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User talk:Lonny

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If you are logged in, click the + sign next to the edit tab above to leave me a message. Or just click edit if you are not logged in. --Lonny (see also User_talk:Lonny/Archive for many past discussions)


Lonny: Podcast Update

We've just published an interview with professor Anil Gupta of the Honeybee Network. Very interesting, I think you would enjoy it.


I would be more than happy to do a similar one on one with you, or a more open format with other members at appropedia. Just let me know. Looking forward to it...frank [at] agroinnovations.com

Your thoughts requested...

at User_talk:Chriswaterguy#Greenlivingpedia interwiki. Thanks.

I was going to request input from the moderator of Category:Alternative building, but then I realized we don't have one yet...

Perhaps we should invite Peter to be moderator for Category:Sustainable buildings, which could have Category:Alternative building as a subcat. --Chriswaterguy · talk 16:02, 16 March 2007 (PDT)

Photovoltaics how-to?

What do you think about moving much of Category:Photovoltaics to a how-to? --Chriswaterguy · talk 02:53, 4 April 2007 (PDT)

Hi Chris, Great question. I have thinking about what to do with these types of pages. I do not think moving it to a how to is the best idea, as I feel that how tos should be followable step-by-step methods. I do think that the amount of content on Photovoltaics hides the category links below. Here are a two possible solutions:
  1. Create a standard _______ basics, for each category page. In this case, Category:Photovoltaics would have a prominent link to Photovoltaic basics.
  2. Move the subcategories and pages above the content. There is a mediawiki extension that does just that.
I would like to develop a standard. I think that #1 sounds best so far. Do you have any ideas?
When we do come up with a standard, we need to think about what is appropriate on a category page. If we have no text on category pages (as is the standard on some wikis) then we have users needing to click again to find any real information. If we do have text, how much and what type?
Thank you, --Lonny 19:21, 4 April 2007 (PDT)
Yep... #1 is a variation on the Wikipedia approach, and I can see the reason for it. I also see why it makes sense to take a different approach, and keep the topic and categories both high profile, since we have multiple content types.
I need to think more about this. --Chriswaterguy · talk 02:04, 24 April 2007 (PDT)
The top of any topic page would have a template notice something like "For more pages on this topic, see the Sanitation category. That works well.
I'm not sure whether to use "XYZ basics" or just have the page name = topic name. This is Wikipedia's approach, albeit in a context of only one content type to deal with. It also makes the abovementioned template workable using {{PAGENAME}}. And I'm not sure yet whether the info will necessarily be basic and would rather let that question be answered organically. --Chriswaterguy · talk 05:48, 24 April 2007 (PDT)
I like this discussion of moving the hefty content to a separate page. Low-content category pages are fine (essentially, a few sentences describing the nature of the category), and don't need a separate page. As for naming, I have a slight bias toward using the same name, as WP does, but to me this is a detail. Of course, it's a detail that needs to be worked out :-). But as long as the naming is algorithmic (standardized), it shouldn't be too hard to alter the algorithm. I think there ought to be a way to write some template that points to the page if it exists, but I could be mistaken about that. Also, since if there is no page, then the category name wants to be a redirect (I think), and that could spoil the "if exists" test... Anyway, I'm getting lost in implementation details. --CurtB 10:07, 24 April 2007 (PDT)
I'm now leaning strongly towards this change, after thinking about how we deal with topics with multiple aspects - whether the topic deserves subcategories and whether it deserves multiple pages on different aspects, are not quite the same question. It's also easier to create topic pages if we don't have to think so hard about how it fits with the category system.
Shall we make this our new policy, at Appropedia:Topic content? We'll also need to adjust pages and sections such as Appropedia:Categories#Topic_categories Run it past major topic contributors, and Appropedia team members including User:Vinay Gupta and User:On2Leggs before making the changes? --Chriswaterguy · talk 19:03, 29 April 2007 (PDT)
What about the option of topic pages in mainspace, with the category tree (perhaps in a standard template) at the bottom of every such page? The drawback I can see is that I don't know if the category tree can list actual pages - only subcategories. Actually, is that a drawback, as long as we have clear links to the subcategories, with an explanatory note?
Looking at mw:Extension:CategoryTree, maybe we can use {{#categorytree:{{PAGENAME}}}}, if the pagename is consistent with the cat name. Note: I'm not wedded to the idea - just exploring it. --Chriswaterguy · talk 03:11, 27 November 2007 (PST)

Promote feed-back from user to designer


Please help me out! The original, self-made/designed/originated material I contribute to society through the website of my foundation Demotech (www.demotech.org) is also ported by Appropedia. This I highly value for two reasons:

  • Outgoing:

To be among the mind stuff of people with a similar mindset, to have an opportunity to be inspired, to learn in general

  • Incoming:

To create the opportunity for feed back from users. This world needs rapid development of any item of Appropriate Technology. Without a mechanism of DIRECT and EFFECTIVE feedback from users on content such as what Demotech offers, further development of this content may stagnate. However, when feedback opportunities are provided this development may soar!

For this reason the sole condition for use of Demotech designs is to provide a link back to its origin attached to the information from Demotech. And please, let this link not only contain name and (web)-address of the author, but also a few lines that the author expects explicit and detailed feedback as a rightful reward for its otherwise freely to be used contribution.
As I looked at Creative Commons Licenses, I found the license 'Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0' that seemed somehow to answer what I look for. However not with the specific request condition as named.
I fully realize this condition can not be enforced in practice. Similar as the condition to pay for 'share ware'. But non the less it should be a condition that remains attached to the content as it spreads.

Three questions:

  • Is the 'Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0' -license endorsed by Appropedia?
  • Where can I find earlier discussions on the topic of feed back on behalf of continuous development?
  • Where is info to be found on how design-communities may best originate and function on Internet?

Thanks for a rapid response!
--Demotech, design 14:03, 16 April 2007 (PDT) Reinder/Demotech

Hi Reinder,
Great to hear from you. I hope you received the email from my students. Your comments and questions are excellent and extremely pertinent. As requested, I am reposting your comments to the Village Pump for group discussion to follow. We are also considering starting a forum, so that it is easier for even more people to be involved.
Appropedia uses the GNU-FDL license. Here are our conversations on the topic of license - Appropedia_talk:Copyrights. Please feel free to add your comments there, where a more focused group can respond.
Thank you, --Lonny 18:51, 11 April 2007 (PDT)
To sign your comments use the following code: --~~~~
Lonny, hello!
Thanks for help and hope more clearity will come. And yes, I received the mail conserning the [=NightReader=]. I'll come back to it soon.
--Demotech, design 14:03, 16 April 2007 (PDT) Reinder

main page counter?

Lonny -- it looks like the main page counter has been stuck on ~58k for awhile -- is this correct? Is it counting? I tried reloading it and nothing changed - only one hit per ip? Cheers - Joshua ps - love the new chicken highlight

Hi Joshua,
If you mean 56k, it may look stuck because the counter stays in the cache during a normal refresh, but it will reload on a hard refresh. Use Shift-Refresh in Firefox and see if that works. If you mean 58k our numbers are different and we should discuss it further.
Glad you like the new chicken highlight.
PS you can sign your posts using 4 tildes (~~~~) --Lonny 22:23, 19 May 2007 (PDT)

Demotech contribution

Lonny, hi!
Thanks for your feed back. I have to study it thoroughly. Specially as I am not yet fully used to the Appropedia set up.
Whatever choice is made, it will be a tremendous lot of work to do all the porting to the right places. There seems to be a MediaWiki template that would well go together with the Research template. A friend of mine tries to find it.
All together it seems best to follow fate: go slow, make mistakes and hopefully then find a better way!

Great plan. I look forward to feedback. It will be a lot of work, but we have some techniques that make it easier. Here is a link to the entire topic category structure of Appropedia. -Lonny 02:25, 1 June 2007 (PDT)


I know very little how these kinds of sites work, and can't figure out how to make this suggestion otherwise: I'd like to see Gender as one of the categories under Culture and Community, if not its own listing under the main topics-areas listing.

Hi Jayne,
Thank you for your great suggestion. I responded on your talk page. Thank you, --Lonny 22:10, 13 July 2007 (PDT)

stats for GEM_mosquito_control

Hi Lonny,

Georgedappilly had a question about stats for GEM_mosquito_control:

By the way is it possible to get any details about those who visit the page. So far 714 visits are there!

