This is an archive, and should not be edited. If you want to continue a conversation, you may copy the relevant bits to my talk page and continue the discussion there.

Comments appear in the order that they were archived, not the order that they were originally posted.

June 2006 to February 2007

Hi Singkong

Thank you for your very thoughtful contributions so far. I am very impressed by your sound thought, intention and technical ability (and recipes). Are you interested in being an administrator on appropedia? I am not sure when that will help what you do here, but I definitely would like to remove any obstacles to your input. --Lonny 22:54, 30 June 2006 (PDT)

Welcome to adminship. --ATSysop 02:36, 1 July 2006 (PDT)

Thanks for the interwiki link tips!

I assume that was prompted by all the external links I added to the ruleset page. I looked at the interwiki help for some guidance as to how to use an interwiki link with an explanatory text, but could not find it. Maybe it doesn't work? In the Ruleset, there may be a couple cases where "Wikipedia:xxxx" would be acceptable, but several others where it doesn't work. I didn't like the external links when I was done. It occurred to me at that point that the better result would be to revert back to the original with deadend links, then go create those pages, stealing (with pride) from the content on Wikipedia. (If that's allowed, in which case I guess it ain't stealing.) Opinions? ["Steal with pride" was a commonly used phrase within Intel about 8 years back, for some reason.]

FYI, I plan to speak live on the phone (what'll they think of next?) with Lonny this Friday morning. Maybe you and I could talk later on my Friday / your Saturday morning? I can imagine a weekly or biweekly call being pretty productive. After all, you've got a greenhorn here. --Curtbeckmann 22:28, 13 September 2006 (PDT)

Fixing Math

Thanks for fixing the parsing error from the math code on my talk page. --Lonny 10:53, 23 October 2006 (PDT)

Working at cross purposes?

Hi Chris, I created the Appropedia:Categorization page before noticing Help:Categories. When I saw the latter, I copied all of the former into the help page, intending to remove the Appro:Catzn page later. I was going to remove Appro:Catzn, then noticed that you (I think it was you) linked to it from Cat:Cats. So my question is, do you think it is appropriate to include Appro:Catzn into Help:Cats? Or should they be kept as separate pages? As you can tell, I'm inclined to merge them, and drop the Appro:Catzn page. --CurtB 07:37, 15 November 2006 (PST)

I think merging is a good idea - didn't mean to step on your toes! Some of the information about how categorization works is a bit out of date, but as we haven't resolve exactly how it does work, I'm not worrying about updating it just yet. --Singkong2005 · talk 15:41, 15 November 2006 (PST)


Hey Chris, send me email at re: wikigreen and I will fill you in on what we are doing. I would like to talk more about what we could do together.


Contact from

Hi Chris,

Just received your post on - would be interested in discussing further! Could you drop me a mail at info[at]

Thanks, Tom [25 Jan 2007)

Rainwater Harvesting and Blogging

Please feel free to move your personal blog here. I think that appropedia should serve as a blog space and social networking site (more on that later) for those working towards change.

I hope you don't mind but I googled you. And found your work on Vadgam rainwater catchement. I have had some success using wikipedia:Ferrocement rainwater harvesting with little noticeable taste. Here are some links you may find useful... I should probably add some of these to appropedia and wikipedia accordingly. It looks like the ferrocement page at wikipedia could use some help.
The documents seem to be missing right now... but should be up soon I hope.
In this urban Zambia project they picked ferrocement as the most cost effective.
Nice 24 page rainwater harvesting document from Practical Action. Inculdes ferrocement tanks.
The Ajit Foundation, Scientific Resource Centre, Jaipur
SimTanka: software tool for rainwater harvesting performance modeling. This software has meet some common international development problems, read more about it at the link.
Jal-Chitra: software tool to create an interactive water map of a village.

In addition, the great and short documentary A Quiet Revolution has a piece about a village in India digging rainwater harvesting swails for ground water recharging. I believe there is a viewable movie at that site, but if not I can put it on a server for you. I am emailing the producers to ask for what they think about hosting the video on google video or the such.

I think I have some homemade movies on ferrocement as well. Please let me know if you are interested.

I posted those videos and a rough powerpoint with some photos to the password protected These files are very unedited and unprofessional, but they are hopefully somewhat educational. This project was only the second time this person ever built a ferrocement tank, but the first time was very successful. I emailed you the password. Please ask before sharing these files as I need to get written permission from the author (I have verbal permission). In addition, I will be asking the author to make an appropedia page on this process and to fix up the videos, which I will then put on Google Video. --Lonny 18:49, 4 July 2006 (PDT)

From the appropedia html sister site

(mentioned here just for fun)
Whimsical page about at home rainwater harvesting with ferrocement (this system is not for drinking).
The system is small and uncovered and the pictures are oversized. But still fun.
Plastic tank rainwater harvesting for a Community Resource Center in an effort to water a community garden that would help span the cultural gap between the Latino and Anglo members of their community.

Hmm... Sorry if none of that is usefull, I just got a little excited about the project. --Lonny 22:54, 30 June 2006 (PDT)

I want your thesis paper, plus blog thoughts

Hi Chris! Just came across Water_management_and_culture_in_Indonesian_cities, and I'd love to read it! Seems like a book-sized topic... I almost encouraged you to write a book, but 2 things stopped me. First, I'm sure you'd have to give up Appropedia, and second, the content probably belongs in Appropedia. :-)

The blog thought is related to Lonny's comment earlier that suggests blogging in Appropedia. My opinion is that blogging on a wiki is a strain. Good blogging sites have several advantages: each blog post can have it's own semi-permanent link (which you could do on a wiki, but there would be a fair amount of overhead to accomplish it), and blog sites help you be visible in blog searches, which is half (or more) of the point of blogging! At least for me. So I'm still interested in joining forces in blogland. I think we could very easily experiment if you create an account at Let me know. --Curtbeckmann 15:11, 17 September 2006 (PDT)

I want to check through my thesis before posting, in case there's formatting issues etc... And I need to take a wikibreak for a few days, as I have much to do. I'll check back in a few days and see what's been happening, especially re some of the questions at the Village pump.
I agree re blogging - will attend to this soon.
Missed your chat message a few minutes ago - I was in a different browser window and didn't see. --Singkong2005 talk 20:57, 17 September 2006 (PDT)
Sounds like a good decision. Blogging will not be encouraged on Appropedia, but encouraged and linked to off site in blogland. --Lonny 10:50, 18 September 2006 (PDT)
Yep, still interested in co-blogging! I'll go poke around about how to invite you onto the team. Hope that personal friend situation works out...kind of missing you. By the way, your picture at seems perfectly good for the short term. --Curtbeckmann 14:13, 7 October 2006 (PDT)

Nudge, nudge

Hi, Chris. I nagged Lonny so only fair I nag you too. Please prioritize some attention on the vision / mission effort :-) Thanks, --CurtB 12:41, 9 November 2006 (PST)

Yes, keep meaning to, but getting distracted. A bit of promo would be much more strategic... --Singkong2005 · talk 15:43, 9 November 2006 (PST)

Reminder: strategic

  • Vision / Mission
  • Worldchanging
I'm trying to focus on my CV/jobs stuff at the moment... but in the process of looking, and networking, I keep finding stuff to put on Appropedia. That explains my recent activity. Will try to get to the WorldChanging stuff soon. Have been thinking about it though (e.g. plan of attack, leaving some really good stuff out e.g. re porting, so that there's enough to justify a second article at a later stage.)
Of course we can always comment there, too, if we have something on Appropedia relevant to a WorldChanging article - and it can be motivation to create the article. --Singkong2005 · talk 16:46, 15 November 2006 (PST)
No problems. I'm a believer in the squeaky wheels theory. I notice you're active, which means you must have a bit of time, and just want to nudge/nag to be sure you're thinking of the strategic stuff as well (mostly because you mentioned an interest... if you hadn't I wouldn't bother you about it). As for the next submission to WC, I figure we can't even imagine the great newsworthy things that will come in the next 3 months. I believe a big "hockey stick" is just beginning. One thing I'd really like is see more porting helpers... I'm beginning to find more content and can well imagine a strategy where those of us with an eye for good material spend time finding it (and getting permission to republish), and, in parallel, people with good editing skills spend the time porting it. But if I was really thinking that strategically, I'd have tweaked the main page to try to capture more porting helpers! --CurtB 17:28, 15 November 2006 (PST)
Any news on a Worldchanging submission? Were we both waiting for each other? You mentioned recently that you're going to be busy on other stuff... Would you like me to take the lead on this submission? --CurtB 14:05, 4 December 2006 (PST)
Will try and make some time for it tonight, about 8-9 hours from now. --Singkong2005 · talk 19:07, 4 December 2006 (PST)
Dealing with a bit of an urgent matter, should be managed soon, will try to get to this by Friday. I want to allow for an hour or two to focus on this WorldChanging promo thing before sending it. --Singkong2005 · talk 05:24, 6 December 2006 (PST)
Ahem. Avoidance-detection circuit has lit up. Not sure this is a 2 hour problem, but if it is, the only way to get there is to give it priority. Sorry to be a nag, happy to simply take it off your list if you prefer. --CurtB 07:38, 9 December 2006 (PST)
Working on it tonight... I spent 15 minutes on it last night, and it looked pretty close, then I had a computer crash and lost it :(. Re avoidance, fair call. I decided earlier today to not look at anything else on Appropedia till I've attended to this. --Singkong2005 · talk 02:16, 10 December 2006 (PST)
This Worldchanging submission is looking pretty close. Awesome work. BTW I use sessionmanager and Firefox, that way when my computer crashes my windows, tabs and unsaved text data are usually recovered. Thank you for your superb activity here, --Lonny 22:34, 10 December 2006 (PST)
Thanks, Chris. Of course, your responsiveness only encourages my pest behavior :-) BTW, Lonny found that a (somewhat late) comment on Worldchanging resulted in 8 short term hits. I'm very pumped about what an actual article could do! Let me know if there's anything (final check, whatever) that you want from me. I'm also fine if you're happy and want to simply shoot it off! --CurtB 06:56, 11 December 2006 (PST)
Actually, I just read it through again, and it looks great! The editors at Worldchanging are going to put their fingerprints on it anyway, so unless there is some big wart that you can see, I would say it's ready for submission! --CurtB 07:02, 11 December 2006 (PST)
Yep, it's not bad... I'm still not quite satisfied. See the Submission guidelines, esp:
3) Pithy Writing... we aim for short recommendations, no more than three paragraphs (some things take longer to explain, and sometimes you'll want to review several related items in one recommendation, but the denser and pithier the writing, the better)...
4) Excerpts... a great excerpt illustrates the nature of the resource you're recommending and also provides an interesting thought or crucial bit of information for the casual reader who won't follow the link. Cherry-pick, in other words: pull the best quotes from the resource as excerpts in your recommendation.
I've made it pithier, but adding some very brief examples of content would be good. Unfortunately I'm going to have trouble spending much time on a computer in the next 2 or 3 days, so if you guys want to make a final judgement and send it in, I'm cool with that. --Singkong2005 · talk 06:04, 12 December 2006 (PST)

