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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Diabetes mellitus cured - George's experience"

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[[User:Georgedappilly|Shooter]] 06:41, 19 August 2011 (PDT)
 
[[User:Georgedappilly|Shooter]] 06:41, 19 August 2011 (PDT)
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::I understand that you find bible quotes very well written, but still, you have got so much quotes and irrelevant information in your article that I find extremely difficult to read the facts, and cant seem to follow the chronological events, because they are so scattered and all over the place. I do not need to read quotes about what scientists thought about trips to the moon, or said about unrelated things. Your article is about Diabetes mellitus and long wheat, and try as hard as possible to focus on that topic. And try to write an abstract at the top of the page, that summarize the article and its results, that would help to get more understanding from other readers.
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::And I would really like to know how you interpret the lab results from january and february of 2007 as compared to the latest results? What was your diet at that time? --[[User:Yeahvle|Yeahvle]] 00:38, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

Revision as of 02:38, 21 August 2011

George E M

Welcome

Hi friend,

Evidently we are interested in the well being of ourself as well as our fellow people. Hence in our efforts towards realising that goal, let us share our knowledge & experiences to improve the quality of life of one and all in what ever humble way we can.

Please feel free to express your sincere opinions & suggestions. comment by Georgedappilly, 17 September 2009.

Suitability for Appropedia?

I'm very interested to hear more about what exactly you did - but at the same time I'm not sure it's within the scope of Appropedia. This amounts to original research in medical matters, and we don't have a lot of that expertise in our community (compared to the expertise in public health, which is quite different, and solar, composting, etc).

Another issue is that a single case might be very enlightening, but needs more analysis and questioning (e.g. about the initial diagnosis, rate of false positives in the initial test...) before lessons are drawn for the average person.

I'd like to make sure you have a place to share this, however, to encourage analysis and discussion. So I won't suggest we delete it now, but rather that we look for a suitable community where it can be shared. Anyone have any ideas?

George, I'll wait till you've finished adding details, then ask a couple of medical people for their thoughts. --Chriswaterguy 04:54, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Already getting in touch with medical people

Hi Chris,

Thank you very much for your generosity.

I am already on the move to get the thoughts & critical opinions on this matter. Have already collected the contact details of a few. Drafting a letter is in progress. Will be back to you soon.

Georgedappilly

E.M.George

These persons have responded elsewhere (Blog/e-mail) & I have copied the text here. Hope they will soon join the discussion here. Some more doctors are also likely to join soon. Shooter 11:35, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Indu-Pappu

George Uncle,

Diabetes is a perfect example of a disease condition which you can manage and learn to live with through effective dietery regulations and exercise regime and by making a few life style changes. Well done to you for making the effort, and sharing the results and knowledge which will be an encouragement to many people with the condition. This can be further enhanced by following a few remedies and life style changes recommended by our own indigenous Ayurvedic medicine!

Happy to know that you are keeping well.

ankil

dear indu-pappu,

Shri george has claimed that he has managed to cure his diabetes and he is not now learning to live with it.

If you are a doctor , please comment on the exact point raised.

Indu-Pappu

I do not think George has been 'cured' of Diabetes. Although it seems to be the case. Too early to tell. He doesnot account for the activity he did between 12.30 and 2pm ie-after the 'Sadya' until his blood test. Variations in blood sugar levels are possible in borderline cases like George's.

A longer time of study/ observation under controlled conditions where diet, activities, exercise and lifestyle changes are accounted for needs to be done to CONCLUDE that George has been 'Cured'of Diabetes.


Ankil

Thank you indu-pappu.


Georgedappilly

Thank you for pushing the healthy discussion further forward. Hope it will give good result.