Cheers --Chriswaterguy · talk 03:10, 22 July 2007 (PDT)

Actually I'd like to know how to access this for pages in general. Just noticed that Washing and drying clothes has had 1256 page views, which isn't bad, and I'd be interested to know where people have come from, so we can learn from it.

I also just noticed that my user page is 10th most viewed on the stats page, no doubt because I use it in my signature on blogs and other sites. I'll have to put more effort into giving people links when they arrive there. --Chriswaterguy · talk 05:50, 22 July 2007 (PDT)

Mandatos y Preguntas

¿Porqué no tienes un foto nuevo en tu pagina? Mas importante, ¿¡¿Porqué no hay un spell check en Appropedia?!? —The preceding comment was added by Waterfaery72 (talkcontribs) 12:04, 29 July 2007

Gracias para tus dudas. Voy a hacer un nuevo foto para mi pagina muy pronto. Y para spell check, I suggest using the excellent web-browser Firefox. Here is a portable version (will work on a thumb drive) and here is a install version, both will spell check inside of Appropedia. --Lonny 12:29, 29 July 2007 (PDT)

Muy pronto, mis nalgas!

Kiva, Kivapedia and microfinance

Hey Lonny,

I've been looking around trying to get a feel for how I could best contribute to Appropedia. I'm not an expert in any of the fields covered here, just a fan who likes to edit wikis. :-) In terms of Kiva, etc., I made a few simple edits to test out the connections. They work great.

As far as articles go, there doesn't seem to be much here related to microfinance. You also seem to uses categories like that one as main articles. :-) So I was wondering, do you approve of "importing" Wikipedia articles with trans-wiki links? If that's okay, I would be willing to add "Kiva" and "microfinance" articles. Also, do you add articles about related wikis? If it's a yes on that, I also could start a little something about Kivapedia.

As another "connections" idea, people in the Kiva Friends community often send Kiva gift certificates to folks, e.g., Gift Certificate to Celebrities to get the microlending ball rolling in a new area. If you know of a sizable group of folks here or elsewhere, and they would be willing to form a "lender group," I would be willing to bankroll the "first" loan (a whopping $25! ;-) if the group finds a way to match it. Then we could add "Appropedians for Kiva" (or whatever) to the List of Kiva Group Lenders! ;-) Regards, RichardF 14:25, 1 August 2007 (PDT)

Hi Richard - haven't responded to your comment on my talk page yet and I'm busy at Wikimania, so I'll take the liberty of make some quick comments here on Lonny's talk page.
  • We use the {{Wikipedia}} template to link to encyclopedic content, rather than duplicating it here.
  • We would love more content on microfinance, and Kiva. My friend from the Grameen Foundation (Australia) has told me good things about Kiva.
  • We did have a policy of using categories as topic articles - I think we agreed to change the policy a while ago but haven't carried it out yet.
  • I see no problem adding stuff about Kivapedia - we like to interlink where appropriate, and in some cases have merged (e.g. with WikiGreen.org) where we were covering the same ground. It may be that the WikiNode is the best place to add that info, but that's not a hard and fast rule.
  • Welcome to Appropedia! --Chriswaterguy · talk 21:12, 1 August 2007 (PDT)

Okay, I really don't have any new content to add and I already added the basics to WikiNode. Let me know if you're interested in loaning as a group. RichardF 05:01, 2 August 2007 (PDT)

Think I erased a photo of yours on accident

I was uploading a photo and called it Batchsolar.jpg

Accidentally clicked ok when it asked me if I wanted to replace one with the same name. Don't know where the picture is linked to. Thought I'd let you know.


Hi Matt,
Thanks for the heads up. You saved over a photo that you had uploaded, so no problem. If you click the image and go the image page (http://www.appropedia.org/Batchsolar.jpg) you can see the past versions and see what pages use the photo.
--Lonny 19:09, 6 August 2007 (PDT)
PS You can sign your name using 4 tildes (~~~~).

Adobe Schmadobe

So I think I got the page to be a little more PC like you asked. Also put up the new floorplan. If that all looks good it's just about done, though we do have a couple building pictures to put up it's really difficult since Jaqui's gone and Hannah and I don't have a flash drive or a cord...anyway it's hard to get that stuff together and tomorrow's my last day in Parras, so let me know what you think so that I can fix things up before I take off. Thanks Lonny, hope you're feeling better...and I heard you ran into Richard in DF! La changa 14:48, 7 August 2007 (PDT)

Thanks for the template fix

...and the welcome! I wasn't sure if you had a welcome template yet so I reckoned I'd make one - moved it to Template:Welcome and made it a bit more generic (see demo below). Mchua 20:11, 18 August 2007 (PDT)

Actually, it's probably better to look at Template:Welcome - or pop {{subst:Welcome|yourusername}} into a new user's page to see it at work. But it should work for everyone now, so hopefully we'll see a welcome-wagon phenomenon. On a somewhat related note, Chriswaterguy and I was talking about the entry barrier for new contributors to wikis (especially folks working on appropriate technology) so I'm trying to delve into the code that WikiHow uses to make its interface more user-friendly in the hopes of generalizing it to an extension (it's currently custom hacks embedded into their php, so they tell me). Mchua 20:15, 18 August 2007 (PDT)
Great template! And there has been a resulting ramped up welcome wagon phenomenon. Thank you for the help on lowering the wiki-tech bar for new users. I look forward to making Appropedia easier to use for the many people that balk at our archaic code. Thank you, --Lonny 11:04, 26 August 2007 (PDT)



Welcome to the Appropedia wiki. Please make yourself at home! If you need a general wiki-tutorial, Wikieducator has some excellent ones.

Check your preferences and be sure you verify your email address and turn on email notification if you'd like it -- you can find out when your talk page, or any page on your watchlist, is modified. You may want to upload a photo or information about yourself to your userpage (which is at http://appropedia.org/User:YourUsername).

If you have a particular interest or project in mind, go ahead and start it! Feel free to leave me a note on my talk page if you have further questions, need help finding your way around, have a cool idea for a project, or just want to chat. You can also call, text, or email me anytime; more contact information is on my user page.

Glad to have you here!


Thank you...

Hey Lonnie... thanks for the formatting tips- was definately needed and certainly appreciated. Thanks and have a beautiful day... -a.

Glad to help. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you --Lonny 16:25, 16 September 2007 (PDT)

News from Demotech, at last...

Lonny, hello!
I found new web master who has a pretty good idea how to approach the transfer of info from Demotech to Appropedia. As ideas are now, this guy Robert, will make a script to transfer of the Demotech content just and only the 'Why" and "How" of the first page of each design page also with the pictures that belong to this info. So this is just to give visitors at Appropedia a taste of what is could be, then to click through to the Demotech site.
The big idea is that I want to be able to steer and animate further development of the design ideas presented by Demotech. I can't have that at Appropedia, so I want to have a place that I can manage myself. I do not yet know how I can work this out with my webmaster Robert, it should be some content managment system close to that of Appropedia. Anyway I want to make sure further linking up to Appropedia remains easy at the very moment that's Appropriate!
Soon you will hear more!
Greetings, Reinder

Hi Reinder,
Great to hear from you. Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help the movement. Keep up your great work. Look forward to hearing from you soon. --Lonny 18:10, 16 September 2007 (PDT)

Hi Lonny - the banner at the bottom of GEM mosquito control gives me more credit than I deserve or want, just because I created the page (with a few lines). Can we do anything about this? --Chriswaterguy · talk 06:17, 28 September 2007 (PDT)

Contributor notice

Hi Lonny - the banner at the bottom of GEM mosquito control ("This page was last modified 21:34, 21 July 2007 by E.M.George. Based on work by Chris Watkins and Anonymous user(s) of Appropedia.") gives me more credit than I deserve or want, just because I created the page (with a few lines). Can we do anything about this? --Chriswaterguy · talk 06:19, 28 September 2007 (PDT)