Your Question about Coordination pages

Hi Chris,

Regarding your question about coordination pages, such as J Point Donations. I think that we should make a Template:Infobox_Coordination similar to the Template:Infobox_Project that we are developing for project pages. This Coordination Infobox could contain the orgainzaiton name (but this may put extra work on, and neccesitate more wikiknowledge of, the page creator), or the template could just say, "Hey this is a coordination page....". I am also looking at ways (using hooks or bots) to automatically put this type of static infobox on any page with a specific category, such as Category:Coordination. Another idea is to have Coordination pages located at Your organization name/Collaboration name in order to make it clear what the collaboration is part of, and to leave room in the root level article namespace. --Lonny 11:38, 8 December 2006 (PST)

I did see your comments from Dec 8

Hi Chris. I did see your comments from 12/8 at the "porting/Titles of documents" section. But I (obviously :-) didn't reply. I have been acting in accordance (I believe) and didn't have much else to say, but I should have acknowledged your input. I've also been too busy protecting original pages (wanted to finish that), and haven't created the editable pages yet. (I did take a moment to port a couple more pages...we were at 199 for a couple days and it was bugging me...then we were at 200 and that was almost worse...made it look "approximate".) I plan to make editable pages for the "how to" type docs... I'm still sort of pondering the ported project page question.

By the "ported project page question" are you referring to Appropedia:Porting pages, or the title question, or something else? Let me know if there's a specific question you want input on. --Singkong2005 · talk 15:05, 13 December 2006 (PST)

I've also been spending some energy around the Topic categorization happiness. I like my new table approach. Perhaps you've commented on that (I haven't checked as I write this). I feel fairly strongly that things like "Adobe" should not be categorized directly as topics, but should be under earthen construction under alternative construction.

Strongly agree. I hadn't noticed this work (haven't been watching so closely the last week or so) - I'd had some similar thoughts, and Lonny & I had discussed related issues in the past, but not reached a clear resolution, I think (or I didn't quite understand Lonny's vision). I didn't want to change things if I was the only one who thought that way. --Singkong2005 · talk 15:05, 13 December 2006 (PST)
Just checked Category:Fundamental & Category:Topics - still looks inconsistent. Last time I looked, I was unclear about how we wanted to deal with this, so I didn't fix up too much. My strong feeling is that categoriess like Appropriate technology & Electricity belong in Topic, whereas cats like How to, Resources, Issues, Organization and Program belong in Fundamental. Not sure about Countries - probably in Topic. How does that sound?
I still favor plural forms for categories (e.g. Category:Topics) - but we haven't reached consensus on this yet. It's worth deciding this before doing lots of edits to cat tags. --Singkong2005 · talk 15:58, 13 December 2006 (PST)

Putting it another way, since this topic stuff is meant to aid in navigation, if a subject is listed at the topic level, it should not need to appear again lower in the structure. Regarding topics that "sit on the fence" between two (sometimes 3?) topic subcategories, I believe that those topics should be categorized in all relevant subtopics.

Agreed, again. --Singkong2005 · talk 15:05, 13 December 2006 (PST)

On a different note, the site is really rocking. Users and hits and pages are all growing nicely. Lots of infrastructure looks pretty good. (The topic stuff has been bugging me for a long time, hence my recent focus.) Hopefully WC submission causes some big boost. --CurtB 06:41, 13 December 2006 (PST)

Yep - I'm excited about it. Your work and enthusiasm has been a big part of this growth - kudos. --Singkong2005 · talk 15:05, 13 December 2006 (PST)
Thank you and serious kudos are due to you as well. Lonny deserves it, perhaps more because a lot of his work doesn't show up on "recent changes". I'm thinking of some promotional stuff (which we both do, of course) but also all the analytics. But, hey, founders aren't supposed to need encouragement, right? In addition to the earlybirds, I'm very impressed with several new users really kicking butt.
One cool thing is how the natural interests tend to overlap somewhat, but not too much, which leads to pretty good coverage. For example, you invest way more in templates, which I benefit from though I'm more passive there. O would say I fuss more about strategic (wonder what's gonna happen with Mission/Vision?), which probably has some benefits, but you can't spend your whole life there :-) Hope the WC thing comes through. I kinda wish I'd added something like a cover letter, saying stuff that we didn't want published, but which nevertheless justified the new article. I'm thinking "look, those other wikis have pretty much died...; look at the stats and you can see that Appropedia is doing the hockey stick thing and the concept can really leap with a bit of awareness" I've been pondering sending a followup with that basic content. What the hey, there are real humans reading this stuff and making decisions... --CurtB 16:44, 14 December 2006 (PST)

Living space, culture

Hi Chris, You moved "cities" and "alternative building" under "living space". I'm struggling with that because several things under "alternative building" are not living space (ovens, greenhouses, etc), and I think cities aligns a little better with "culture and development". Before getting into a reversion war (not like that's really gonna happen with us) I thought we'd have a chat. What do you say?

Hi Curt. Well spotted. How's "Built environment"? Still not quite right for ovens etc, but closer. Other thoughts, or do we put them both in the Topic cat? --Singkong2005 · talk 06:00, 15 December 2006 (PST)

While I'm at it, I'm tempted to move "culture and development" plus "culture and community" under "culture". There are some subcategories that seem to overlap, e.g. Male contraceptives seems to go either way. (It's close to the "gender and development" article or category.)

Hmmm... I don't know what to make of Category:Culture and community , as it currently has no content - I'd be inclined to wait for the content to make decisions relating to that cat. Anyway, I'm happy if you play around with categorization. --Singkong2005 · talk 06:00, 15 December 2006 (PST)

All this stuff is a judgement call, of course. The "right" answer for me is whatever is likely to make for easier navigation. I don't know if you've written much software, but there is this concept of "balanced trees". I'd love it if categories broke out nicely into 10 to 15 subcategories and/or 10 to 15 articles. Just a few layers gets lots of content :-) But this must be traded off against some kind of "natural" (i.e. intuitive) structure as well.

I think we should wrestle with this topic categorization a little aggressively now (similar to the singular/plural argument) since it will be harder later. It'll be case by case, I expect, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong.

By the way, I noticed a category called "issues", which currently holds two articles that also appear under another category (forget at the mo'). There are also "Appropriate technology" and (empty) "Sustainable development" categories, which could easily be tucked under "issues", IMHO.

Good idea. --Singkong2005 · talk 06:00, 15 December 2006 (PST)

I think "issues" is very interesting. I kind of think of it as a "public policy" but that suggest government, and "policy" by itself sounds like Appropedia policy, so I come back to "issues". I think topic has evolved into "subject", whereas "issues" may capture what Lonny was initially thinking of with Topics, i.e. discourse. What other words could be used for an "issues" category (which may deserve listing on the nav page)? Maybe "debate", "rhetoric", "opinion", "controversy", "argument", "analysis". Some combo could work well, like "Issues and analysis", or maybe "Issue discussions", or "Discussions and analysis" or "editorials" or "Op-Ed"... Damn! Anyway, there is a category that is not yet well developed.

Yeah. Issues seems okay to me though, so I'm happy to leave it till as that, and change it if and when there's a light bulb moment of inspiration. --Singkong2005 · talk 06:00, 15 December 2006 (PST)
I forgot to mention why I didn't like "issues" by itself. Perhaps the nuances in Australia are different than here, but "Issues" as a single word has so many meanings (like problems, possibly construed as "bugs", as well as Issues of a periodical, etc). One of the meanings is exactly the one we want, but for me, without context, that correct meaning doesn't leap out. And that's why I was tacking on another word. As long as the new word doesn't make things worse, it seems like it can add clarity. If none of the above work, then perhaps "Issues forum"... Well, no rush. There aren't many articles yet. (Note, I will comment on the WP template talk page in a mo'.)--CurtB 07:56, 15 December 2006 (PST)
As Giles said of Buffy, "I believe she is having what you Americans refer to as issues." :) I'm cool with a change - I like Lonny's idea (via email) of putting theses and well thought out opinions into one category, but I don't have bright ideas on a category name. --Singkong2005 · talk 19:15, 18 December 2006 (PST)

I'd like to read your thesis

Would that be possible?

responded to Nardoo at User_talk:Nardoo, and exchanged emails. Welcome to another EWB Australia member.

Environmental Justice

Actually, The category had already existed in the list in the Category Topic, and I (not fully consciously) went to create a page there. Later, I realized that maybe one wasn't needed, so I'd already started an email to Lonny about it, to say that, and to ask if Categories necessarily needed pages to explain them? Are they okay empty? If not it can be deleted.. -@

If we want to keep the category, we should create the page, even if it only contains a higher category or categories. Otherwise, when someone views the category, they'll get an edit box; also it won't fit into the category structure.
I'm not sure exactly what categories are best for the article, but I'm happy to let it evolve.
Cool blog. You could put the link in your signature, in preferences. Click preferences, select raw signature, and enter your new sig, e.g.
[[User:Ajay|Ajay]] [ @] - which gives Ajay @
[[User:Ajay|Ajay]] <small>[ blog]</small> - which gives Ajay blog
Or something like that. That'll show when you sign with four tildes, ~~~~. --Singkong2005 · talk 00:44, 2 January 2007 (PST)
Thanks for the prompt replies and good thoughts! I'm kind of new to wiki'ing, as you can tell.. :) As for the categories, I stole them (and the stubs, which of course don't exist and you definitely noticed) from the wikipedia EJ entry. I changed the headings to Climate Change part of the Exploring section, but we'll go with this for now. (The 'searching on google' was just the first fruits of my search, figured it would make a good starting stub..)
Don't worry about being new to wikiing... you're making great contributions, and it's great to have you in our community! --Singkong2005 · talk 01:54, 2 January 2007 (PST)

Solar thermal...

