to be sharing our news with a probably quite receptive audience? There were 4 members of the group so far, that's with hardly any content yet.

I'd be happy to maybe share some content to the Appropedia group if this would help? But kind of feel it'd be great to have your voices there, and across Hylo. Best wishes, Philralph (talk) 17:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More on Hylo's vision & plans for 2023: "Co-evolving technology and a culture of stewardship: Our plans for Hylo", Clare Politano, Nov 28, 2022, 7 min read, Philralph (talk) 07:11, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Advice request re categories[edit | edit source]

Hi, I've recently setup a new portal page on CASwiki: Community action London (UK), and several spin off pages. It'd be nice to include a map in the portal page, but showing only London UK pages. The present Category:London includes several pages showing on the map in London, Ontario, for example. To do this I thought of changing all the London UK type pages to Category:London UK, but just wanting to check if there might be a better solution? Thanks Philralph (talk) 14:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I just realised that putting in a United Kingdom location parameter in the map template might help, but a lot of the London Boroughs might not locate easily or accurately because the names are sometimes artificial constructs rather than actual place names (?) Philralph (talk) 15:00, 13 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Problem with the rules and request for page topics of interest[edit | edit source]

The following message is for the board of directors, and I do mention an article that Chris Watkins wrote so I would love feedback directly from you, Chris Watkins, if possible.

I really love the vision and purpose of the site. I think it’s really cool to have a wiki dedicated to sustainability, and especially having it be a place that allows original research and how-to’s. I’d love to contribute that kind of material to the site and make new pages for topics that haven’t been covered.

However, I did find some concerning material. On the “Neutral Point of View” page, I found that rule 1 said that Appropedia is not a site for soapboxing. I do understand why this is important, and I have found that many people who use this kind of language have conservative viewpoints and tend to soapbox about it. I have developed a method to both avoid soapboxing and conservatism, however I found some content on other pages that made me feel uncomfortable participating in the project and I imagine others have found the information and felt the same.

I also noticed that on rule 1 it said that current administrations should not be admonished. While I agree that complaining is not helpful in the development of solutions, the only possible way to develop an effective solution is to first identify the problem. It would be really important for people who make pages about solutions to be able to start their page by laying out the problem, including its political causes down to political policies, groups, politicians, and administrations. Governments have a huge responsibility and role in sustainable development.

Rule 1 also said “Use some other site for dissin da man”. I tried looking up the definition of “dissin the man” but could not find anything about it. Could you please explain what it means?

The page on poverty appeared to be soapboxing conservative viewpoints. There was too much to address everything, I’ll highlight the most problematic piece: 

“colonialism has in fact improved the local economy”. Then in response to colonial powers selling people and precious minerals it was said that because the area was not being mined, “ it can hardly be said that they sold anything that wasn't theirs to sell.”

This viewpoint seems to be pro-slavery and justifies murder, forced labor and r@pe for the purpose of stealing resources.

This was written in 2008. I do understand that the world was a little different back then. However I am concerned that since then it has not been removed. I am also curious as to what your current stances are.

I would love to contribute to this site, but do not feel like I can unless: There is a clear statement of disapproval for colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology as all three break the rule of soapboxing and both prevent sustainable development and destabilize developed countries. There is a clear invitation for people to work on sustainable development goals 1, 5, and 16 with a list of pages that there is interest in having information on to break the ice and for people to not have concerns that their work will be rejected for not conforming or catering to conservative ideology.

Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Star

Hi @Star. We didn't reply to this message before, but I wanted to let you know that we created a couple of templates to mark topic pages and original research, asking other readers for any feedback. This is in response to your feedback, so thank you! —Emilio (talk) 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Star and thanks for the message!
Wow, we missed that article when we were cleaning up a few years ago 😱 – thanks for pointing it out. That doesn't represent what Appropedia stands for, or stood for at any point in the past. We will do something about that promptly.
(We had a large number of contributions that didn't align with our values, and we removed a lot of pages and edits afterwards. This should have been a part of that but we missed it. There was a lot of time before that where we were trying to come to an understanding, and in hindsight we would have been more direct and set stronger boundaries.)
Re "soapboxing": I think you understand this, but we don't want this to be a place for political arguments and culture wars. (I recall we also wanted to protect our 501(c)3 status for tax exempt donations in the US.) But we do have values and we do allow for discussing and analysing policies.
So as long as we aren't explicitly attacking or endorsing parties or candidates, it should be fine. And as long as we're generally focusing on actions and policies rather than people and groups. (But other directors or our ED who are more up-to-date on this may want to clarify.)
At the same time I don't feel any need to hide my own involvement in volunteering for environmentally oriented political parties and NVDA (Nonviolent Direct Action) activist groups. (Minor involvements, but just to illustrate the point.) And our user pages I'm more of a personal expression, so there's more leeway there for expressing our own POV.
(Re the definition of “dissin the man” – I understand it as colloquial American English for actively disrespecting/attacking (dissing) authorities. We'd be open to changing the language, which was perhaps never meant to last this long in that exact form. We don't want to seem like we intend to stay silent about policies and actions that go against our values.)
Re colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology – without defining terms and giving a complete, nuanced answer, I'll say that we are not here to defend or make space for any ideology with a history of harm, exploitation and repression.
It's also natural that there will be some political differences here. People to our political left and right, but who we can work with on common ground.
Also, I think most of the real value Appropedia has created so far is in sharing specific technologies and solutions, rather than in broad topic pages. And there isn't a lot of politics to discuss on a page about the specifics of reed bed filtration or a type of photovoltaic cell.
Thanks again! You've prompted an active conversation. And we look forward to learning how you're interested in being involved. --Chriswaterguy (talk) 00:49, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for replying.
Wow! That’s wild so many people put edits like that. It’s unfortunate people put information that goes against the site’s values like that but I can’t say I’m surprised, I’ve heard other organizations struggle with similar issues.
I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16 which I see you have a shortage of pages about. I want to write about both on solutions individuals can work on as well as the systemic changes that would need to happen to realistically achieve the sustainable development goals, I intend to write very specifically and not be broad about it. I absolutely agree that focusing on actions and policies are more important as groups and people often morph, change, and exist in gray areas that can not be judged as good or bad. I intend to write as apolitically as possible, and understand that discussing these topics apolitically will appear leftist to some on the U.S. right, and I will only find common ground with the large majority of the population that is willing to find common ground and not the minority that has demonstrated no interest in doing so. Again I’m sure you agree but am restating as I have met people in the past who misused the idea of common ground.
Please let me know if you can clarify the stance on political topics. I know government restrictions on funding can be a big pain point when it comes to talking politics in nonprofits. I would like to have some clear cut boundaries to guide the pages, and would likely post this on the page so those interested in working on those pages as well know what the expectations are.
A sample we could start off with could be:
-use evidence-based information that can be sourced as much as possible
-discuss the actions and policies of a group or person rather than sharing opinions or arguments. When discussing solutions, again keep it focused on actions and policies. Be as specific as possible.
And then later once I’ve written some more stuff I could provide some examples.
Regarding sustainability, there is plenty of politics to discuss as governments and those in power have a much larger responsibility and impact to implement solutions than what individuals can accomplish, and it must be done urgently considering the stage we are at in climate change and society.
By only focusing on solutions for individuals to work on rather than systemic change, it leads to a situation where meaningful progress is not accomplished and individuals are blamed for not making lifestyle changes when they did not have the ability to do so due to economic conditions they had no control over, and the role and responsibility of corporations and government regarding sustainability is ignored. Years from now when the world is in a much worse place environmentally I have no doubt historians will look back and be disappointed we avoided discussing the realistic solutions necessary to achieve sustainability because people believed there wasn’t much politics to discuss. In addition, sustainability can not be achieved without the full equality, participation, and opportunity of women and the working class.
I was interested in a clear invitation to work on goals 1, 5, and 16 as well as sample topics as there have been many times I have encountered people in the nonprofit realm who spoke politely to keep up reputation and appearances and had no problem undermining the work of both volunteers and employees in their organization, as it is a common symptom of the non-profit industrial complex. If you do not know sample topics off the top of your head I could share some sample topics and you can let me know if it’s something that is in line with the vision of the site. Star (talk) 05:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, @Star, I'm not involved with the board but hope you don't mind if I throw in my 2p's worth.
Although you mention individuals, governments and those in power and systemic change, I'm missing any sense that you see value in the power of, and agency of community action? From my perspective, and many across networks I'm involved with: UK, but also Europe and majority world, seen as very different from "the non-profit industrial complex", or "nonprofit realm", being often networks or loose affiliations rather than organisations, and often hugely under-resourced, in conventional terms compared to the three other 'sectors'.
I set up CASwiki some 19 yrs ago as an attempt to shift the balance even if just a tiny bit. CASwiki is a wiki within a wiki here on Appropedia. So for example CASwiki has a page on 'Social inclusion', which as the intro points out straightaway "used here includes economic inclusion or fairness", and includes just the bare beginnings of some suggested Community Action Projects.
As you mention participation, an issue with the SDGs is the extent to which there was pluralistic enough participation in their design. So they might be seen as more of an institutional agenda rather than a peoples agenda. A peoples agenda might have preferred to name SGD16, as peace, justice and strong communities, for example. Best wishes Philralph (talk) 12:37, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I do believe community action is important. I have tried and been unable to gain traction for multiple community action projects in my area so I understand being under-resourced first-hand. Even though I am no longer doing work in that area I have interest in sharing resources for those that do have interest, including personalized community action project ideas and referrals to existing projects specific to each SDG, especially since a big struggle regarding being under resourced is poor advertizing, as people who want to help rarely reach organizations designed to do so. Thank you for sharing CASwiki, it looks closer to the type of work I am interested in.
A people's agenda would have preferred tangible action opposed to hyper-focusing on language, doing the later is one of the manifestations of the non-profit industrial complex, as well as one of the key points in the CIA's Simple Sabotoge Field Manual, A Timeless Guide to Subverting Any Organization with "Purposeful Stupidity" (1944).
Out of the over 160 SDG sub-goals, many address strong communities so arguing that a word in a title should have been changed is a waste of time. Any additional language that does not meet standards of perfection is canceled by the basic and specific concepts of human rights and sustainability.
Again, I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16, with information on systemic change and what organizations and individuals can do. Please let me know what the boundaries are regarding topics and political information. I would also love to discuss the boundaries of CASwiki regarding where information should be added directly versus linked. Thank you. Star (talk) 02:22, 13 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, @Star, it's interesting how language can sometimes perhaps, even if inadvertently, divide. For example I don't think I'm understanding your use of the word 'advertising'? But I'm still inclined to think strong communities have a role to play in helping people who want to help find the opportunities to do so, especially when at least some of them might exist within the agency of the community itself.
Of course many of us might wish for "tangible action", but if you're suggesting that that and a concern for language are mutually exclusive, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I do think wording and language is important because of the way it affects the distribution of resources and so either reinforces or challenges existing power imbalances.
Talking of manifestations, surely one of the biggest wins for the beneficiaries of existing power imbalances, is when any of us chooses to give our emotional energy to that which might divide us rather than that which we have in common? Of course there's no attachment to the idea of perfection in language, and we need to feel free to challenge each other from time to time, but we can do so in ways which feel respectful to both parties however much we may have an attachment to the idea of plain speaking.
That's enough for one post. How are we doing with regard to the above? Any problems with any of that? Philralph (talk) 11:16, 13 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The reply button is being buggy. This is Star. I was not suggesting that tangible action and language is mutually exclusive, but rather that you focus on it in a manner that resembles the sabotage of tangible action. 
I have a problem with the fact that you doubled down on your hyperfocus of the title instead of asking which of the over 160 SDG goals relate to community action or doing the research yourself. I do have a problem with the fact that you did not respond to my request for informational boundaries regarding political information and where information would be best located, which I have asked for three times at this point. 
Division is a very small win for existing power imbalances in comparison to neglect. I am bothered that this site has existed for as long as it has, yet is so undeveloped. Considering how many people care deeply about sustainability, it is strange to me how empty this site appears. If someone could please explain that, it would help a lot. I feel like respect is an arbitrary cultural standard that is often at odds with both what is morally right and the dismantling of power imbalances. Regarding both parties feeling respected, I feel disrespected that this planet is dying, as well as millions of people, this sustainability project has significant portions of undeveloped content, and you are asking me to agree with your criticism of a title of a work of which you have not analyzed the contents. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Star, 19:00, 13 May 2023