I am sure that there is someway to do this in the database, but I think the best fix right now is probably a work around:
We have E.M.George create a new page, maybe GEM mosquito control system, then copy the content there and make the old page forward to this new page.
Alternatively, we copy the content, delete the page, have E.M.George create the page again and the paste the content back into the page. I think that this will hide the history even further, but both ways should return the banner to its correct crediting state.
What do you think?
--Lonny 07:50, 28 September 2007 (PDT)
Good plan. I would normally be concerned to preserve history, but in this case it's basically George, with very little by me. A couple of minor edits by an anon or two, who may be the same as George.
We can keep the same name for the new page, simply by having George move the old page, and create the new page on top of the redirect. We can then delete the moved old page (noting that the history is accessible to admins through the deletion log, if desired). Does that make sense? --Chriswaterguy · talk 10:10, 1 October 2007 (PDT)
Sounds good, when should we do this? --Lonny 11:07, 13 October 2007 (PDT)
I haven't been watching changes very well lately - with the wiki being so active, I think it's best to reply on my talk page from now on.
After checking Appropedia submission for BFI prize, I realized that my analysis of the problem was wrong - who created the page has no impact. Each person is mentioned only once, even if they are both the creator and the most recent editor. I made a small edit on the GEM page, and now the names are reversed - "This page was last modified... by Appropedia user Chriswaterguy. Based on work by E.M.George and Anonymous user(s) of Appropedia." Perhaps the "last modified by" is not a desirable feature of the notice - this is just one bit of information without context, and more complete info is readily available anyway, by clicking history. If a simpler banner is available, I'd support using that (but no rush). --Chriswaterguy · talk 10:32, 28 October 2007 (PDT)

Glad to be here.


Appropedia is great. I've wanted to do this project since 1987 when I was a graduate student in anthropology studying economic development. Appropriate technology was all the buzz then, but ideas didn't move much. I hope that is all changing now. I've registered with appropedia and hope I can contribute.

Back then I wanted a central facility in which people could create and disseminate interactive records of development ideas: projects, appropriate technologies, managerial techniques, etc. The facility would have the ideas, how they worked on the ground immediately and over time, observations by planners and locals, spin offs, lessons learned, etc. Then the whole lot would be available to anyone. Of course, back then this was impossible. Now you have it.

A colleague of mine and I are particularly interested in dispersal of small scale development ideas into areas of low computer concentration: PNG for example. I've spoken with one of the old development professors there and worked up some ideas.

Since 1987, I have spent 5 years in social work, earned a Ph.D. in economics, and advanced as an academic in Australia concentrating on other fields. But I am eager now to return to my old love of economic development.

How can my ideas fit in to appropedia? Do you know of people currently working on getting appropedia information into areas with few computers?

Cheers, Chris Geller

Hi Chris,
Thank you for your encouraging feedback. Your ideas fit perfectly into Appropedia. The administrator most connected with getting Appropedia information into areas with few computers is Chriswaterguy.
I think that we may be served by having this conversation over email. Although it does lack the transparency of the wiki, we have a few other colleagues, with interest in this area, that reply more via email. Please email me at LonnyAtsymbol.pngAppropediaDot.pngorg to further this exciting conversation. You may be interested in the following pages: Low cost computer guide, User:Chriswaterguy/OLPC_frontpage, Collaboration to produce offline content. These pages are different from but related to what you are discussing.
Welcome to Appropedia and welcome back to economic development, we look forward to talking and hopefully working with you, --Lonny 11:04, 13 October 2007 (PDT)

Slashes in page names?

Hi Lonny,

Was just leaving a note for Steve about Lemon douches for HIV prevention, when I came up with this issue: I thought about a rename to "Lemon and lime douches..." but that sounds like a mixture of the two is required; "Lemon or lime douches..." sounds like a comparison is being made. "Lemon/lime douches..." is probably best, but it looks like a subpage. Looking like a subpage is possibly not a problem, but I wanted to get your views. --Chriswaterguy · talk 00:23, 24 October 2007 (PDT)

Hi Chris,
My take is that we should reserve slashes for subpages. How about a dash, e.g. Lemon-lime douches?
Thank you, --Lonny 00:49, 24 October 2007 (PDT)
Lemon-lime still sounds like a cocktail to me :). Will think on it. --Chriswaterguy · talk 13:18, 25 October 2007 (PDT)
One issue with the title "Lemon/lime douches" is that (I think) there will be a breadcrumb trail back to the page "Lemon" linked at the top of the page. I think that "Lemon and lime douches", while ambiguous, is okay. If lemon and lime didn't go together so well, in cocktails :), I do not think it would be as misleading. Think "Orange and apple flavored beverages" this allows for mixed or separate beverages, whereas "Orange and apple flavored beverage" must be mixed (and gross). --Lonny 23:47, 25 October 2007 (PDT)


Re your sig at Talk:Lemon douches for HIV prevention... i think there was a typo - fives tildes (~~~~~) make a date with no username (13:18, 25 October 2007 (PDT)). -Chriswaterguy · talk 13:18, 25 October 2007 (PDT)

Thanks. I fixed it. --Lonny 11:13, 28 October 2007 (PDT)


Thanks for your words in my talk page. I'd like to help you translating the information you have about photovoltaic systems. I want to learn building my own small PV system and i think that is a very good way to learn the theory. I see you are also interested on PV. In case that I don't understand something, may I ask you questions about PV design and calculations?, :)--Javier Carro 05:17, 18 November 2007 (PST)

Hi Javier,
Please feel free to ask me questions. I have supervised, designed and built quite a few solar applications (plus I teach it at University). One of the questions I will probably not be able to help much with, is rules and rebates in your area. Where are you located? I have had a hand (sometimes very small) in the majority of the photovoltaic projects (including these Spanish translations) here on Appropedia, and Joshua did the quite excellent Solar Photovoltaic Open Lectures - he may be amenable to questions.
I look forward to watching the photovoltaic page be translated. The content on that page is too much for a category page, so we were planning on renaming it something like Photovoltaic basics (we are still working on the policy). Please feel free to name your page how ever you would like, and we will make sure it fits.
Thank you for your fantastic work, --Lonny 09:57, 18 November 2007 (PST)
 :) Sorry, I didn't notice you answered me back here. Thanks a lot. As soon as I have time I will be looking to all this material. You also can ask me for translating something you consider of high relevance. By the way, at the moment I live in Zürich. I was thinking of using this website to calculate the inclination and orientation of the modules.
I will ask you my first question: do you know some schematics to make your own DC-DC 12 to 19 volts converter? I want to build one but until now I didn't find anyone in internet. --Javier Carro 04:44, 24 November 2007 (PST)
Yo respondí en tu página. --Lonny 19:24, 24 November 2007 (PST)


Hey Lonny!

Thanks for the nice note. I appreciate the additions you made to the article, as well as the kind words about my story. I'm hoping to make more contributions soon, since I've been reading a whole damn lot about soil health...


--Krystle 20:58, 23 November 2007 (PST)


I am responding to the message you left me.

I have been to Arcata a couple of times traveling with my sweetie who was a student at HSU and in GreenWheels. She and I met at Lost Valley Educational Center about a year and a half ago.. I dont believe we have met IRL. I appreciate you reading my LiveJournal. Maybe we will meet in the future. I look forward to that day. My sweetie has a sister and her dad that live still in Arcata so we will be there again, Im sure. Peace, Rkmlai 13:31, 5 December 2007 (PST)


Dear Lonny: Would you please take a look at http://www.wfs.org/innovate.htm? It's about an idea for a global data base of MODELS that could help us transform the world in record time. There is an obvious relationship to Appropedia, which I mention in the article. I'd love to have someone pick up my idea for implementation. It's being called "world changing," a very worthwhile idea that deserves implementing (Global Mind-Shift) and something that MUST be implemented(by Reinvenintingmoney.com and blog) Do you think there is any chance that this idea could be an expansion for your organization? Thanks for your attention. Alice Holstein Mack, Ed.D.