Hi Chris. I guess it was me who changed categories, but I only vaguely remember this. I actually agree with your naming preference; I think I was doing it in following the naming listed in the topics page (or something). I was just trying to push for consistency. And it must have been early in the process when I was still optimistic that by following the topic page, I would achieve consistency.

At this point, my plan is to make another major pass through categorization, particularly topic categorization. I'll follow Lonny's preferences. Not much consensus has developed, as far as I can tell (*sigh*), but can't just let it sit, and I know Lonny prefers what he described. I really would like to see another area label (or 2 or 3). Also am somewhat unsettled as to what content belongs on the category page itself. (This last issue is potentially enough to make me wait... but I doubt it.) --CurtB 07:05, 8 January 2007 (PST)

My understanding was that:
  • Lonny was pretty much okay with plurals for countable nouns, but was waiting for a summary of the naming policy before giving his full support.
  • I was supposed to look at your proposed naming policy (User talk:Curtbeckmann/Category naming) but haven't yet. I have a partial excuse, in that I had the page as one of my Opera startup windows, to be looked at, but then had a major computer failure (HDD survived, thankfully) which distracted me... and I'm easily distracted.
I'm also wondering whether it's possible for MediaWiki to be tweaked to allow category pages to be moved, together with their history. That would be a huge improvement, especially in these early unsettled days of categorization. I suspect Lonny has already asked this question, but I'll ask him again (and Gabe) via email.
Will try and comment on User talk:Curtbeckmann/Category naming soon - feel free to prod. --Singkong2005 · talk 20:32, 8 January 2007 (PST)
I'm curious what your main interest is in preserving history? Potentially, we can "move" the categories using cut/paste, but keep the old categories, potentially in a category called "Old categories" (with a notice template), plus put (in non-displayed comments) a pointer from the new category to the old category. What this would do is provide a "behind the scenes" linkage to the original history. I think that very few folks are interested in the early history, so this approach might work. A thin spot occurs when someone wants to re-use a category, but that's even workable, because the history is still there, it's just confusing. So our notice template could include the original date, or some durn thing.
Of course, this is a hell of a lot of work that wouldn't be necessary if we could move categories! But I mention this because, knowing how swamped Gabe and Lonny are, I suspect I'm going to get busy moving categories before we even get an answer. If there's a way I can do it that gives you what you are looking for, then I'll do it that way. --CurtB 21:51, 8 January 2007 (PST)


Hey Chris, your user page shows the "new blog" as being the Chriswaterguy@blogspot... Also shows the Resolution blog (which I should probably drop you from just so as not to confuse visitors). Didn't notice LiveJournal there. May want an update on your page. CurtB 13:04, 15 February 2007 (PST)

Thanks! -Chriswaterguy · talk 14:31, 15 February 2007 (PST)

Testing pipes

Does it notice this edit? --Chriswaterguy · talk 22:42, 21 February 2007 (PST)

Okay, now you've got me curious. What's this about? --CurtB 06:42, 22 February 2007 (PST)
Trying out Yahoo Pipes... will email shortly. --Chriswaterguy · talk 19:05, 22 February 2007 (PST)

March 2007 to early Jan 2007


Yes, with respect to WaterWiki we should find ways to cooperate. The great crisis regarding water is to a great extent tied to inappropriate (or non-existent) water management. Fred Bauder 06:17, 9 March 2007 (PST)

Greenlivingpedia interwiki

Chris, it was good to have a chat earlier this week. I have added Appropedia to the Interwiki table on Greenlivingpedia and put in some direct Interwikis, and added Appropedia as a sidebar link too. Keep up the good work --Peter Campbell 05:59, 15 March 2007 (PDT)

I have searched Appropedia for housing-related content and can't find much apart from the Oregon cottage article. There are no categories relating to sustainable housing yet.
There's Category:Alternative building - but I think that so far we only have techniques and examples suitable for certain developing world situations, and for radical downshifters (aka sandal wearing hippies). Your focus is very welcome, but We'll have to think about how it all fits in - perhaps Alternative building should be a subcat of Category:Sustainable buildings (while still remaining as a subcat of Category:Construction and materials)? (I was going to say Category:Sustainable housing, but we need a cat that will capture other types of building as well.)
Btw I'd like to see a lot more on very low cost options suitable for Western countries (as well as the Majority World) e.g. Prefabricated buildings, but we've got little info so far. The Open Architecture Network no doubt has or will have material like that, before long. --Chriswaterguy · talk 16:00, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
Also, I couldn't find a links page or directory. I was wondering where it would be best to add a link to Greenlivingpedia - or perhaps just the Greenlivingpedia:List of sustainable houses article. What do you think the best way to proceed is? Peter Campbell 04:10, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
We should add it to the WikiNode... perhaps it should be renamed, or links should redirect there.
I'll ask User:Curtbeckmann & User:Lonny to join this conversation. --Chriswaterguy · talk 16:00, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
What pops into my head is a need for clarification between the content at Appropedia, GreenLivingpedia, and Open Architecture Network (aka OAN, which I am personally committed to partnering with, and anyway I would not recommend competing with). I'm pretty sure that OAN will include alternative building techniques and designs. But probably not lifestyles. And it appears that they are not going to include a wiki, but there's a fair chance that their partner wiki of choice could be Appropedia, if we play our cards right. With all that, it seems a delicate act to separate out the content. Now, I agree that Appropedia does not currently have a lot of that kind of content, but we have some content, and I believe we want that category to grow. (And would love to integrate GLp, of course, in part to help us get the yet-to-be-achieved critical mass for explosive growth!) I would really think that a top quality portal for GreenLiving could help focus on that....No? Ah, well, I can hope...--CurtB 21:52, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
OAN seems more for professional architects & designers, submitting completed designs; it includes ratings and social networking. It's less suitable for collaboration than is a wiki.
Greenlivingpedia and Appropedia I think would do best by merging, once we deal with very valid concerns expressed by Peter during a phone conversation., particularly that our front page looks more like a site for alternative technology buffs, rather than something to appeal to ordinary people who want to do something positive. IMO the solution to this has a few aspects, including:
  1. Make a category for Category:Sustainable building
  2. Make a category portal for Category:Sustainable building. This could be based on Greenlivingpedia's current home page, with an additional reference to alternative building. This portal could be a "landing page" for linking our sustainability material (from other sites, and/or the main page, and/or the target of redirects such as sustainable housing). It could also be the landing page for a redirect from Greenlivingpedia, if a merger does happen at some stage.
  3. Modify our main page - though this depends on having content to highlight.
  4. If and when Peter is satisfied (along with any other fellow Greenlivingpedians with a stake in it) we can look at a merger.
  5. Continue to think about alternative names.
Btw, the name page is quite out of date, so we should perhaps start it up again, throwing ideas around involving openness, collaboration, world changing, practical solutions... --Chriswaterguy · talk 22:15, 16 March 2007 (PDT)
I added some ":" :-), and I'm curious about "This portal could be a landing page for..."
Thanks - I was being absentminded again... --Chriswaterguy · talk 06:27, 17 March 2007 (PDT)
But generally, I agree completely. Yes, of course OAN does not provide a wiki; I tried to make that point. I see the name as much less of a barrier. I think we could also keep the name and also use new names with redirects to Excellent Portals, as suggested above. So, improve the mainpage (perhaps with an increased focus on sustainability with or without AT), add good portals, use other good names with redirects. And more. Peter is in a good bargaining position :-) And anyway he probably has good perspective and ideas. --CurtB 22:25, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Note from George

Hi Chris, This is Georgedappilly. Saw the talk page opened for me. Thank you very much. No problem in changing the name GEM Technology to G E M Method or G E M Method for mosquito control. Please tell me how to do that & where all? I had entered similar text in User:Georgedappilly talk page also.

Sustainable-IT @ Wikia

Hi Chris, I'm amenable to a merge of with Appropedia, probably after I've taken some time to gauge interest from my various contacts, etc. I'm impressed by Appropedia, but desire a more commercial and technical angle for attracting contributors to Sustainable-IT, including the potential for protected papers, specs and other material. BTW, I'm located in Sydney. Dhart 20:45, 27 March 2007 (PDT)

Very cool! A more commercial and technical angle would certainly be welcome on Appropedia - we have had some input at Sun Frost energy efficient shower and probably elsewhere as well, but more would be great.
Peter Campbell has made comments about appealing to less hippie/geeky people, which I think are spot on and am taking seriously re the logo, main page and multiple landing pages. Other suggestions along that line are most welcome. --Chriswaterguy · talk 21:00, 27 March 2007 (PDT)

Relationship with solaroven wiki?

I'm glad hexayurt found a home in your place.

I'm sure you've seen right?

When shall we see a conference of howtowikis? We want them translated or co-created into/with many languages too! contact me?


Hi Chris, Saw Georgedappilly talk page & mails. Great! The space at the beginning of line was accidental initially but I felt HE made it. Thats why it came at the right place! Initially it was single line. Now I think let it be there. So broke it & added blank at beginning.

About the bullets, I wanted to do it but hesitated for fear of page size. Very very glad that you have done that.

Tried upload many times & failed. file is in JPEG format only. May be some problem with some options not being selected properly. Will go thru help once again & then try.

Will give the links to my friends after uploading the pictures. I thought that would be better.

From Baron

Thanks for the Tip.