Georgedappilly

Hi Dr Indu-Pappu,

Thank you very much for being so clear & straight forward. I am sorry to have omitted the accounting of activity between 12.30 and 2pm. This was resorted to be brief & in fact I didn’t realize that it is so critical. Else it would not have been omitted. Here it is for every one:

The marriage & ‘Sadya’ were at RDR Auditorium, Edappazhanjinji, Trivandrum. From there walked up to the Bus Stop, probably hundred meters (100 m) away (or near!). Waited there nearly 3 -4 minutes for a bus to arrive. Got into it and traveled up to Statue bus stop in front of Govt. Secretariat. Got down there, crossed the road, after a few minutes boarded another bus via Kannanmoola - Medical College and alighted at the Medical College High School stop, ie. right in front of the lab. The lab technician asked to wait till 2pm, when I told that I had lunch at 1230 and want to have a PPBS test. Relaxed on the sofa and was called in by 2pm.

A photograph of the result sheet is placed at http://traplarva.blogspot.com/2009/09/part-6.html Kindly have a look at the next picture also, which is the lab report of a GTT done subsequently.

Please feel free to comment on these.


Indu-Pappu

Hi everybody

Looks like George was only a borderline diabetic. Hence he has responded to dietary regulations and Exercise (walking).

May be he should not have been labelled a diabetic in the first place without checking for a few months.But I am afraid as a qualified physician I cannot comment whether he is cured or not without a proper controlled study, especially since Diabetes is heriditary and genetically linked. So there is a chance that he might experience variations in the blood sugar levels again in future (God forbid). Therefore it will be irresponsible of me as a physician to say that Diabetes can be cured and give the society false hope. All I can say is that diabetes certainly can be 'managed'.So , George, forgive my hesitation to say that you are cured.

But I can assure you that George's experience is not uncommon, glitches like these happen in the body. May be the initial readings have been a glitch . Maybe he should not have been labelled without confirming for a few times. This then raises the issue of how many more are being labelled as diabetics after one or two tests? Should we try dietary regulations first before labelling a person diabetic etc.

I am open for discussion.


Dr Suvy Manuel said...

Mr EM george uncles experience regarding his diabetic status is quite interesting. I know him personally and was quite amazed to see his diabetic and non diabetic blood sugar values.The diet pattern put forward by him definitely seems promising and i believe that more controlled clinical studies will be helpful in proving his point.

Dr suvy Manuel MDS,DNB,MFDS RCS(Eng),MOS RCS (Ed)


Dr Rajesh Cyriac

Dear George uncle,

Happy to hear that u r in good health now...let your case be the stepping stone for intensive research in this field and god willing be a big relief for millions of people around the globe suffering from this illnesss... keep up the good work...

Dr Joe Chirayath

Dear George uncle,

  • Happy to hear that your sugar levels are under control with the mentioned diet. Sounded interesting and maybe there's something in 'suuji gothambu' that helps.

Few things,

- Diet control as a treatment modality for diabetes mellitus is a well recognised treatment modality and the diets recommended just vary. One more thing with diabetes is - unlike some other diseases it is difficult to say that it's been cured just with a few normal values.

  • Under control might be a better terminology (as also once you go back to a normal diet it most likely will come back)

- Evidence based medicine has 5 levels of evidence - from multicentre randomised control trials(level 1) to expert opinions (level 5) (details can be obtained by a google search).

  • Single patient outcomes unfortunately don't count in evidence based studies unless a big study is done on it.

- Few more details might make this more interesting for someone to consider taking it forward as a study- what has 'suuji gothambu' in it that makes it work (an explanation as to whether it has a special role in glucose absoption/metabolism/excretion ) compared to other diet modalities.

Regards,

Joe

Hi Ankil, Indu Pappu, Dr. Suvy Manuel, Dr. Joe & Dr. Rajesh,

I am glad that you all have responded to my blog-post/mail. Anticipating your permission I copied the text from blog &/or mail to the Appropedia.org/Diabetes_mellitus_cured's discussion page. May I take this opportunity to invite once again you and all those interested in the cure of diabetes & well-being of our society to join hands here and scientifically prove the FACT that diabetes is curable.

One can join the discussion in different ways.