Hello Alice,
Thank you for your note. I love your idea, and after reading your idea at WFS I feel like Appropedia is a great fit. Appropedia does seek to house models and best practices. I think that you will find many of them listed under Organizations, such as Potawot. Your proposals definitely brings awareness to how we present ourselves, it seems that we appear to be only physical artifact focused, which is not the case. In addition, it makes me realize that we should probably start a category for Models. We had discussed having some kind of expert ranking of models, but we have not implemented any tool or process like that yet. Let's continue discussions about how we could better serve models that make the world a better place? Please feel free to email me at lonnyAtsymbol.pngappropediaDot.pngorg. I will post this response at wfs as well.
Thank you,--Lonny 13:58, 23 January 2008 (PST)


Thanks Lonny. I'll just finish up the pdf files I'm already working on and then I'll move on to other documents as Chris suggested. --Fatima 12:40, 29 January 2008 (PST)

Thank you. Keep up the great work. --Lonny 12:58, 29 January 2008 (PST)

Thanks Lonny! It looks good. --Fatima 20:46, 29 January 2008 (PST)

Scientific method on Appropedia?

Hi Lonny. I'm new here. First of all, thanks for this great project!
A question: I've been editing Wikipedia for a while, and there's a continuing discussion (aka war) there on the extent to which content needs to be governed by the scientific method and mainstream science, vs accepting "alternative science", "traditional wisdom", etc.
I'm especially concerned about this because of the likelihood of people furnishing harmful misinformation - it's bad enough when people say that you can build a 5 mw cold fusion generator out of paper clips and twine, but when people start posting that chicken soup cures AIDS or the like, I worry about the possibility of serious harm.
Can you please give me some idea what the policy/guideline/"stance" of Appropedia is on this issue?
- I see that Chriswaterguy wrote at Appropedia:Neutral point of view: "Appropedia also places a strong emphasis on scientific fact and Rigor," so I'm also going to ask him about this. Thanks -- Writtenonsand 06:27, 15 February 2008 (PST)

Drought Myth: We definitely have copyleft?

Hi Lonny. I just went through and wikified Drought Myth, but now looking at it I'm not 100% sure that we were formally given copyleft to it.

It says "Source: Reprinted and shared freely by the copyright holder at http://selfmadefarmer.wordpress.com/", and was apparently originally posted to Appropedia by User:Krystle, who is "apparently" the owner of selfmadefarmer.wordpress.com . We're sure that this was intended to be placed under the GFDL by the owner? selfmadefarmer.wordpress.com doesn't seem to have any copyright/licensing info.

I'm probably being a little paranoid about this, but my experience with copyright, attribution, and editing articles on wikis suggests that that's often a good idea.

-- Writtenonsand 07:27, 19 February 2008 (PST)

Here's another: Methane: "Portions (cc) S.E.E.D.S. under Creative Commons".
What's "cc"? I can't find any relevant definition. "Creative Commons"? If "copyright" or some non-GFDL license, then this content can't appear on Appropedia, right? Is Creative Commons 100% compatible with GFDL? (Again, only asking because of the blood I've seen these issues shed in the past.) -- Writtenonsand 07:48, 19 February 2008 (PST)
Hi Writtenonsand,
Krystle is the creator of Drought Myth and intended to release it GFDL (by my understanding). Methane is another story. There is a strong chance (again, by my understanding) that GFDL and CC will merge enough that Wikipedia can switch to CC. If that does not happen soon, we will probably start dual licensing content (images can already be CC). Until then, we should probably remove/rewrite the content under Methane. Thank you for your vigilance, it is probably a good idea. And thank you even more for your great impact here at Appropedia so far. --Lonny 12:03, 19 February 2008 (PST)
Thanks again to you for all your help. -- Writtenonsand 18:53, 19 February 2008 (PST)

editing umbrella solar cooking page

hi lonny
i just worked on my page for a little while, editing some of your suggestions. thank you for those! i was wondering if you want me to try to imput a table for the budget, or if there is a way to copy the one i turned in to you via a word document. also wanted to let you know that a better timeline is coming soon. and i wanted to send you a message via appropedia to try it out. thanks!
Meganhelms 11:43, 10 March 2008 (PDT)

Community discussion template

We are the [ Appropedia ] community and we are [ Working in Public ] [ add your entry ]

This was worth a try, but time to declare the experiment over. No one else used it, and it's time to try something else. See conversation at User talk:Lonny#Forum.

I believe we need to try plain old, simple, user-friendly forum software, as we've been discussing internally (options at Appropedia:Forum), plus our Bettermeans workstream for task management, and possibly have a Contributors' homepage as more of a jumping off point for "how to contribute and where to discuss". --Chriswaterguy 21:51, 7 April 2011 (PDT)

  • There has been a dramatic improvement in the guinea worm situation in Sudan. Since the end of the war there has been "a revamped government-led project distributing vital barriers against the disease. These include more than one million pipe filters and nearly half a million cloth filters."Fighting the 'fiery serpent' in Sudan, abc.net.au, Jun 6, 2008 --Chriswaterguy 16:43, 9 June 2008 (PDT)
  • We want a channel somewhere for people to add tidbits of content they don't have time to explore in a full article. ideally with an RSS feed, that people could watch, and that could be sent via twitterfeed to a community account. The Appropedia forum could be best for that once it's going. I'll do it here for now, starting with a good news story from Sudan. --Chriswaterguy 16:43, 9 June 2008 (PDT)
  • I see that AboutUs doesn't use this "WikiBox" on their user talk page, and I think that's wise - otherwise people may go to their task page, read the box, and not notice the personal messages below it. Best for community pages, and optionally for user pages. --Chriswaterguy · talk 18:53, 13 March 2008 (PDT)
    • I like "Community discussion box" - WikBoxsounds more generic. --Chriswaterguy · talk 19:05, 13 March 2008 (PDT)
  • Hi Chris, glad you find this idea interesting. I came up with it with a few people 4 months ago and am pretty excited by it. If you haven't seen http://aboutus.org/WikiBox - check out some of the thought. Would love to talk more about how I see it being used. Best, MarkDilley
    • Looks like a major boost to communication among the whole community, which has been a weakness of wikis till now. --Chriswaterguy · talk 18:53, 13 March 2008 (PDT)
  • One of the ideas we've had for this at AboutUs.org is that there would be many WikiBoxes for different communities on the site, and that people could transclude them on their personal pages, whichever ones they wanted, so each person would have their own personal dashboard, and not have to remember to go check different places. Kind of like an RSS reader for blogs, except more wiki. :-) -- TedErnst 06:18, 13 March 2008 (PDT)
  • Newer threads start on top. (This could get confusing - a good reason to try a now talk page format, perhaps.) --Chriswaterguy · talk 19:47, 12 March 2008 (PDT)
    • As always, comments need headers or something else to give structure. At AboutUs they use bullets (like I've done here - that makes line spacing more regular as well). Another possibility is a new Talk page format.--Chriswaterguy · talk 19:47, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

Community discussion template

Trying out a new template, {{working in public}} - looks nifty. --Chriswaterguy · talk 19:00, 12 March 2008 (PDT)

It's working... do we want to use it on Appropedia, on our talk pages and relevant community pages? --Chriswaterguy · talk 19:20, 12 March 2008 (PDT)
I should add: I think it could use a lot of adapting for Appropedia, but I wanted to get feedback on the concept.
Probably the page transcluded here should be the Village pump. --Chriswaterguy · talk 19:47, 12 March 2008 (PDT)
Something similar could be done for any of the community discussion pages. --Chriswaterguy · talk 19:47, 12 March 2008 (PDT)


Hi Lonnie, Bob Metcalf started teaching part time last year in the microbiology dept at Sac State in order to have more time to work on his solar water testing and pasteurization projects in Kenya. You can reach him at bobmetcalfcsusAtsymbol.pngyahooDot.pngcom. He is in Sacramento for the moment due to the troubles in Kenya.

Regards, Pat McArdle Arlington, Va

Hi Pat,
Thank you. I think I will buy a couple prefab ones (sounds much easier) and also look into getting some of the wax, as we may want to build it straight into a solar pasteurizer. Thank you, Lonny 00:47, 18 March 2008 (PDT)

fixing article sections

Hi Lonny,

I was wondering if you could help with a problem that one of my students is having. She started translating an article on a waterless toilet, but instead of clicking on the "edit" tab at the top of the page, she clicked on "edit" for each section. Thus, each section of the English article appears on the "Artikel auf deutsch" page as a separate article. If you could help us figure out how to merge all the sections into one article, that would be great. The student's username is Veritas19.