I'm not sure which route to take I'm just writing what I think should be written. Baron 20:44, 2 April 2007 (PDT)


Hi Chris, thanks for your comments, I look forward to helping contribute to appropedia. -- 00:57, 18 April 2007 (PDT)

I'm not sure who you are, but you're welcome, and looking forward to working together! --Chriswaterguy · talk 06:44, 20 April 2007 (PDT)
Ah, Vortexrealm (I only just thought to check the IP address's contributions).
Very much look forward to your contributions - you've proven yourself a very knowledgeable and constructive contributor on Wikipedia. --Chriswaterguy · talk 05:08, 3 January 2008 (PST)


Hi Chris, Thanks for the positive comment. The object on the right side of the first image is the top of a foundain pen included for size indication. This is a usual practice while photographing small objects for technicial/scientific purposes. Thought it may be helpful for some one! 20 April 07 1410 Hrs IST


Thanks Chris -- I added a bit to the industrial symbiosis definition - and you definitely hit on the right main source - problem is it is published already -- we need to get the publishing part of appropedia up and running. --Joshua 07:22, 25 April 2007 (PDT)


Saw the edits. It has made the page elegant. Thank you very much. I was not knowing the use of 'frame' option in image link. Was wondering how to manage the blank space adjacent to that image. You taught me now. I haven't tried 'move page' yet. Have some doubts.

1. What will happen to the links to google etc? Will they get modified automatically?

2. When those who have visited this page earlier try to visit again, how will they know about the NEW name? Or will the earlier address take them here?

3. Will the hits counter be reset to zero?

George talk


Thank you for clarifications. The wiki User:Georgedappilly page is deleted by Administrator Alphachimp on 26 April 2007 CSDG 11, SPEEDY DELETION. There are some links to that page in GEMTech page. So tried creating similar page in appro in order to make the material available to users. As the page didn't come up, added the FAQA section to the main page. Today again tried adding material to UserPage. It worked. Now should I move FAQA section to appro UserPage or leave it in main page? What is the preference of users & what would make the page look better?
Shooter talk 08:07, 1 May 2007 (PDT)

Another wiki - on climate change

Chris, this may be of interest re Wikinode: wiki The objective of this site is to provide a gateway or portal to the scientific information that exists elsewhere on conservation of biodiversity with regard to Global Climate Change (Global Warming). --Peter Campbell 15:59, 6 May 2007 (PDT)

This sounds like horshit to me.

What do you think? Baron 22:00, 9 May 2007 (PDT)


Hi Chris, Before moving 'GEM Technology' page one more doubt. Is 'GEM mosquito control" ok? Because, 'GEM method' does not indicate mosquito control, 'GEM method for mosquito control' seems to be large a title. Will 'GEM mosquito control' cause any contradiction or confusion?
Shooter talk 03:43, 13 May 2007 (PDT)


Hi Chris, You wrote:

However, a simple link to a user page or website elsewhere is acceptable, and a link to the GEM technology page might also be fine, I think. Just some info for you in case you wish to re-create your Wikipedia user page at any point.

Sorry I didn't answer your email. I was busy all weekend, and now am getting ready to travel to Indonesia, next week. (Maybe by next year I'll get to India).

I think GEM mosquito control is a great name. And don't worry, it's always easy to move again, if necessary.

Glad to hear that you are visiting India. We will meet here.
GEM Technology page is moved to GEM mosquito control & GEM mosquito control FAQ page is created. All questions are given as sub-sections so that users can jump to any question skpping others.
I have also given links to these pages in wikipedia user page. I do not have a home page; it is not affordable with my megre pension.
Shooter talk11:37, 31 May 2007 (PDT)


Hi Chris,

How are you? Hope & pray fine. Its very long since I visited this page. My brother was here for further treatment. I too was hospitalised for 2 days. I was in ICCU.

Some time back there appeared a banner at the bottom of GEM_mosquito_control page which read 'Based on work by Chris Watkins and anonymous users'. It disturbed me a little. But I was not sure about how to ask you. I went on thinking about that. But after a few days, to my pleasent surprise found that it was modified by somebody to 'Based on work by E.M.George and Chris Watkins'. I felt very happy & that it was a Divine intervention. But unfortunately the same old banner 'Based on work by Chris Watkins and anonymous users of Appropedia' ha re-appeared. I feel you may not be aware of these developments. Could you kindly look into it. I am verymuch thankful for all the help you have extended to my efforts & hope and pray the same will continue.

By the way is it possible to get any details about those who visit the page. So far 714 visits are there! Shooter talk 02:29, 22 July 2007 (PDT)

answered on your talk page. --Chriswaterguy · talk 03:02, 22 July 2007 (PDT)

Appropedia language

- how to share project information from non-English speaking authors

Subject says it all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mberigan, 16:53, 24 July 2007

Hi Mberigan and Chris, I made an initial reply to this great question at Mberigan´s talk page. --Lonny 22:24, 24 July 2007 (PDT)

Mission Semi-Accomplished

Hola Chriswaterguy, I've been asking around town to see how people do their laundry- everyone told me they use a machine for the washing and hang it dry (I'm pretty sure the machines have a spin cycle.) I thought maybe I was stuck in the upper strata of Parras, talking only to the people with a little more money than the rest. THEN we went out to an ejido to do some community service (painting tires with oil based paint on a playground... yummy.) I thought, okay, for sure these folks are handwashing their clothes. One of the houses nearby had a loud electric sound coming from it. (Enter spy music...) An intense investigation ensued. Upon closer inspection we found the source of the noise to be a brand-new looking Maytagish washing machine doin' the deed in the front yard. Nuff said? I'll keep asking for the remainder of my 12 days here.

On the job, Carolina --waterfaery72

Checking in

Hi Chris,

Thanks for tipping me to this site, impressive! :-) To be redundant, check out Kivapedia for a related wiki. Also, have you seen The Elders site yet? I'm sure you could make quite an impact there as well! :-) Regards, RichardF 07:49, 31 July 2007 (PDT)

Greetings from Mel

Hey Chris! Typing from Herbert's office in Taipei on my last day in the city. It was great to meet you at Wikimania, and I'm looking forward to meeting the other Appropedians on IRC this Saturday. (You need to visit Boston sometime.)

If you ever stop by the Philippines, you'll have to check these folks out: - potential great org to work with / work for / volunteer with especially for more architecture/urban-planning/community development oriented folks. In a nutshell, they work with slum communities to build their own towns (literally; the villagers rip down the tin shanties and make brick dwellings with plumbing and electricity, and a school and clinic) and help them design & implement a governance structure for their new village. It's incredible.

Mchua 23:15, 5 August 2007 (PDT)

Your input needed at Wikipedia

Hello! I saw a note you left at the Wikipedia talk page for Public Health, and I think your input regarding the possible deletion of the Category:Health risks[1] could be very helpful. If you can spare a few minutes, the discussion is taking place at This discussion opened on August 1, and will probably close in the next day, so if you would like to comment time is of the essence. Regards, C. Gingold [2] 18:21, 7 August 2007 (PDT)

Salam dari Indonesia

Chris, have you arrived in Indonesia yet? Shoot me an email at serenity (at) Serenity 23:09, 13 August 2007 (PDT)


Hi Chris,

Its me the mosquito man after a long time! I had some tough times & thats y I didnt get in touch with u & my mails. As usual my net connection is down for a long time. In between my brother's illness worsened & he passed away. I was at home village for almost a month. Afterwards I was bedridden due to back pain -not fully recovered yet. Earlier I had asked u about the banner at the bottom of GEM_mosquito_control page & you had put an action point for me. On a quick look I could not find any details in the history. Today its noticed that the banner is beyond the user editable region. It comes below the user rditable space where your admin people give details about # of visits, last modification, About Appropedia, Powered by Media Wiki logo etc. Hence I am unable to complete the action point by you for me.

Regarding the question on graveled water, I need more details about the surface to give a complete answer. The idea of making water body inaccessible to mosquito is in my opinion impractical as well as ineffective. Please see a relevent answer in GEM_mosquito_control_FAQ#Q2. and GEM_mosquito_control_FAQ#Q7. I am very glad about your interactions & ur interest in mosquito control. Bye4now.

Shooter talk 02:40, 8 September 2007 (PDT)


Hi Chris, Regarding the accessability of mosquito to water below the gravel, can a sectional drawing of the site be made available? This is to see how deep is the water from top & how are the gaps between gravel bits. What is the size of gravel? Shooter talk 01:52, 12 September 2007 (PDT)

Imagemap extension for buttons


I hope you are keeping well.

I have installed the Imagemap extension which supports buttons (images) linking directly to urls and interwikis rather than the image itself. I have used buttons on the front page of Greenlivingpedia if you want to check this out. It might be worth using this functionality for Appropedia too, at least on the front page. I have left a note about this for Curt too. Regards, Peter Campbell 07:13, 25 September 2007 (PDT)

Hi Guys,
We use an image map extension. Currently we only use it with the highlighted project (see front page), but maybe we should start using it for buttons like on Greenlivingpedia (which looks great). Thank you so much for the update Peter. We really appreciate it. --Lonny 09:29, 25 September 2007 (PDT)

Hi Chris,


I think this might be going too far, at least for some types of mosquitoes. For example the AedesWP mosquito which carries dengue fever, and prefers to breed in clean water. The rubbish and man-made containers of urban environments suit it very well, explaining why it is mainly an urban problem.

So, I would say that avoidance of water-logging is not useless, but certainly it is difficult, and not adequate to control many types of mosquitoes. --Chriswaterguy · talk 05:22, 28 September 2007 (PDT)

I do not dispute the statement/fact that Aedes mosquitoes prefer clean water for breeding. What I do not understand is how avoidance of manmade water logging help mosquito contol. It is true that Wikipedia, WHO, Health ministers of Union & state cabinets of India (& probably of other nations also), officers & doctors at various levels of health departments and Medical Colleges tell what you told. But I am not able to comprehend it.If you don't mind, kindly explain how it works out. Hope you will help me understand the phenomeon. (Avoidance of water logging may give a marginal decrease, but not worth the efforts behind it. More over with the efforts of last 110 years we could not make any substantial reduction in the incidence of mosquito borne diseases and associated sufferings, deaths & financial losses).