  1. As an anonymous person:

Visit any page of your choice in Appropedia.org by entering its addeess at the address bar of your browser. {for example (eg:) click here to go to Talk/discussion page attached to the GEM_mosquito_control page. Then click the edit link (preferably the last -bottom most- one at the right margin). Then the edit window will open up. Type in or paste your text below the existing text in the white background portion. Once text entry is complete, click the show preview link below if you wish to see how your text will appear in the page. If you feel like adding or modifying some portion, scroll down to the edit window below, add or modify & go to show preview again. If you are satisfied save it by clicking save page link at the left side of the preview link. Before saving you may give a brief summary of the matter added, at the summary window. Instead, if you want to abort the session, click the cancel link on the right side of the preview link. To know more about editing (like paragraphing, adding links, pictures, Headings, bold, italics, bulletts etc, visit Help:Contents page or mail me.

2. As an appropedia user: For this one has to register (FREE) once by clicking the login/register link at the top of the screen and giving the required information (a unique user name, password & e-mail id. The mail id will be useful when one wants to watch any page of one's interest. If the watch link at the top of any page of one's interest is clicked, one will start receiving an alert e-mail containing a link to the page & a summary of the event when ever that page is modified).

  • 2a) Once you register as user, you get two (2) pages in Appropedia's site. they are User:Username and User_talk:Username. Yourself or someone else can create these pages. For creating a page, just search that page. Then these pages will not be found and you will be prompted to create the page. Click that link and there you are!
  • 2b) The Usre page can be used as your Home Page and Talk Page can be used as your discussion forum/platform.
  • 2c) Once you are a user, you can even start Main Pages on topics of your expertise/experience if they are in line with the policies & regulations of the Appropedia.org.
  • 2d) A User can easily sign the contributions by entering 4 tildas (~) at the end of text. The tildas will be translated as

Shooter 14:46, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

interesting

interesting page. :) Emesee

Thank you

Thank you Emesee for the encouraging remark. Georgedappilly

Further proofs of the cure of diabetes

  1. On 13th October 2009 I underwent a surgical procedure (TURP). During as well as after the procedure my blood sugar was stable.
  2. A shoe-bite of 11th November 2009 healed by itself in two days.
  • These two facts reinforce the cure of diabetes in Me.

Shooter 16:25, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

HIS mail

Early morning there was a post in my mind's inbox. It had 2 points.

  1. Clarify with CHRIS WATKINS the grabing of my appropedia page on diabetes cure by another user.
  2. Discuss with CHRIS WATKINS the poor participation of Physicians in the discussion on diabetes cure.

Hi Chris

A very strange development is noticed in the page on diabetes cure. The TOTAL work is claimed by another User. Please see green b/g below there ... ... Based on work by Kristof Van der Poorten and anonymous users of Appropedi.

Do you think that this is a fair deal? Even if he/she has contributed anything to this page he/she should have been generous enough to (at least) include my name also there.

Could you please throw some light on the procedure to add my name there as a contributor (not as anonymous). What is the procedure for that? Is there anything to be done from my end? (DID I FALL IN A FERAMON TRAP?)


To clarify, there were no bad intentions by anyone. That automated attribution notice in the footer is just not very sophisticated, and it doesn't know who is the main editor. The poor choice of words seems to imply that the last editor was not the main editor, when really it should imply nothing either way. Anyway, it should be fixed temporarily.
I'll talk with Lonny and see if we can reword it. Probably it should say something of the form: "This page was last modified (time/date) by Kristof. Other editors include Wati, George and Mary." How does that sound?
By the way, no need to apologize for asking questions - always happy to help. --Chriswaterguy

Thank you Chris

Thank you very much Chris for clarifying things to such an extent. Now every thing is clear & fine.

Poor participation

The participation of Physicians in the discussion here on diabetes cure is very poor. Whatever is there is mostly pessimistic (as given above).