Thanks! Nell ter Horst

Hi Nell,
It is all fixed now. See Weniger Wasser Toilette for the compiled version and Waterless Toilet for the cleaned up English version. I just copied each section that the student created and pasted it into the full Weniger Wasser Toilette document. We should talk about how appropedia could help prevent this from happening in the future... maybe screencast tutorials are in order. We have really enjoyed watching the Deutsch content grow. Please feel free to contact me via email to discuss any of this (lonnyAtsymbol.pngappropediaDot.pngorg). Thank you, --Lonny 03:14, 20 March 2008 (PDT)

Extensions to Watch

thanks for your work on the front page

I just wanted to say good job, I like the additions. david.Reber (too lazy to log in :-)

I should also mention that at at 11:30 california time, Appropedia is quite slow

Hi David,
Thanks for the kudos on the front page. I am glad you like the changes. We have many more to come, but the live content is a good start. The site is randomly slow... we are currently working on that. I really appreciate the update, --Lonny 00:44, 3 April 2008 (PDT)
I love it, and blogged on it: Keeping the team informed. (The blog is now on Planet Wikimedia.)
What do you think of an announcements box for the front page - a smaller slimmer version of Community discussion template? --Chriswaterguy (talk) 02:29, 10 April 2008 (PDT)
Good idea. Here are some questions:
  • Are you thinking that it would replace the Announcements spot currently on the front page?
  • Would readers be able to scroll through past announcements?
  • Would only admins be able to edit the page the announcements feed from?
  • Are there any potential problems with the code that implements the scroll box, e.g. for visitors on old/slow connections?
Yes, yes, yes (but we'll have a clear place for suggestions), and no idea (I'll do a box up and get some testing done - incl asking my friends in Indo to try it out on their connection.). --Chriswaterguy 18:00, 11 April 2008 (PDT)
Thank you, --Lonny 13:24, 10 April 2008 (PDT)

With a little help from my friends ...

Lonny, hello!

Back from field work in Guatemala with the wish to report progress and experiences I encounter a few problems. Problem 1 is access to my account. It does not listen to what I remember to be its user name and password. Can you help me out?

The other problem is that of interest at Appropedia to upload or port the first four fields of Demotech's mySQL database, being title, short summary (2 lines), the 'Why' of the item (6 lines), the 'How' of the item (6 lines), 2 images, both in size 250 x 250 px and 500 x 500 px. plus the link to the corresponding 80 pages of http://www.demotech.org .

If Appropedia likes the idea, I hope it can be done automated. Soon Demotech's website will be restructured in a MediaWiki compatible format. My webmaster tells me such a transfer is then possible. Is it? And who should do it? Demotech (no expertise, little capacity) or people from Appropedia?

In July I expect to be back at Demotech's project location in Guatemala, lake Atitlan. That is not too far from your site in Mexico. Could there anything be coordinated? Students working with us in Guatemala? Demotech research done at the Mexico site? Taking part in Demotech's campaign for hyping the Hy2U hand washing device http://www.hy2U.org ?

Kind regards, Reinder van Tijen, Demotech, design for self-reliance

Hi Reinder,
Great to hear from you. I am glad to hear Guatemala went well. One of our board members, Cat is there now.
I think that we can find some Appropedia people to work on the porting, once it is in a mediawiki compatible format. As far as deeper collaboration, quite a few sites/organizations have moved their project pages off their own site and onto Appropedia. This allows for more continuity in project feedback/changes, less dilution of the pool of editors, less search engine demotion for duplicate content, more exposure for Demotech and Appropedia, and allows you to focus more on the projects themselves then on combating spam, technical issues, etc. Demotech would host the descriptions and maybe the rankings, and then link to Appropedia for editable details. Appropedia would link back to Demotech from each of the pages. Let me know what you think? We are very open to lots of ideas and look forward to our continued partnership.
I love the idea of us doing something together in July. Unfortunately my site is in Northern Mexico, quite far from Guatemala... but maybe there is some way to arrange it. I also think that many of my students, including here in the US, would love working on the Hy2U hand washing device. Let's talk more about this.
Your username is Demotech, design. I asked Appropedia to email you a password (from the login page). Let me know if it does not work.
Welcome back! I look forward to hearing more about Guatemala. --Lonny 19:25, 10 April 2008 (PDT)


This page is a link from another page. Can I change the page tittle without having to change anything from the main page( the one codes is a link from it). How can I change the name? I uploaded images in codes, how can I arrange the images and put them next to in what products they are used. Thanks--Doaa 12:06, 11 April 2008 (PDT)

Hi Doaa,
To move the page click the move tab at the top of the page and enter the new name. I.e. click the move tab at the top of Codes, then enter Plastic codes (or something like that) in the To new title: box. For Reason: enter "more specific name". Then everything should work. To make it even cleaner, replace the link to Codes at How is plastic recycled, with a link to the new page name.
I can think of two good ways to do what you want. One is with a gallery tag, the other is with tables. I made examples of these on the Codes page.
Please let me know if you have more questions. Keep up the great work. --Lonny 17:44, 11 April 2008 (PDT)

Hi, Thank you. It worked well.

Draft front page?

Do we still have this? I searched for /http://www.appropedia.org/Special:Search?search=welcome&go=Go welcome] but found nothing - not even Welcome to Appropedia! Puzzled... --Chriswaterguy 18:03, 11 April 2008 (PDT)

Hi Chris,
See Main Page tests. Blanked for search engine optimization reasons, but feel free to use to develop new additions to the front page. --Lonny 18:10, 11 April 2008 (PDT)

Appropedia Action Groups

Hello Lonny!

Some time ago, you left a comment on my talk page saying that you had connections to potential development projects. I am trying to compile a list of potential projects now as part of Appropedia Action Groups and was wondering if any of your connections would make good potential projects to add. --David.reber 17:45, 12 April 2008 (PDT)

Hi David,
I think that AIDG and Full Belly Project might be a good ones to start with. Thank you for your exciting work on the AAGs. --Lonny 13:01, 20 April 2008 (PDT)

Never ends

No problem. It seems this stuff never ends. —The preceding comment was added by Jthiller (talkcontribs) 00:17, 18 April 2008

Images Question

Lonny, I'm curious whether you want to keep higher res images or the lower res ones.

Low Res or High Res

Multiple pages use the lower resolution image, but I could switch them over.

-- Joey 13:33, 19 April 2008 (PDT)

Hi Joey,
I would rather keep the lower res image, as that resolution captures all the important details. Thank you for your awesome work. BTW you can use 4 tildes (~~~~) to automatically sign your messages... maybe you already figured that out. Thanks, --Lonny 12:26, 20 April 2008 (PDT)

re-rights and permission for conent

Dear Lonny,

The reason I put the bird descriptions in quotes is because I didn’t know if I needed to cite something that is altered in my own words. All of the descriptions are in my own words to the best of my ability, but it is very hard to rewrite a scientific description. So what do you think I should do, should I keep the quotes because I got the descriptions from a book and reworded it , or remove the quotes because it is in my own words?

Thanks for you help,



I wanted to say thanks for the help wikifying the projects at one point you told me that you had connections to available, and I encourage you to add them if it is appropriate. --David.reber 05:57, 23 April 2008 (PDT)

Looking for SEO help

Hello Lonny,

You were referred to me by my high school classmate Al Funk as an incredible resource for SEO strategy and implementation. If you have time to take on a new project, please contact me.

310.399.2601 415.871.5747 (cell)




Postgraduate ponderings

Hello Lonny,

I will be finishing my BS in Environmental Engineering in 12 months and I am wondering what I should be doing after that.

I want to gain knowledge in water and sanitation as is appropriate for applications in developing countries.

Are there any postgraduate programs that you recommend? Are there companies that I should be applying to (either specific firms or categories of firms)? NGO's? Governmental agencies?