Regarding the list of breeding places I do appreciate your thought, but most of them are reported in the Encyclopaedia Britanica which I read during the 1980's.

Shooter talk 02:36, 1 October 2007 (PDT) talk

This is a good discussion to have - will make time for it soon. I will attempt to answer it in Appropedia's mainspace (separate page), so it will be an exercise in jointly analysing and laying out the facts which hopefully others will find useful.
"More over with the efforts of last 110 years we could not make any substantial reduction in the incidence of mosquito borne diseases and associated sufferings, deaths & financial losses)."
Actually not only is there no improvement, but actually things have got worse. So many factors have changed, it would be a mistake to draw firm conclusions about just one factor like waterlogging. However it does seem logical that having more mosquito breeding grounds will make it easier for mosquitoes to breed; having less will make it harder; it follows that increasing rubbish (particularly plastic and foil) in recent years provides breeding grounds and would make the problem worse. Of course making a major reduction in the breeding places for Aedis mosquitoes would require a very big change in the culture of rubbish disposal in many places - and this major change is exactly the aim of certain programs like Recycling and dengue fever in Sukunan, Indonesia and the EWB-Australia supported project Yayasan Emmanuel Water Program in Jakarta, Indonesia. It's hard work though, as you say.
I see the rubbish-reduction approach and GEM as complementary - if there are very few places for mosquitoes to lay eggs except for the very convenient GEM water containers, that has to be good, and more effective than either approach on its own. I also see reducing rubbish as a good thing of itself. --Chriswaterguy · talk 10:09, 9 October 2007 (PDT)

Notes to self

Flood and earthquake resistant building:

  • laws in cities in Florida - not allowed to build living quarters on the ground floor.
  • houses on coconut palm trunks - earthquake resistant.

Measures to stop global warming - do the things that also improve health, as well as the economy. Make sense, and easier to sell to stakeholders. Actions for health:

  • air pollution
  • encourage alternative transport methods - walking and cycling.
  • Car pooling - is this less stressful and better

Actions for the economy:

  • Energy efficiency campaigns (the one in NYC was very effective, to the point that they canceled a contract with Ontaria HydroW.
  • Energy companies should have an incentive to reduce energy usage, not encourage it. This is already the case in some/many places.
    • Note the billion dollar kilowatt-hour - once a certain level of energy usage is achieved, the company is required by legislation to build another power plant.
    • Be aware of electricity conservation programs - subsidized insulation, lights...
  • Keep car tuned.
  • Recycling, composting - can be cost-effective depending on culture and population density?

Air conditioner efficiency - Carol's comment that it's cheaper to leave air-con on, as it's bringing the temp down takes more energy than keeping it cool. (This doesn't make sense to me, but check it out.)

Questions (check snopes? myth busters?):

  • Electric lights - is it really more economical to leave them on, rather than turning them on when you leave the room?
  • Keeping refrigerator full?

George: source reduction

Re: your suggestion to take discussion on source reduction to sep. page in main space

Hi Chris,

Its very pleasing to hear your suggestion of moving the discussion on effectiveness of source reduction in mosquito control to a seperate page in main space. It may be of use to others, but I see it as of great use to me more than to others. I can get the views of many others connected with this area & can clarify my doubts and wrong concepts, if any. That is going to be a great help you will be doing. I am eagerly waiting for that page & discussion to be open. If you feel I can open it, I shall certainly do. But if you open it users are likely to take it more seriously,I feel.

However it be, I feel its going to be a very very lively & probably HOT discussion since its the guideline or directive of the WHO thats being questioned/debated. Let us wait & see how it is going to explode or get defused.

Shooter talkFAQ 02:31, 16 October 2007 (PDT) talkUser


Hi Chris -- I think you are right ECOSAN is kind of like a small scale - home scale version of industrial ecology. Maybe we should have a new category for it and group it with the ZERI like thinking. On the other hand Ecosan could be practiced by small scale industry so it can fit. --Joshua 07:18, 18 October 2007 (PDT)


Thanks Chris --

Students are asked to put articles in categories -- but any non-participants are more than welcome to help categorize or improve pages. The history pages are extremely useful to me for still being able to grade student work.In most cases however, shortly after the pages are created they are graded. The final projects will be much more in depth -- what is up now is basically warm up -- to help the students get comfortable with wiki editing - while at the same time reviewing class material. --Joshua 07:37, 18 October 2007 (PDT)

Great catch and a spectacular learning opportunity for my students. It is really interesting that the main African American Enviro group tends to be against the majority of mainstream groups. All kinds of good material. E.g. That nuclear energy is "emission free" -- I have a paper coming out on the topic and embodied energy in 2008.

Template Encyclopedic

Awesome rewrite of {{Encyclopedic}}. So much more welcoming. --Lonny 18:10, 28 October 2007 (PDT)

Solar cooking

Chris -- Have we contacted SCI yet about getting their awesome archives tied in with appropedia? --Joshua 07:02, 31 October 2007 (PDT)


Sustainability needs Heros who are in the news and often and for good things.

Jon Tester is the first Organic farmer elected to Congress.

He is our poster boy.

That is why he has an article.

PS the other article is dead weight.

Baron 19:41, 6 November 2007 (PST)

that new page you suggested

Hi Chris,

I have made an attempt to open a new page in the main space as suggested by you for exchange of views & ideas on efficacy of source reduction as far as mosquito control is concerned.

Hope it is in order and that I have not crossed my limits. If anything is wrong on my part please point out so that I can correct it.

Hope that you are in receipt of my reply to your mail to my ID.

With warm regards, George Shooter 05:21, 13 November 2007 (PST)

the efficacy issue

Hi Chris,

I have registered in the appropedia forums and have posted the efficacy of souece reduction in mosquito control issue for discussion. Hope it will be fruitful and produce good results and take us to meaningful conclusions.

Cheers Shooter 01:13, 17 November 2007 (PST)

Natural Sequence Farming

Hi Chris

Actually I had already caught the student purging the page and warned him -- if it is not corrected by 5pm Friday I will go back and fix everything. Sorry for the trouble -

--Joshua 05:50, 6 December 2007 (PST)

note to self

Dr Iswanto - Ramina?, 5k outside Yogya, identified tips as source of Dengue mosquitoes; community program to clean up. trip to oz to get help with composting - used old water tanks.

info from rgreen at earth makers com --Chriswaterguy · talk 18:23, 18 December 2007 (PST)

Appropriate tech

moved from my Wikipedia talk page.

Hi Chris,

Was just reading your appropriate technology page under your wikipedia user page, and noticed that you say you're going to suggest to EWB Australia that they use Wikipedia. My sense is that you've shift your view, and now would (and have done?) recommend Appropedia. Would it be worth it to change your AT page?

By the way, I got here by reading the Appropriate Tech wikipedia article wondering who all the contributors were, then thinking I should try to connect with them, then thinking that you had probably already done it. But a search for your user name didn't work out quite like I expected. So, let me know if you think it's good/bad (maybe bad form?) to contact other AT contributors to promote Appropedia to them?

(By the way, I love the symbol/character/wikimarkup insertion tool below the wikipedia edit window!)

--Curtbeckmann 18:53, 4 October 2006 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lucy Skywalker from Transition Towns

Have only JUST read your thread on Transition Net forum and yes, I shall read Appropedia VERY CAREFULLY because my instinct is the same as yours - collaboration to mutual benefit. Yes. And I want to see a wiki like this for the WHOLE RANGE of human and spiritual issues that Transition throws up, not "neutral" like Wikipedia but passionate about Transition and leaving room for appropriate research. The Encyclopedia of Earth is a nice idea but it's still REMOTE from Jo Bloggs needs snappy facts quick. I've been hunting for the right website, and not finding any adequate to the task, have set about transforming our own, [, to target the need and gradually expand systems-wise, from the whole to the parts, yet always stay friendly and accessible and "Back To Basics". I now believe I have the BEST online introduction to Transition Towns. I've just started to interact with the TNet forum and asked them to raise their forum's profile. But if we can collaborate and just DO IT - why not? there is such a need...

If you want to answer me quick so I see your reply, email me action [at] Meanwhile I shall be soaking up the wiki here to see what comes through as best way to collaborate. I don't usually CAPITALIZE this much - this reflects excitement! Lucy Skywalker 05:44, 18 December 2007 (PST)

Great! Replied on your talk page and notifying by email. --Chriswaterguy · talk 07:05, 18 December 2007 (PST)
Cheers too! Have been scanning the wiki and your very interesting pages and I need to let it lie fallow now to let in the higher wisdom. But my first, very very clear thought is this: Appropedia (through any one individual or all of you) needs to take on the huge, huge urgency and pressure of the Peak Oil situation - and the new Global Warming info on hazards directly ahead. Perhaps my website can help with this - I do hope so!!!!! - this info is right at the top on my Transition Towns and Key Information pages.
You're absolutely right - I've wanted to do something about this, particularly climate change, for ages, but we've had been dozens of other pressing tasks, and I've been hoping people with a passion for these issues would join the project. Perhaps that time has come.
I've gone through times in my life when my direction has been catapulted through a huge paradigm shift, and these last three months is another of those. It's Peak Oil, finally the writing is so clearly on the wall - and very, very close, much closer than even seasoned greenies may realize - and this kind of gives me permission to speak openly about what I've known for so long - see my Apocalyptic Vision from 1981 [[3]. I've put the most critical info clearly on our TTown page under Peak Oil and The Big Melt, and I've started a wider info backup on the Key Information page. As Rob Hopkins says and we all in TT live with, THESE ARE THE DRIVERS of all we do in creative response. THESE ARE FACTS EVERYONE NEEDS TO KNOW - to let them work as drivers. So for instance the need for everyone to know how many man-hours is represented by a gallon of petrol, and what its "real" value is in those terms. Human Ecology - what Richard Heinberg majors in. It's not just about personal solutions which assume that the world continues well enough to put those solutions into practice, it's about integrated solutions that hold up for the best for everyone. Hence the emphasis on RELOCALIZE with TT. But the stark info which is the driver, needs to be GLOBAL and so does the derivative info, like how to run oil vulnerability audits, info collecting to assess the TWIG rating, etc.
Really valuable content - we'd love to have this kind of info. However, we can't just go in and take it without clear permission. It would be great if Appropedia and all the TT sites were using compatible open content licenses, so we could use each other's content freely. That's not hard to achieve, but I'd like to have a conversation with you about the steps needed.
Another issue is content type - we generally refer activist type content and policy debates/lobbying to our forums and/or SCA. But in terms of analysis and solutions, this is the place for it - and being a broad, international site, there's potentially a high profile and plenty of opportunity for engagement with likeminded people. There might be some cases where we have to work out what's appropriate for the site, but I don't foresee any big problems.
Yes yes yes! basically everything right on! I need time to digest but I've skimmed your latest replies. I looked up the stars and it's one of the most potent combinations possible, right on this conversation!... tell you later some time. When I woke up I thought Appropedia being a wiki has "troops", lots of resources of responses, but what our website has, not being a wiki, is more capacity to focus and marshal. Hence all the "driver" info upfront - info re Peak Oil and CC - also the first line of creative response is upfront. My thought therefore is to use OUR forum to replicate and continue this conversation there. But give me time to copy/restate it there first if that's ok. Juggling in between Christmas calling!! but then, I think Transition Towns IS the Christmas message!
I can't forget, the huge droughts in both the US and Australia this year... Lucy Skywalker 01:34, 19 December 2007 (PST)