  1. The whole world believes that diabetes is incurable.
  2. Until somebody conduct a large scale study & prove otherwise, all will continue to believe so even if they become diabetic. I have seen several diabetics finding pleasure in ascertaining that diabetes is incurable!
  3. There was a time the whole world belived that earth was a FLAT DISC.
  4. There was a time the whole world belived that Earth was stationary.
  5. There was a time the whole world belived that all the celestial bodies (sun, moon,stars,...) are revolving around the earth.
  6. There was a time the whole world belived that sun & moon are flat discs.
  7. There was a time the whole world belived that stars are much smaller than moon.
  8. There was a time the whole world belived that digestion of food was taking place in the mouth.
  9. There was a time the whole world belived that there is no male & female parts in plant kingdom (to be precise in flowers).
  10. There was a time the whole world belived that plant reproduction was asexual.
  11. There was a time all professors were teaching that these things were so.
  12. Whoever came foreward with findings challenging these had been branded as foolish, mad etc. until the society grew to his/her intellectual level.
  13. Presently all Health & Medical (educational) institutions teach that Diabetes is INCURABLE!
  14. Probably (Deo Volente/Insa Allah) our grandchildren may have the fortune to be taught the right thing that DIABETES IS CURABLE.


Hi George,
It's very hard to get medical people to participate in a specific discussion online, including on a wiki. But you've got the article there, online, so people have seen it. The footer says "This page has been accessed 1,583 times." which is promising.
Also, when they say it's incurable, perhaps their medical definition would class your experience as successful ongoing treatment? After all, if you changed to your old unhealthy diet, you'd find the diabetes has not disappeared. I don't know - just speculating. This doesn't change the value of your successful treatment, but it's worth keeping in mind when reading about other treatments and management of the condition. Some people do live well with diabetes, especially if they eat a lot of low glycemic index foods such as legumes and sweet potatoes. (See Wikipedia: Glycemic index #Glycemic index of foods - if you're not familiar with it, you might find it useful. You can use Google and find more detailed lists of foods with their glycemic index).
Having said all that - to teach people that "diabetes is incurable" is to tell them they have no power to fix it, which is not true at all - as you've shown. I much prefer the way you have taken action and achieved results!
By the way, I was wondering about some kind of notice to put at the top of the page. Because it's in the mainspace, but very much focused on your experience, including your thanks to God. But instead I moved it to Diabetes mellitus cured - George's experience - the same way that project pages here mention the specifics of who or where. Hope that's okay. Another page on diabetes should at some point discuss all sides of this illness and the ways of treating it, but it makes sense to keep your page intact with the details of your experience. Does that sound fair?
Wishing you continue good health! --Chriswaterguy 08:33, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Exercise?

George, I'm curious whether you are a very physically active person, and whether your doctor told you to exercise more. I understand that exercise and daily activity have a big impact on the way our body metabolizes sugar, and can help avoid the prevention and control of Type 2 diabetes. --Chriswaterguy 23:04, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

No

Hi Chris, Very glad about your curiosity. My wife's most frequent complaint is that I spend most of my time sitting on a chair reading ... . My policy is "DO IT WHILE YOU DO IT". While reading, I sit quiet & relaxed. I go to bed with an empty mind, spend time in court yard - watering garden plants etc etc. To any destination around 1-2 kilometers (approximately a mile) I prefer walking, provided luggage is less.

My doctor did not tell me to exercise more & I did not do more either.

Your understanding about the relation between exercise & sugar metabolism is very much correct. But what I have told is about CURE and not about control of Type 2 diabetes. As far as control is concerned, you as well as others are right. But nobody has ever cured diabetes (be it type 1 or 2) with exercise &/or food swapping with low glysaemic value diet.

Hope I am clear. If not, please do ask. I will be glad to explain. Shooter 16:22, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Why no test results these months?

Have you stoped reporting your blood test results?

Contact George for more specifics?

George, How can I contact you to get more information on your journey to your diabetes cure? I am curious to see if I too can 'cure' my high blood sugar using your method. I am unclear how use the Appropedia talk pages. Can you just email me at j3_dAtsymbol.pngearthlinkDot.pngnet?