Thanks for your advice, --David.reber 12:28, 8 May 2008 (PDT)

Hi David, Responded on your talk page. --Lonny 09:25, 9 May 2008 (PDT)

le système Jean Pain

Hi Lonny, thx for your message, and congratulations for this site. It's just what I was dreaming of. Alas, my skills in computers are quite limited. I'd like someone to "wikify" a few things in SJP : linking words like "méthane" to the related article in wikipedia, add a pic of a mound... I don't know neither how to link the french article to the english one I'll write one of these days (like in wp, the language bar on the left). If you know bilingual french/english persons, they could help me in correcting my english. Is there a space I could upload (dxf) files for people to use in their own designs or as-is ? I'm working on the plans of a yurt-wagon you can trail, that unfolds like a book to form the floor, with felt-and-cloth roof. I'd like to share this idea with people involved in "lightweight living" and get some engineering advice. Have a nice day. Ascanio 07:31, 20 May 2008 (PDT)

Hi Ascanio,
I made some changes to Le système Jean Pain and Jean Pain system. Currently our way of working with various languages is the use of the Template:Tl:Lang bar I added to those pages. I look forward to seeing images and data describing how the system works. As for uploading dxf - try archive.org. If that does not work for you, let's have a wider conversation here about hosting that filetype on Appropedia.
Thank you, --Lonny 05:26, 21 May 2008 (PDT)

Ekopedia and others...

I arrive and actually I do like most of the people create a new subject without being sure that there are none already talking about this... I am part of Ekopedia. It is a participative encyclopedie about alternative technique... It start in French but now it develops in many others languages...

Check Ekopedia

We earlier tryed to have a collaboration with Tiptheplanet... It did not work out... Pity so much dubble information...

Check TipThePlanet

On their Website I now discover Appropedia seems to be the same also...

Check Appropedia

I have to had this student initiative...

Check Demotech

So I feel a little bit sad to see so much person motivated but not working together... If you feel like talking about and trying to create synergie... mail me at olivier(a)kaospilots(dot)nl

Thank you

Hello Olivier,
We are very excited about possible partnerships and agree we should be consolidating efforts instead of duplicating. I have responded via email. Thank you, --Lonny 18:22, 25 May 2008 (PDT)

Summit Green

Lonny, My name is Anne Marie Treger. Our friend Doug Cohen suggested I contact you. I am developing something for everyday consumers of the supermarkets. I am a homespun climate change activist (inspired by my kids) who believes all jobs should be green collar jobs! I am working on creating large scale social change through mom's shopping the supermarket with choices that have a positive impact on the planet. Long story short... Doug thinks we should talk. Please reach out. amtreger@mac.com or 908 577 7352

Thanks and be well,

Anne Marie www.summitgreen.org

Hi Anne,
I just emailed you and am looking forward to our conversation. --Lonny 05:51, 18 June 2008 (PDT)

wanna dance?

Hey Lonny I study sociology in Germany and i´m currently writing my thesis about the potentiality of internet use, especially collaborative networks like this, in international development. I was thinking about analyzing appropedia to find out if it´s appropriate for modern "development aid". What do you think? Unfortunately the mission page is currently (or let´s say since weeks) in progress so I don´t know if you are just collecting technology which could also be used in international development or if appropedia really feels like being a top address for people actually working in d.a. Looking forward zirewi[at]rocketmail[dot]com

Potential Projects at CCAT

Hey Lonny, you are on top of it! We're pretty excited about what we can accomplish this next semester, especially with the grey water marsh. If you are in Humboldt County, we'd like to talk to you about it! Hope you're enjoying summer time Jess

Thanks. See my response here. --Lonny 21:29, 14 July 2008 (PDT)

Headsup on Portal: Sustainability

Hey, Lonny:

I am not sure if this is the best way, and I am aware all changes are visible under "Recent Changes", but I wanted to give you a direct headsup on the above. I added a paragraph on the definition of sustainability, but I also am aware I push the 'tone' envelope, so please give it a read and provide any comments. Thanks!

SustainableDavid 10:25, 10 August 2008 (PDT)

P.S. How do I adjust the Time Zone for the auto closing? I am in CDT and I see PDT. I did adjust the offset from UTC, but the Time Zone remains.

Hi David,
Great work. I think that you did a very good job with the tone at Portal:Sustainability and an excellent job on the edits at Solar hot water. It is great to have you as a part of Appropedia.
As you are getting a hang of the ropes, you may notice that we are focused on practical solutions and try to defer most of our purely encyclopedic content to wikipedia. We also defer most of our proselytizing on why change is needed to other sites and focus here on how to actually change the world. Therefore I am really excited to start learning about your house. Maybe sometime you could start South Texas sustainable home PV system, South Texas sustainable home greywater system, etc. or the such. If you are interested, don't fret about the style or formatting people will come along and help.
Either way, thank you for your great input so far. Your vision has definitely already started helping.
Thank you, --Lonny 15:41, 10 August 2008 (PDT)
Hi David - Thanks again. Prompted by your work, I did some fairly heavy editing on Portal:Sustainability, trimming both my words and yours to keep it succinct and keep the navigation stuff in view, close to the top. I tried to keep the key ideas in, and I put some into a footnote. But feel free to reedit if you feel I lost any important points. If we want much more detail, that could go into a mainspace page instead (i.e. a normal page, not "Portal:XYZ").
(I did write a reply last night but I seem to have lost it). --Chriswaterguy 12:56, 11 August 2008 (PDT)

Another Heads Up, this time on Solar Hot Water

Hey, Lonny:

First, thanks for the comment and advice on the previous edit. I added text on System Types in Solar Hot Water which may be too 'encyclopedic' or just plain wordy, but maybe valid explanatory detail. The last paragraph could easily be placed in the "Appropriate Technology" section above it, but I did not see that until I was finished. Soon I will add some photos that will illustrate the open-loop system (the one I installed 10 years ago on my own water heater and roof).

Now I gotta go out and squash some caterpillars getting on my spaghetti squash! Is that why they call it 'squash'?

SustainableDavid 16:45, 10 August 2008 (PDT)

Hey David,
Great work again. We are still getting the hang of where the line of encyclopedic content is... of course some is needed to support the solutions proposed. "Mentions in movies" is definitely for wikipedia and not appropedia, "history" is often for wikipedia and not appropedia, the content you added seemed very appropriate for appropedia. In addition, you may want to see Solar hot water - system types. I wouldn't be surprised if it had many errors and I look forward to seeing your touch on it. You may want to link it from the Solar hot water page as well (it is already under the category).
Squash in the sense of crush is from French, where as Squash in terms of the gourd is from Algonquian[1], but I bet there is some ancient connection we don't know about yet... although where I live it is much more slug hunting as opposed to caterpillar squashing. ;)
Thank you, --Lonny 03:12, 11 August 2008 (PDT)

detail on the rocket stove

Hi Lonny,

RE: the rocket stove Did you build it? Can you pass on my question if not?

I can not tell from the pictures and dialog exactly how the exhaust gets from the block chamber to the external exhaust pipe. The hole in the top appears to be the same diameter as the skirt. I assume it is the same diameter as the pot (no smoke out the top). I do not see any holes through the skirt. Maybe I am looking at this wrong and the skirt is larger in diameter allowing the heat to rise around the pot and spill into the outer chamber. A few dimensions would help greatly here.

Is there any thought that the exhaust pipe being on one side causes the stove to operate in an "out of balance" fashion?

I look forward to reading more of your site. Building some of the items and participating. I am also very interested in human powered devices, motorized bicycles, human powered pumps, etc.


Hi Jeff,
Check out the history tab (and the footer of the main article) for information on the creators of the article. In addition, one of the creators, Dan, has posted his contact information on the talk page - Talk:CCAT rocket stove. I hope that helps. Please feel free to post your question on that talk page, especially if you can not get a hold of Dan. Please also let us know how your work goes. We are excited to have you hear and look forward to being a part of your participation.
Enjoy, --Lonny 16:57, 8 September 2008 (PDT)
PS you can sign your comments with 4 ~s (i.e. ~~~~)



I just sent you a bunch of huge files to help fund appropedia - please let me know if you got them. Thanks --Joshua 09:50, 13 September 2008 (PDT)

Got them. Exciting stuff. Will get back with it by tomorrow. --Lonny 14:28, 13 September 2008 (PDT)

MediaWiki dumps

Would it be possible for you to automate some form of complete dump from the wiki? This would help greatly in distributing this great resource offline - including CD's, personal readers (everything from PDA's to Nintendo DS), and community installations.

Even an annual release would be greatly appreciated!