enough for now, catch up after Christmas probably.
Merry christmas!
If you're on Skype, my id is chriswaterguy. Look forward to continuing the conversation sometime. (I'll be away approx 28 Dec - 4 Jan - hopefully catch you before then, but if not, Happy New Year as well! --Chriswaterguy · talk 21:55, 18 December 2007 (PST) [not on Skype - Lucy Skywalker 01:34, 19 December 2007 (PST)]
No problem - phone calls between Australia and UK are cheap these days. My mobile/SMS number is +61 400 220 700. It would be good to talk - just contact me, one way or another, and we can set up a phone call.
I'm singkong on Gmail chat, if that helps. --Chriswaterguy · talk 05:20, 19 December 2007 (PST)
will phone or write here if I can, tight time. I've done quite a bit more work on our website esp. the start of the Key Info "portal" page. This strategizing is what I think Appropedia (and TT) need and I'm trying to start to bring thru. I think Appropedia need a "Transition" section and they need the page one comes to, the Home Page, to be a portal page to all key Transition issues. IMHO!! Be in touch soon. Cheers Lucy Skywalker 02:10, 22 December 2007 (PST)

Lucy Skywalker at New Year

Hi, tried phoning 9.30 am and pm your time but no reply. So here are my thoughts:

1) Transition Network: Just visited the Transition forum and saw that nobody has entered anything later than my 3 posts a fortnight ago, this includes no response to my requests that the webmaster move the Forum hyperlink into a more prominent position on the TT wiki. Could be Christmas but it confirms the feeling that this forum is stuck - but then, so is ours still! Shall continue to work on this.

Forums with a small area of focus (like one specific town) will always struggle, I think, and that might the problem in this case. categories or sub-forums on a larger site makes more sense to me, to encourage interaction. --Chriswaterguy · talk 22:27, 6 January 2008 (PST)

2) Appropedia: I still feel this needs, right up front, top of home page, a nice user-friendly attractive-looking portal to all the departments. And why not have a whole "Transition" section? IMHO!... MEANWHILE... I've put a "thumbnail" about TT on the WikiNode page. Most of these wikis seem quite dormant and the Wikiversity / EcoVillage links are almost all structure with no substance, no pics... so again our intro to Transition Towns at GWT, and the rest I've done, still seems strategically important. Sustainable Community Action is much the best wiki I found, and, appropriately, already has Transition material.

A whole "Transition" section would be just what I've been hoping for!
Re a portal - that would be great! We have portals already, but when I read a portal to all the departments, I'm thinking of one or more portals that lay out the site's content in different ways... e.g. all the topics, and another (very relevant to TT) laying out different strategies for solving our current dilemmas. Maybe we should move much of the content from the front page onto the relevant portals, and just link to those.
A lot of Appropedia looks like it was put together by engineers (with an emphasis on info rather than form)... which is probably because it has indeed been put together by engineers, to a large degree :-).
Agreed re the various wikis, and GWT. SCA and Appropedia are both good places to put TT material, I believe, each with their own focus (activism vs practical measures). --Chriswaterguy · talk 21:51, 6 January 2008 (PST)

3) copying material not under GNU. I've actually copied (and edited) quite a lot of non-GNU material for GWT re TT because it seemed "the best" and seemed important strategically. However, in all cases I've contacted the author, explained my position, asked them to look and see if they like my work, and said I would remove it immediately if they did not. I explained that I worked proactively so that they could see if they were happy with the context in which I'd put their work on our website. I also put disclaimers where it seemed helpful. Above all I sought to work transparently in the spirit of courtesy. Well... all the material is still there...

Fair enough, but for Appropedia we prefer to play it safer - after all, it's a wiki, and we encourage people to re-use the material, including commercially. --Chriswaterguy · talk 21:51, 6 January 2008 (PST)

4) Always I've gone for the jugular, the key issues - with courtesy - as has the whole TT movement, as they say, "below the radar". Peak Oil and CC are pressing on me constantly; the Transition initiative is so important, it's turned me inside out, as it has others - but it needs to build up more info and research structuring, underpinning it, to develop strategic answers to all the key objections - FAQ-style, like ECOROPA leaflets used to do. I now realize that our classic website format is still well-enough geared for ratcheting up strategically: I can get across key information, and friendly, practical, sensitive help on key issues, without a wiki structure. What's still missing is the x-factor - something quite unique that speaks to people, gets spotted, and catches on. Yet I am sure we're moving in that direction! I am sure it's already the best introduction anywhere to Transition! And though you need to go to Rob's and Ben's sites to take the initiative further, you can always return to our website to refresh yourself.

I know what you mean about the x-factor - some new sites (usually about much more trivial things) attract tens of thousands of registered users in a matter of months... but no point complaining. I'm wondering what will make Appropedia appealing and extremely useful to sustainability folk around the world. One key is having masses of excellent content, and I'm working on ways of accelerating this growth of content. But there's no doubt other issues as well.
When we talk by phone I'll say a little more about what I see as the value of a wiki structure, but I do appreciate your site, and the value of an excellent introduction. --Chriswaterguy · talk 21:51, 6 January 2008 (PST)

5) It might seem I'm missing the virtues of Appropedia, but no - I just see a huge need at present to strategize, to marshall our resources, to align with Transition in particular because they sing the song closest to the planet's heart, the song of the urgency that is calling us all to transition ourselves and all our works, so we can do our best in the planetary "war effort", the "war" for Life on Planet Earth. Appropedia surely has an important potential part to play - but why don't you recast Appropedia to LOOK green? Green PLUS Appropriate Tech = Permaculture Feel. And think strategy.

I'll look forward to talking to you about strategy and the site's look. I like the skin we've had for a few months, with the mudbrick pattern - but we certainly want to keep improving it. The focus on Ap tech is just a matter of who has contributed so far - I expect things to become much more well-rounded over time.
Re the value of Transition, and particularly in relation to the "war effort," I'm coming to appreciate their value much more than I did previously (especially when CC gets an equal emphasis to Peak Oil). I'll make prominent mention of them in a page I'm planning, sustainability as a war effort. (That probably needs a better title, but it's a wiki - you can change it if you have a better title!) --Chriswaterguy · talk 22:27, 6 January 2008 (PST)

Look forward to your comments. What time GMT can I phone you?Lucy Skywalker 14:35, 1 January 2008 (PST)

Sorry I was away when you called. You'd have a good chance of catching me most days, around 10pm to 11am GMT. It's the antipodes after all :-).

Love your enthusiams - good to connect with someone who appreciates the critical importance of these things. Look forward to talking! --Chriswaterguy · talk 22:08, 6 January 2008 (PST)

Jan 2007 to...


Well, I've been doing it manually. I could try out wikEd too, you can go ahead and download it on my page.--Fatima 19:43, 23 January 2008 (PST)

Hi Chris,

I was wondering if you could have a look at 'Handpumps'. It's almost done, I just can't seem to get the picutres to align right and it leaves all these gaps! (See fig 8 and 9). I did this page manually, from now on I'm going to be using wikied.

--How do I add the tables? I've been uploading them like the images, but it doesn't seem right. Is there another way to do the tables? Fatima

Hi Fatima, Check out Help:Tables (and Help:Contents in general). There is also a cut and paste tool at, I think you need to save your table from excel as a .csv (comma separated values) file first. Chris may have a good suggestion from WikiEd as well. Keep up the great work. --Lonny 15:00, 28 January 2008 (PST)
All I can think to suggest is that you try again (maybe on another page) using WikEd, and see if it does a better job of the table. You don't have to save that page - just use the [w] button, then preview, and copy the parts that work better than the current page.
That would be my first approach, anyway. If that doesn't work, the links Lonny gave should help. I guess see if you can copy from the PDF to a spreadsheet, and save as a .csv file. Hope that helps, let us know if it doesn't!
If you learn new good ways of doing things, please note them on the relevant porting page, e.g. Appropedia:Porting PDF files to MediaWiki. --Chriswaterguy · talk 17:55, 28 January 2008 (PST)
Very sorry, I've made a mistake - the PDF porting with wikEd isn't working yet. It's been a few months since I tried it with PDFs, and I'd forgotten about this. I'm now working on it and hope to have better answers within a week. In the meantime, I suggest you:

Thanks Chris. I'll just finish up the ones I've already started (taking Lonny's suggestion for the tables) and then work on html or word docs.--Fatima 12:45, 29 January 2008 (PST)

I tried doing the tables but somehow I can't seem to do it and the entire text ends up in the table! see this How do I fix this, I've been trying alot of things but nothing works......!--Fatima 13:15, 29 January 2008 (PST)

Hi Fatima,
I think I fixed the table. Check it out and let me know if it is not what you were looking for. Thank you, --Lonny 16:27, 29 January 2008 (PST)


Am I supposed to reply here? or on my talk page? does it matter?

