Warning warning[edit source]
That big scary red warning seems to be a little bit out of proportion and rather more negative in tone than it needs to be. While I think much of the warning is sound it seems a bit much. Is there a similar big red warning on selecting tubing and containers for purified water?
This is not a medical site and as such few would expect medically perfect advice. There is unlikely to be many that will print a breast-pump unless they have some knowledge of how to use them. There are no references in the warning section making it look a little like scare mongering.
KalleP 02:43, 29 May 2012 (PDT)
- I'm letting Fixer (who added the notice) know about your comment - User talk:Fixer#Breast pump.
- It's true that many other pages are equally deserving of warnings (and in many cases a warning would be good). But I'd like to take the best from this, and use it to improve the page. We need a standard way of leaving comments that will actually be noticed, in an way that is understood to be collaborative and positive in intent. (I can speak for Fixer's positive intent, btw.)
- Parts of the warning could be removed as they're addressed.
- I'm also toning down the red to pink. --Chriswaterguy 23:33, 29 May 2012 (PDT)
- Agreed - I moved most of warning to a safety section and left in the primary design flaw in pink - which I agree is appropriate. I am not a particular expert on this either -- hopefully KalleP can correct the design flaw and tighten this design down. -- Fixer 06:25, 30 May 2012 (PDT)
I am not up to correcting 3D designs at this time. However the valve in at least one of the commercial breast pumps is there in large measure to assist with the flow of milk and management of the vacume (the bottle is vented) and not to prevent contamination. Though it will prevent milk flowing into the pump unit to protect the expensive/non-washed component if the bottle is tipped sideways. -- KalleP 06:08, 25 July 2012 (PDT)
- Nicely done, I think. KalleP, what do you think now? There is disagreement between different sections of the page, e.g. re petroleum jelly, but that makes sense if it's a work in progress. It will be helpful for those conflicting claims to be resolved. --Chriswaterguy 10:35, 19 June 2012 (PDT)
Also with regard to petroleum jelly/vaseline, it is about as inert a substance as one can buy at a pharmacy and can be eaten safely (unless it has lots of preservatives), to make it marketable it is highly refined and of a genrally high purity, the comments on the danger should have some kind of credible reference or be removed. Using it to seal joints is totally safe, however if the product has some taste then it contains other additives and should be avoided. Unspecified contaminants I would not waste money looking for.
I was just passing through so was helping out with an outside viewpoint, the current page is pretty ok, the Vaseline phobia is not serious enough to make a fuss over.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_paraffin_%28medicinal%29 -- KalleP 06:08, 25 July 2012 (PDT)
Is pasteurization necessary?[edit source]
Pardon my amateur questions, but I'm wondering about the need for pasteurization,W which has been added to the page. Is this always necessary? The only option? E.g. if the device is washed and air dried each time, and the baby drinks the milk immediately (i.e. no chance for bacteria to start growing in the milk) - how serious is the risk? Does it make a difference if the breastfeeding baby is already a month or two old?
Babies left to their own devices will eat dirt. And generally survive. (Not newborns though - they're just interested in milk.) In developing countries, they don't always have the same concept of sterilization - sometimes with bad consequences, but I suspect we go to far the other way. Not sure about this case. --Chriswaterguy 10:49, 19 June 2012 (PDT)
Just to add to what is in my next comment. With good hygiene (wash and dry) the unit should last as long as a baby bottle or teat except for the fact that FFD 3D printing has generally got voids that may trap material. Dipping the parts into acetone (which evaporates completely) to seal the surface will help a lot in this regard for certain plastics. Breast milk will remain fresh for much longer than milk formula at room temperature and immediate use will prevent any bacterial proliferation unless the pump unit was badly soiled with bacteria. -- KalleP 06:19, 25 July 2012 (PDT)
I think this page should be read in the spirit I think it is intended.
It is a research note on what may become possible and maybe commonplace one day.
As I mentioned in my first edit to this discussion people should take what they can and those who are likely to use it (3D enthusiasts/proponents and breastfeeding advocates) are likely to get information or support from other parties as they are seldom going to be the same person.
The beauty of being able to print something from nothing is you can do it again. Using a new pump would mean it is always clean.
There are times when the milk is not intended to be used for feeding and as such the sterility is not of any interest (therapeutic clearing of blocked milk ducts in the nipple or temporary pumping while on medication that is not recommended for lactating moms).
The Pretoria pasteurisation focuses on the simplicity of actual pasteurisation processes that can be done in the field with minimal training and equipment. Another key aspect of it is that it does the minimal amount of damage to the milk as it uses a limited time and limited temperature (controlled by the temperature and volume of the heating water versus the milk amount). Remember this is to deactivate the HI virus (and it will do some others too I expect) and not to remove regular environmental pathogens or prepare breast milk for long term storage. The skin and airborne bacteria that are ubiquitous are needed by the baby to program their immune system in the early life, removing all these is not recommended. The minimally pasteurised breast milk contains a host of the mothers antibodies that are environmentally appropriate and will counteract all the regular bugs.
However given the quality of a random 3d printer it is difficult to expect that the surface finish of the printed part will be smooth enough to be reliably cleaned many times. Steam sterilisation would likely do the job but eventually there will be a build-up of milk solids that will harbour bacterial growth unless the unit is kept very dry between uses. I personally think that short term use (a week or two with careful washing) would be reasonably safe and long term use would be rather less safe.
Best is to feed directly on the breast but if this is not possible this printed pump may save a life one day. In western countries there is easy access to commercial breast pumps and they would be the simpler choice in most cases.
Also we should note that while virgin plastics are typically pretty inert there are MANY additives (sometimes used in baby bottles for years) that are found in commercial grade plastics. Choice of plastic should be mentioned, while PLA is often available in food grade and generally approved by the FDA for use in food applications this is not automatically true for all sources. Other plastics may be more reliable or safer for many reasons, however the dwell time of the milk in the pump is also so low that I would be happy to use almost any virgin plastic if well washed before use in this application. KalleP 06:25, 25 July 2012 (PDT)