See the dumps from wikimedia's projects —The preceding comment was added by Infamouse (talkcontribs) 22:10, 8 October 2008

Hi Infamouse,
Currently we have http://www.appropedia.org/currentdump.xml.gz, but it seems to have problems being downloaded via http. Please let us know if you have any ideas. In addition, you may be interested in Offline content collaboration. Thank you, --Lonny 08:08, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Downloading problems for currentdump.xml.gz

The webserver is not describing the content as the correct type. The following line should be a part of your Apache configuration:

AddType application/x-gzip .gz .tgz

--Infamouse 17:25, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Infamouse,
Thank you so much. I just added that to our htaccess, and it seems to be working great. --Lonny 02:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

editing issue!

Hey Lonny I am a Humboldt student taking Engineering 115 and I was having trouble with displaying what my editing page onto my actual webpage.

Can you please help me The address is http://www.appropedia.org/index.php? title=User_talk:Lonny&action=edit&section=new

This is the address to my editing page and a couple of my sections are not shown. I've tried many things but everytime I try to change it I end losing another section for some odd reason.

Thank you Salvador Gonzalez Gonzalezsal27@yahoo.com 650-703-9249 Please contact me soon

webpage issue

sorry the address is http://www.appropedia.org/Arcata%27s_Oxidation_Pond sorry

Hi Salvador,
The problem was with a reference missing a final quotation mark. You can see the changes here. I also added the automatic references section at the bottom by adding the <reference /> tag. Thanks, and keep up the great work, --Lonny 20:49, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Model welcom

Hi Lonny,

I was trying to welcom some new users. In Ekopedia we use {{subst:welcome}} ~~~~. But here it seems that you have another one... Cause the few welcoming I did were not correct for the name...

Could you update me about the way to do. And also the guidelines... Do you welcome everybody, special welcome for IP. Is there a page which describe that?

Thank you

Olivier C 15:14, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Hi Olivier,
Thanks for your great contributions! To welcome new users we use the following code: {{subst:Welcome|yourusername}}. Thanks, --Lonny 19:57, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Dear Lonny,

Hello my name is Kyle Muther and I am currently working for a sustainable development NGO in Quito, Ecuador. I came across apropedia while looking back at some old experiences and friends at the AIDG organization in Guatemala, which also places a similar importance on knowledge exchange and mutual learning. Apropedia is an impressive and extremely welcomed tool for practitioners in the sustainable development field. Along the lines of the mission of Apropedia, I am currently seeking out interested parties in the creation of a social networking site/ Wiki here in Ecuador which would improve communication, manage knowledge and streamline best practices of like minded small scale, high impact organizations.

Currently, I am in the process of developing this infrastructure and a network of NGOs who would like to take part. Although there are many examples of international NGO 'portals' there are very few examples of national portals which incorporate new media and hands on tools, which would facilitate partnerships and knowledge sharing in real time. I would be very interested in your thoughts as well as a possible partnership for the implementation of such a project. I hope to hear back from you soon and share more of what I hope will be an exciting new venture.


Kyle Muther Coordinator of Project Development Yanapuma Foundation kyle@yanapuma.org

Hi Kyle,
This sounds very exciting. I will email you now. --Lonny 05:36, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Title change

Hey Lonny I was hoping if you could change the title of my page to Arcata's Marsh Oxidation Ponds

http://www.appropedia.org/User:Pingpong89 thank you

You can change the name of your page using the move tag at the top of the window. If you don't see it let me know. In addition, there is already a page named Arcata Marsh Oxidation Ponds.
Thank you, --Lonny 07:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

how do i download this booklet

i will like to know if i can download these booklets to read on my lap top without signing on to the internet. —The preceding comment was added by WUJANNI (talkcontribs) 03:08, 5 December 2008

Hello Wujanni,
Thank you for your question. Here are three possibilities in different states of development.
  1. We are currently on a weekly site dump that would allow you to install a version of the wiki.
  2. We could install an extension like http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Collection, which would allow you to select and create your own booklets for offline reading.
  3. You can use the printable version link on the lefthand sidebar and a program like http://cutepdf.com to create pdf versions of the pages you want to read online.
Please let us know which idea sounds the best to you, or if you have other ideas, and we will work on it.
Thank you for your interest, --Lonny 08:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Generic Edit Page

Hi ! I contact you because I saw that you manage to install Uniwiki extension : Generic Edit Page, without any bug. When i add this Extension without the Layouts extension it ad a tag : <layout name="" /> at the end of each article i edit or creat and when i add the Layouts exetension, the Edit bouton simply don't work ! So my questions are : Did you have the same problem ? How did you manage to solve it ? here is my test wiki www.streetkiss.com/mediawiki

Hope you could answere me etienne.martin@streetkiss.com Best. E.

We definitely had problems installing the Uniwiki extension, but none of our problems were the same as yours. I strongly suggest disabling all other extensions while you trouble shoot this one.
There is now a new wiki to help develop the uniwiki extension at http://uniwiki.wiki.kennisnet.nl/Main_Page. I wish you a lot of luck, --Lonny 10:46, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Thx Lonny !
PS : I have problem to see your wiki with Google Chrome (for exemple, your menu is at the wrong place) i think there is a problem with your <div> —The preceding comment was added by (talkcontribs) 20:01, 21 December 2008

No problem,
Thanks for the note about chrome. We are currently working on that. --Lonny 18:12, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

request for internship

I would like to apply for an internship with Appropedia and Ekopedia. I am interested in translating French into English and English into French. My username is S_abenhariz. —The preceding comment was added by S abenhariz (talkcontribs) 22:53, 10 February 2009

Thank you for your interest. We will be contacting you today. --Lonny 22:10, 10 February 2009 (UTC)


Hi Lonny,

Pleased to meet you. I see a fine translating structure here with templates and all. I share the opinion that these subjects on Appropedia will be very much needed if not crucial in the near future, not to say right now. Very nice website! So I will consider if I can do pieces of translation in Dutch. I have to add a maybe to that, but I will definitely stay around and read along on Appropedia.

I am not one of the translators of the Transition Handbook (these were 40 other people from Netherlands and Belgium, every one doing their part!), I am just the proofreader of this mighty book.

I will get back to you in a short while, stay well,

Lucas Flabbergast 18:34, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

changing title of student article

Hi Lonny,

I transferred everything that my student had mistakenly written under "Titel auf Deutsch" to the actual title, "Behandlung von Abwasser." Thanks for your help with this!


How can I keep up to date about your peer review module?

Dear Lonny

I saw (through twitter search) your tweet "Almost done with a peer review module that allows anonymous reviewing of teammates, with direction/intervention from a supervisor."

Well, I am a supervisor making students (1000+) practice peer review since 1997 (http://kern.ispeople.org/par_en.html). Your module sounds like a great thing.

(I confess I'm a blindman in this wiki-twitter-webworld (and sort of old too); I might have missed something in your pages).

Thank you, Vini, Brazil

Hi Vini,
The peer review module is for peers to review one another's work on a team, as opposed to reviewing a peer's document (although it could be adapted to that). The first in field deployment to 42 students will be complete by Tuesday. At that time, I can give you access to trying it out, or I can give you the code now if you would like. My plan is to open source the code, so that it can be used and adapted by all. The way it is meant to work is to:
  • allow supervisors to set up teams, questions and instructions
  • system emails the team members that the module is ready
  • team members enter a review of each member, themselves and the team
    • pull down menu for each member and the team
    • separate box for each question
  • team member saves their work
  • supervisor reviews each team members comments and has the ability to edit of necessary.
  • supervisor clicks a button that collates and emails out that the results are ready
  • the system collates the responses so that each team mate receives anonymous feedback from their team mates.
I use this system in conjunction with follow up live meetings. Up till now, I was hand collating the responses. That took a lot of time. Please let me know if you are interested in the module.
Thank you, --Lonny 23:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)


Lonny, I am interested in an internship with Appropedia. I would like to work as a Language Intern as I have already been working to translate articles into German. My user page is linked below, and gives a bit of information about myself and interests. User:E.terHorst has already contacted you about an internship for me. I look forward to hearing from you so we can further discuss specifics.

Thank you, User:dj_giallomb

Thanks for your interest. We are excited to talk with you. Please email me at lonnyAtsymbol.pngappropediaDot.pngorg. I tried emailing you, but you don't have an email registered with Appropedia.