Anyway, I did see that page. Wikipedia also has several very good examples. I am working through my list of authors, trying to contact them, but they all published in the 60's and 70's and they are very difficult to find.

Thanks for the help. --David.reber 11:32, 29 January 2008 (PST)

Thanks Chris. I actually got the non-free adobe acrobat from a very kind and generous friend! I'll try it out today and see how it works and will let you know!--Fatima 13:29, 3 February 2008 (PST)

I am about to port Ecological Sanitation from Practical Action to Appropedia but I noticed that there already exists a stub for Ecological Sanitation- should I create a new page or add Practical Action's article on Ecological Sanitation to the stub? --Fatima 13:39, 3 February 2008 (PST)

Responded on your talk page. --Chriswaterguy · talk 14:44, 3 February 2008 (PST)

I've started using the non-free adobe acrobat- and it has tremendously reduced the time to port material! Usually there is an error in saving the first page of the pdf in the rtf format, so I just do that page manually, otherwise it's working pretty well....... To see what is already done, I just put the topic title of the pdf brief in appropedia's search- if it's been done before, the page shows up, otherwise I just create a new page. But I'll look at the links you've suggested.--Fatima 16:57, 3 February 2008 (PST)


I've more or less ported the water related practical action briefs- I am having trouble downloading Ecological Sanitation; otherwise I've done the others. Do you want me to port the other non-water related practical action briefs? ( I can do pdfs easily!) If not what other water related content do I focus on?--Fatima 15:07, 4 February 2008 (PST)

Fantastic! Either:
  • Use Appropedia's Public Domain Search to find high quality information (on water or anything else). I plan to do some serious work on the search engine in the next few days, but it should already give good results now - you just have to do some hunting (refining the search terms, and browsing results). If you're unsure if something is public domain (the search results are not 100% PD unfortunately) just ask me.
  • Port something from Requests for porting help on the porting page; or
  • Port other Practical Action content.
I also had trouble with the ES article - the PDF is just a blank page. I'll notify them.
Btw, have you found an easy way to extract the pictures from the PDF? --Chriswaterguy · talk 15:56, 4 February 2008 (PST)

Since it is easier for me to port pdf files, I think I'll port more of them. When I save the pdf file in the XML format, it automatically creates a folder with all the images in it, so I don't have to use the snap shot tool or paint, which is great! But...the XML document itself is a little puzzling to me..when I opened the XML document,it looked unusual..when I pasted in on to the web page in Appropedia , it wasn't coming out right. So now what I do is save the pdf file in Word Document format- I use this document to transfer the text to the web page and then I save the pdf again in the XML format to get the images folder- it really does'nt take that much time saving the pdf file in both types of formats so I do it. Is there any way I could show you the XML document (is it possible to email that doc ? I don't know too much about it) so that you know what I'm talking about?....--Fatima 19:49, 5 February 2008 (PST)

Hi Chris,

I've ported Conservation of indigenous breeds (Practical Action Brief)...but i'm having trouble doing the table (see the link)..I've been trying but I can't seem to do it right at all...your help would be appreciated..

--Fatima 19:49, 6 February 2008 (PST)

List of redlinks?

Is there a listing somewhere of all redlinks? (I.e. articles/pages/stubs that need to be created) -- Writtenonsand 17:31, 18 February 2008 (PST)

Special:Wantedpages, right, thanks! -- Writtenonsand 17:37, 18 February 2008 (PST)


Hi Chris,

I was thinking that we should rename all SfGS pages as SfGS then the page name, with no colon (so as not to look like a namespace). So SfGS: Zero-Waste Party would become SfGS Zero-Waste Party, and that they would all be categorized under Category:SfGS (which we could do with {{SfGS}}). Please let me know what you think and if you would like me to make the changes.

Thank you, Lonny

Agreed - but either we leave the pages with colons as redirects, or we need to change the template on the old wiki and enter the target page manually. Is that worth doing, do you think? Happy for someone else to decide and do :). Thanks! --Chriswaterguy · talk 05:22, 26 February 2008 (PST)

note to self

Having to reinstall - back later - Chris

I have no idea where this should go.

And you're the water guy.

--Simpsons 20:32, 8 April 2008 (PDT)

I've created Category:Water distribution - perhaps add a paragraph and link on that page, or start a new page and add that category. Thanks. --Chriswaterguy (talk) 20:56, 8 April 2008 (PDT)



shutdown from CLI:

halt / shutdown -h

Q. How do I add a new user using command line tools? What are command line option recommended.

A. You need to use useradd command, which is responsible for creating a new user or update default new user information

The useradd command creates a new user account using the values specified on the command line and the default values from the system. The new user account will be entered into the system files (/etc/passwd) as needed, the home directory (/home/username) will be created, and initial files copied, depending on the command line options. Task: Add a user to the system

Syntax is as follows for useradd command: useradd <username>

By default user account is locaked, you need to setup a new password: passwd <username>

For example add a new user called tom and set password to jerry:

  1. adduser tom
  2. passwd tom

If you want to add a user to group read how to add a user user to group

List of common options:

   * -c comment: Add a comment for the user
   * -d home-directory: Create a new home-directory
   * -e yyyy-mm-dd: Date for the account to be disabled
   * -f days: Number of days after the password expires until the account is disabled. (If 0 is specified, the account is disabled immediately after the password expires. If -1 is specified, the account is not be disabled after the password expires.)
   * -g group-name: Primary Group name or group number for the user's default group (group name must exist)
   * -G group-list: List of secondary additional (other than default) group names or group numbers, separated by commas, of which the user is a member (group name must exist)
   * -m: Create the home directory
   * -M: Do not create the home directory
   * -s: User's login shell (default /bin/bash)

To read all command line option type following command: $ man adduser

Found the bug, I think

You can login from terminal (Ctrl+Alt+F1 when the dm starts) and then type drak3d in order to disable 3d and unsderstand what's happened. If drak3d is not found there then you have to reinstall it ('urpmi drak3d' and it should install its dependencies)
I'd uninstall compiz (# urpme compiz) and then installed it again (# urpmi compiz).

More ideas:

Boot from USB

USB Flash Memory HOWTO

Hi from Egypt

Quick hi to Appropedia folks. In Alex now for Wikimania. Linux on my laptop is playing up for me again so I'll connect in the morn (about 9 hours). --Chriswaterguy -13:34, 15 July 2008 (PDT)

Math and formulas on Appropedia

Hi Chris, I'm Alvaro. We met last night at IDDS. Im involved in the design of the ropeway, and wanted to share some of the calculations involved in the security of the cables. It seems however that the math mode is not enabled in appropedia (this is the message: Failed to parse (Missing texvc executable; please see math/README to configure.): \frac{x}{csh(x/a)}). Who should I talk to to repair that? (if you think it's a good idea). Thanks. (4 Aug. 2008) [contact, ab1805 [-@-] mit [#dot#] edu]

Hi Alvaro,
Thanks for pointing this out. It now works. E.g.
Keep up the awesome contributions, --Lonny 02:35, 4 August 2008 (PDT)

George, still running after mosquito

Hi Chris, This is same George & am still after mosquito. I am still alive and feel stronger after the second angio-plasty, thank you for your prayers. Still remember you having told that you don't have much time to waste on silly matters. I find you busier than ever. Good. Keep it up.

But what to do? Unfortunately, as usual, I have a small problem now & thought you will be able to guide me out of it. Me unable to access the forums page on mosquito control . Could you please spare a short span of your valuable time to tell me how to sort out this or who can be approached to get this set right or clarified? Does this page still exist? How to find out? Bye4now. E.M.George talk

Hi George,
I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm too busy for you or others in the Appropedia community - we're always available for you :-).
The forum site is down at the moment - Curt is working on it. The forum never took off though, so I'm thinking of doing a blog post and inviting comments there. We could also take content from the forum page (when it's fixed) to the wiki, and summarize the arguments there.
I'm glad you're feeling stronger - keep taking care of yourself! --Chriswaterguy 17:40, 27 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Chris

This is George, popularly known among close friends as mosquito george. This time I have come with a still more controversial statement.

MyDiabetesIsCured   Diabetes_mellitus_cured.  Please visit the page and comment.

MosquitoGeorge · talk Shooter 09:53, 16 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Already getting in touch with medical people

Hi Chris,

Thank you very much for your generosity.

I am already on the move to get the thoughts & critical opinions on this matter. Have already collected the contact details of a few. Drafting a letter is in progress. Will be back to you soon.

MosquitoGeorge · talk Shooter 06:51, 26 September 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Chris, this is George

I am extremely sorry for the delay in uploading the ENGLISH VERSION of detailed account of curing disease. Translation took much more time than preparing the original. It is placed in a blog utilising the space of Google. Its URL is and title is: "MyDiabetesCured; do you want to cure yours?". Hope you will see that. E-mail containing the link of the Appropedia page Diabetes_mellitus_cured and a request to join the discussion is sent to 10 physicians at various locations. Their responses are awaited. Thank you once again for allowing the page to be retained there. A neighbour who has been diabetic for more than a decade, and on insulin for more than 5 years was havins Fasting Blood Sugar 225 mg% & HbA1C 10.5% a week back. Now her FBS is 71 mg% following my routine. Shall et in touch soon.

  talk Shooter 08:06, 9 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Chris, this is George

I am back after prostate removal surgery (TURP). But still bed-ridden due to post operative problems. So not in touch with NET or PC for last 2 weeks. Will get in touch with you as soon as I am back on track.

talk Shooter 13:42, 25 October 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Instant messaging +categorisation

Hey Chris, having been thinking about your mail in which you stated you worked with a bot, I thought it would be handy to use this bot to help us set up the instant messaging idea. I thus made a small page called Members, and the idea is that the bot could prod all the Appropedia members to place in their own information. Look whether the table is OK and whether extra info needs to be placed on to be requested to the members. Note that I think the Category:Members should be used to replace the Category:Users by interest (subcategories already explain the ... by intrest) Note that some categories as "users intrested in water and sanitation" are also best changed, in line with my recategorisation remarks (meaning that eg for this category, the category would become eg "users intrested in water harvesting", and "users intrested in sanitation". I think the ..."users" category are also best swapped with "members" (as users can also be passer-bys; not having an appropedia account). The members category should also no longer come under Category: Appropedia administration (members are not part of the administration; eg they are not administrators). If completed, a link may be placed at Appropedia:About to quickly click to the members list. As noted in the village pump, the anonymous editing and anonymous page viewing of specific pages as this one first needs to be switched off to eliminate spam. I think that to implement this measure, it may be needed to talk to the other administrators.