Possible development of event templates[edit | edit source]

Hi @Sophivorus, I've been thinking about how to make more and better use of the event templates: Template:Event and Template:Eventlist. The basic design seems to work quite well, but it'd be cool to be able to display an area's events within a context of events for other areas, (Cosmolocal calendars?).

A simple example / mock up here User:Philralph/sandbox displays the local (only) dates in bold (in this case the UK). More complex examples would include a city plus national plus international events. The display on Community action London currently is of one London event, plus other UK events. I'd guess up to 5 areas (displayed) would allow a lot of flexibility, so for example a local area, it's city, region, country and international, but also the possibility of a local area and up to 4 other neighbouring or nearby communities.

Then there'd be a need to identify/display the different locations in a combined list, maybe something like

  • Local event (dates in bold)
  • City event, (London)
  • National event (UK)
  • (all others) International days, etc.

I'm only just starting on this, so might not be able to test things out very much for a while. Probably test out event listings for near me to start with. And/or have the context/other areas display switchable, on or off? What do you think? Cheers, Philralph (talk) 07:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, I'm now preferring a much clearer design using existing templates, so nothing further needed, thanks. Examples at Malling, London and UK, Philralph (talk) 08:03, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! It looks super neat, good solution! I'm glad you managed it, and sorry I wasn't able to help on time. Let me know of any further issues or requests and I'll try to do better, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 11:59, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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