Thank you and God Bless. JanatheHat

Appropriateness of Bible Quotes

I am curious what the usefulness of Bible Quotes is to this article. Is there a Appropedia policy regarding the use of religious materials on the page? Munimortal 13:01, 24 March 2011 (PST)

There's no explicit policy, but there probably should be one. My own feeling is that if someone has a particular perspective, it's ok to mention that; or if an organization is faith-based, it's ok to explain that aspect as part of the background. For personal projects/experience/research, then I feel it's appropriate if someone wants to put it in their background section, but not as a major focus of the article. And if someone wants to put something in their userspace, they would have more leeway to write what they want.
If we go with that policy, I think this page will need to be edited, with some of the religious material removed or moved to George's userspace, and I trust that George will understand this. How does that sound? --Chriswaterguy 17:43, 3 April 2011 (PDT)
What is the religion of Appropedia? If there is none, then irrelevant Bible quotes (or irrelevant quotes from any religious text) should not be in article space. I see no evidence that any particular supernatural being had anything to do with the results claimed. Would it be possible for Hindus or Muslims or atheists to be "cured" of diabetes? Or is the "cure" only available to followers of a particular sect of Christianity? The followers of many contradictory religions make miraculous claims, suggesting that if religion is having any effect, it isn't due to the doctrinal payload of a particular religion. Unless all but one religion is lying. --Teratornis 18:34, 19 April 2011 (PDT)
Please keep this a discussion of what belongs on Appropedia main article spaces and not a religious debate. I think it makes a lot of sense to move the religious parts directly relevant to George, to George's userspace. We also need to have a clear policy that is openly discussed... hopefully without attacks on religion. Teratornis and Chris probably know the best page to carry on that discussion. George, thank you for your continued contributions and for helping us to find the best course of action that couples personal beliefs on user pages and the scientific findings, methods and procedures, criteria, materials, background, and general how to in the article spaces.
Thanks, --Lonny 23:01, 19 April 2011 (PDT)
I have also similar feelings about the inappropriate mentioning of http://www.appropedia.org/Diabetes_mellitus_cured_-_George%27s_experience#Praise_The_LORD in this forum. And I doubt that one persons diary is sufficient as basis for a medical article. However it is of course nice that George seems to becoming better. --Yeahvle 02:18, 21 June 2011 (PDT)


On Bible quotes there

Hi Chris, Lonny,.....

Thank you very much for pointing out the difference of opinion on appropriateness of Bible quotes here. I have no intentions to use the Appropedia space for religious propaganda.

I didn't know about the objections raised through the talk page because there were no email alerts from there for quite some time now. Having known, I am modifying the section.

It is true that I wanted to express my gratitude in public for having made me think differently & leave the beaten track. That is why that section title was chosen. The sentences of the body of that section were to be seen as quotations from a book that has the maximum number of copies printed ever in human history. More over it was felt that those are the sentences that could be framed in the most precise form to express the ideas in my mind. I could not make sentences crispier than these to convey those ideas. The links are given to ascertain the genuineness of the source and text.

It is felt that as much as I am happy, you also might be happy about the popularity of the page. Now a Google search of the words LONG WHEAT brings title of this page as the FIRST of the 85,400,000 results. It literally surprised me. I had never even dreamt about things going to this proportion.

Noticing this popularity I was thinking of seeking your valuable opinion on launching a pilot project to cure persons who are in very advanced stages of the disease - viz. Diabetes. I have no idea about what all are to be done and how to go about.

The findings of Dr. Roy Taylor of the Newcastle University, UK have added trustworthiness to the contents of the page.

Thank you Chris, Lonny, Munimortal, Teratornis & Yeahvle.

Shooter 06:41, 19 August 2011 (PDT)

I understand that you find bible quotes very well written, but still, you have got so much quotes and irrelevant information in your article that I find extremely difficult to read the facts, and cant seem to follow the chronological events, because they are so scattered and all over the place. I do not need to read quotes about what scientists thought about trips to the moon, or said about unrelated things. Your article is about Diabetes mellitus and long wheat, and try as hard as possible to focus on that topic. And try to write an abstract at the top of the page, that summarize the article and its results, that would help to get more understanding from other readers.
And I would really like to know how you interpret the lab results from january and february of 2007 as compared to the latest results? What was your diet at that time? --Yeahvle 00:38, 21 August 2011 (PDT)