Thanks - interesting idea re instant messaging. Initial thought: This can be automated once we get some semantic capabilities. That will be much easier, I think, so how about we focus some attention on how to choose and implement our semantic setup? --Chriswaterguy 11:20, 30 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've been a little busy with family, and ate something I shouldn't have (but better now) so I've fallen behind a little, but still working towards getting some PDF help, and thinking about manuals and policy. Would appreciate your thoughts on Talk:AT villager recruitment.
Hey Chris, comment added at the same article


A small extra idea regarding the members: perhaps it's useful to include information about the AT organisation the member adheres to. In this respect, it would be useful to have them act as "representatives" for the AT organisation, and possibly have them selected as the main porting helpers for porting the articles off the organisation (ideally in both ways; meaning that the AT organisation also selected the member to port their articles; and that the initiative thus not only come from the member itself (eg similar to myself)). They can also compile a list of articles written by the AT organisation, so as to know how much we still need to port.
Certainly. At the moment, anyone can use (or make) a userbox to put on their userpage, showing their affiliations or interests, and the box can add them to a category. We can do more when we get semantic features. Did you have other ideas? --Chriswaterguy 07:30, 14 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, but I think it's best to "automate" this a little. Perhaps that instead of a standard welcome message (eg as with Wikipedia's "the pillars of Wikipedia", ...), the "To do"-list, and the infoboxes with the necessairy personal info can already be automatically placed on the user page (eg generated when a new user is made).
Definitely! We'd love to do this but aren't sure how. There are various extensions used by Wikia, but I'm not sure how well they work. I'm not sure what skills are needed - probably PHP, but to write a wizard to help someone set the userboxes, I'm not sure.
MediaWiki isn't really designed to make this easy, but the other option is to partner with a social network and merge the userpages from each site. That might be best. --Chriswaterguy 13:35, 17 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Also, I would also like to hear your comments on the switching off of the anonymous editing. Besides being necessairy for eg spam, ... (as mentioned in this section before), I think that this will persuade many more AT organizations to increase their porting of their documents to here. A main argument against Appropedia (which I btw also heard from Ingenieurs Zonder Grenzen) is that the data is not kept secure enough (they are thus less eager to become dependant on the documents stored here). I think that simply switching anonymous editing off (aswell as making certain very specific documents unreadable without account) is more then enough to adress this. Captcha, ... (used eg by other wiki's as PESwiki is I believe not required).

I believe the value of allowing anon editing is greater than the tradeoffs. Spam and vandalism have been greatly reduced. Some people worry about anons and security, but would they edit anyway if we had closed editing? My experience makes me doubt it. For every 100 people who browses on Appropedia, maybe 1 will actually contribute - I think that's how the web works, and trying to change our site to make non-contributors happy should not be a top priority.
I understand that people will be quicker to edit pages, but I'm not sure whether this really justifies not switching it off. People that are more quick to edit the pages, logically seeing, would normally not really add substantial info (aldough perhaps they could provide some simple cleanups, ...). Often the people that are willing to really provide a contribution will gladly go into the trouble to register. As for the browsing, indeed more people will simply browse appropedia and not necessairily edit them, but then they also aren't affected by the switching off of the anonymous editing.
In our experience here and when studies have been done on Wikipedia, anonymous editors have overall been positive contributors to the site. As they say, Wikipedia only works in practice, not in theory :-). Often what happens is that new contributors do so anonymously a few times, and only then go on to register. This includes people posting projects. So we want a low barrier.
My comment about non-contributors was in reference to organizations and people that express this concern about anons. My question is: if we turned off anon editing, would these people and organizations contribute to the wiki? My guess is that they would usually continue to not contribute, because A. most people don't contribute and B. they aren't so enthusiastic about it that they've contacted us or even tried to edit here. That's okay, and I hope they get value from the site, but we work with the people who do contribute. --Chriswaterguy 12:55, 16 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If specific pages should be protected from anon editors, they can be "semi-protected" by an admin. I see no problem with requesting this for specific project and organization pages if there is a concern. We'd also be happy to hear from organizations such as Ingenieurs Zonder Grenzen about their specific concerns, and how we could address them. --Chriswaterguy 07:30, 14 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Small remark: I stated that specific pages are best protected from viewing by anonymous users. This because, as in the example of the members page, e-mailadresses, ... are best protected from spam, ...
It's important to protect email addresses. There are other ways though, e.g. the {{email}} template, and possibly the mw: Extension: Bad Behavior plugin, to stop harvesters. We'd need tech help with the extension. Restricting reading of pages is hard in MediaWiki. --Chriswaterguy 12:55, 16 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I wanted to explain our reasoning more, so here are Open edit and Quality in an open edit wiki - I'm sure there are other writings as well that could be referenced. --Chriswaterguy 14:34, 15 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

At present, I'm working on translating the newly uploaded documents at the agriculture manual (also going to upload some new schematics at wiki commons, so perhaps I'll need to delay 1-2 days). The exams I mentioned before have been finished since a week, so I'll now have some more time to continue my work here. KVDP 14:34, 10 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Great news - hope you get the results you wanted! --Chriswaterguy 07:30, 14 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Passed the exam. As for the agriculture manual, there is one other thing i've been thinking about. Similar to what I proposed in the categorisation, we will need to include info not only on food production, but also food processing and storage. At wikiversity I already have some 2 (quite useful) documents that can be ported, aswell as some ideas for the inclusion of a map (world staple foods, ...; see the invisible remarks at the article's TOC). However, the "Agriculture manual" should probably only include "agriculture" or food production. I did however already include a section on processing. To include all of the steps, we can thus change the name to "Food production, processing and storage manual" or simply "Food manual". An alternative is splitting up the manual to include simply food production, a manual on processing, a manual on storage and have a seperate manual eg on Nutrition (mentioning eg global deficiency ilnesses per world country and causes, the main nutritional elements for humans, ...). The downside with this splitting-up in several documents is however, that one can quickly lose sight of the big picture and that edits will be done lacking a complete approach (eg by including foods that are unsuited to long storage, can not be processed in derivative products, ...). 12:34, 16 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Congratulations on the exam! Looking forward to seeing the pages about food.
"The downside with this splitting-up in several documents is however, that one can quickly lose sight of the big picture" - it's certainly important to have overview pages, and sections of articles that refer to other pages, e.g. the {{main}} template and a brief summary. Food production and food processing are already extremely broad topics so they should be overview pages, but it's possibly to have a higher level as well. I'm keen to get to work on the lower levels so that we have pages to refer to in the overviews.
I have to sleep as I have an early morning - will get back to you soon! --Chriswaterguy 12:55, 16 December 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ZB Farms

It wont allow me to put a small start story about our farm. I am looged in. I did the curved letters....still would not allow for my short story to be published. What am I doing wrong?

Suzette Morgan ZB Farms

Good morning,

I am trying to edit my user page to include information about myself and I keep getting the Ooops Spam page. Is there anything I can do to adjust this? I have made small edits, logged on, confirmed and confirmed my email.



Fixed & replied. --Chriswaterguy (talk) 16:08, 22 June 2015 (PDT)

Ethan admin

I second the nomination - but dont know where to do it - Joshua (talk) 18:40, 9 July 2015 (PDT)

Open House

A colleague on the Open Manufacturing forums suggested Appropedia as a likely location for a project page for a project I'm currently developing called Open House. It's a video documentary series that follows the demonstration of a lifestyle based on open tech/design through the construction of a home, its furnishings, workshop, microfarm, energy systems, transportation, and even domestic robots all based on open source designs obtained primarily on-line. Using the building project as its hook, it's also intended to be an exploration into the emergent Post-Industrial culture and the movements, communities, and personalities involved in that emergence. I'm considering a working page/site for developing and promoting the concept and cataloging the designs, tools, and resources that would be used. I have experience with using the Wikia platform ( ) and have been around in the maker, open tech, and eco tech communities for a while. Before setting up an account here, I thought it proper to contact you to see if you thought Appropedia would be an appropriate place for such a project. These days stand alone sites are something a note in a bottle tossed into the sea so it would be better to be on a site with some gravitas.


Eric Hunting <email redacted>

I went ahead and emailed Eric, telling him it sounds like a good fit and to get in touch with Lonny. --Ethan (talk) 12:40, 13 August 2015 (PDT)
Hi Eric, and thanks Ethan! --Chriswaterguy (talk) 19:33, 19 August 2015 (PDT)


Hi Chris,

My name is Sam Nishanian. Hope you don’t mind the random internet message but I found you by chance when I googled “MediaWiki Consultant Sydney” and your Linkedin page came up which basically filled me in on your other work. Which I think is rather fortunate since we seem to share a great many interests.

The reason I’m writing is that for the last several years I’ve been working on defining a model of governance that enables and empowers communities to operate in a fair and efficient way. It’s called Permaway.

If you’d like to hear more about it you can watch the talk I gave at the Australasian Permaculture Conference this year:

Or if you’d like to have a Skype chat or if you’re in Sydney, Redfern area a coffee.

Anyway as you may have guessed I’m interested in MediaWiki at the moment, and more specifically Semantic MediaWiki, to use as a platform to build a working prototype for this model. I’m quite confident with computers myself but I really could use any help or advise you’d be willing to offer.

Not sure if this is the best way to contact you so hope this message finds you well. I'll try to contact you on the old Facebook also :-)

Regards, Sam Nishanian

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