Thanks,--Lonny 23:34, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

your tutorial on adding images

http://www.appropedia.org/images/6/6b/AddanImageTutorialR.swf --Mrf25 01:49, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the math formatting tip

Just wanted to say thanks for the math wiki tip, looks much better now!



S.Keating 00:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks for the contributions! --Lonny 17:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)


So it seems that this new fifteen hour work day schedule of mine is finally, and oh so ironically, allotting me the desired time to spend on this miraculous co-creation of yours. I am heading up quite a few branches of community service base work here in Baan Chieng Yeun, Thailand... and though I am mostly working with little ones, I intend to (so long as I don't send back this camera I borrowed from a friend of mine ;) ) document the journey and post it here. Much love hey hey. I miss you like crazy. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nampeung (talkcontribs) 05:40, 25 June 2009

Nampueng, mi hermanita!
So great to hear about your new jobs (and workload ;) ). If you end up needing a camera, just let me know. Let me know how else I can help you contribute.
-Lonny 01:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

removing duplicate article

Hi Lonny, I'm trying to clean up the German article section and I noticed one incomplete article that should probably be deleted: http://www.appropedia.org/Reisene_Dachschindeln The student seems to have changed her mind about the title and then, instead of moving the original article, started a new article: http://www.appropedia.org/Dachschindeln_aus_Reifen, which is now complete. If you could delete the first one, that would be great. Thanks! Nell

Hi Nell,
It is done. Thanks for the notice!
--Lonny 17:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Hi Lonny

Hi Lonny, it's Caroline from San Juan del Sur. I just returned to the US this morning. I'm going to send you my email address via "info@appropedia.org" and I'd love to hear from you and discuss promoting your website on my library page. Hope all is well and to hear from you soon! ~Caroline

Green Communities

Hi there , We’re a group of students from France, doing our first year of master in management, in a french business school and we are doing a case study on green communities. I was looking for someone who could answer a few questions (a kind of online interview), and I was told that you could be interested ?if you're not to busy and are indeed interested, it's just some questions about green communities and you're commitment really. Thank you very much ! S.G

Hi S.G.,
I'd love to talk with your team about green communities. Please feel free to email me at lonny@appropedia.org to set up a time.
Until soon, --Lonny 01:58, 11 November 2009 (UTC)


Hi Lonny

There are some electrical pages I would like to rename. How long do I have to be here to get authorised to do move or rename pages? Joe Raftery 15:23, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to butt in, but you should be able to do that now. Do you see a move tab between "history" and "(un)watch"? As long as it fits with Help:Page naming it'll usually be fine I think, but ask if you're unsure. (There's also Help:Moving a page.) --Chriswaterguy 00:43, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi Joe (and Chris),
Appropedia follows a simple trust algorithm for providing move privileges. It should kick in for you in about 4 days. I am sorry for the delay... I am not sure how to fast track your account. We have three options: 1) You can list the pages you want moved moved (name of page -> new name of page), and I (or someone already authorized) can move them for you quickly) 2) You can wait four or five more days until you are authorized 3) I can put in more time figuring out how to manually authorize you (which would probably mean editing the database... gee we really need some technical volunteers :) ). Please let me know if you would like me to do #3. Thank you for your engagement! -Lonny 01:17, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
No problem. I'll wait another couple of days or if I get impatient I'll ask someone. Now I think I'll go and edit Help:Moving a page to add this info. Joe Raftery 09:58, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
What exactly is the algorithm? Is it just 4 days wait or is there a min number of edits too? I want to get the right info on the Help page. Joe Raftery
Doh! I see the info is right there already!Joe Raftery 10:03, 13 December 2009 (UTC)
I only added it yesterday - thanks to your question prompting us. Sorry for the restrictions! --Chriswaterguy 17:09, 13 December 2009 (UTC)


... Whatever is best, and most appropriate, I will be OK with. : ). I added a bit... I also put a copy in the user name-space. Thanks. Emesee

And thank you for helping to found this wiki, btw. I think it is so great, and so appropriate.. but you know that. ; ) Emesee
Thank you. I really appreciate your input and support. Keep up the great work! --Lonny 05:21, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Greenwheels/Appropriate CAD team

Hey Lonny, I took notice that you are a board member for Greenwheels. I was thinking it may be useful to have a Template:AT CAD team assembled here at Appropedia, so that we can start making some simple CAD-designs of green transportation vehicles (which can then be promoted at Greenwheels) ? These include:

Along with the last idea, perhaps that we could set up the seperate blog as proposed in the section. The AT freight tram design then stays at appropedia, but any combination tram/trainrail proposals for implementation into particular countries can then be placed at the blog.

Regarding the tram idea however, I still need to gather some info first regarding the size of the conventional tram and train rails, see [2] before we can get started on this. When completed, we can mail [3]

Note: regarding the Template:AT CAD team tag: this would be part of a series of tags, and member organisation, as proposed at User_talk:Chriswaterguy#Members (members + welcome message section)

Thanks, KVDP 12:31, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea of an Appropedia CAD team. Is there an existing resource like that already? I also like the idea of having a category for untested concepts, where people can get ideas. Thanks, --Lonny 06:10, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
No, to my knowledge there are not yet any organisations, ... that design their technologies in 3D nor do they do so in order to visualise a new concept in order to work it out better/improve it. I'm guessing that this method wasn't well executable in the past (before Google SketchUp, 3D programs were hard to use and expensive). Note tat i'm changing the name to AT CAD Team, this may provide a bit more expansion in the future, and it's a more accurate description.

User:KVDP 12:10, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Google Map copyright

Hey Lonny,

Are Google Map inclusions compatible with Appropedia's free license? The imagery and map data are copyrighted by Google and its partners. -Roger 13:17, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

(And does it matter if it's a userpage versus a regular article? I'm asking because some of the Arcata Ed Farm pages use one) -Roger 13:19, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
I was wondering about embedded videos, which I think have the same issue I'd like to modify the license page to clarify that it covers content hosted by Appropedia, and not embedded content such as maps, videos or RSS feeds.
Thinking in some detail about RSS feeds, we could have a guideline where the blog should not show more than x characters per feed item, equivalent to about 2 sentences - I think that's safe if someone blindly copies it as if it's Appropedia content, but much more and it's not respecting copyright. Maybe it's different if the blog is open licensed, but there's still the risk of misattribution.)
Roger, it wouldn't matter if it's a user page, as the same license applies. --Chriswaterguy 06:14, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Hmm. Yeah, good question. How do copyrights apply to embedded objects on the rest of the web? I would assume that since sites like Youtube and Google Maps deliberately allow embedding on third-party sites, they've thought of (and answered) this question already... but, ugh, I just don't feel like trudging through legalese right now. I'll check some other time.
On the other hand:
  • From a philosophical perspective, do we really want an Appropedia with mixed licenses, making it the end-user's responsibility to individually examine every section of every article before using and redistributing content? How does Wikipedia handle this?
  • From a technical perspective, would embedded content make it more difficult to archive and/or redistribute Appropedia -- say, on physical media to internet-limited areas?
-Roger 07:47, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
In a perfect world we would have everything under open licenses, agreed... if it's optional extra, something to make a page a bit more useful or interesting, and it's ok from a license perspective, then I don't have a problem with it. If it content that plays a critical role in making a page useful, then I'd want to see our open content on that topic expanded, so we're not depending heavily on embedded content. How does that sound?
Thanks for making me think about this.
If we archive or redistribute the content of the site, then depending how it's done, most or all of the embedded content won't be there. For example in an xml site dump, it's the wiki markup which is recorded, so there won't be a license issue with that content, but any embedded content will not work if it's being viewed offline. --Chriswaterguy 14:30, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Sounds sensible :) -Roger 16:49, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Nice conversation. I am sure others are having it as well... I look forward to hearing from them. For some of our content we should probably try to figure out how to integrate with an open map project like http://www.openstreetmap.org/ (which, incidentally, I think has better street maps of Haiti than Google)[4]. PS The site dump is at Appropedia:Offline_browsing. Thanks! --Lonny 18:33, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

License wording

I got the interesting response: the code that loads them is open, they are not: "except where otherwise noted, all code is free under a creative..."

That would require a separate line to deal with files (e.g. images) which are not "code".

What if we say "hosted by"? Not sure if it's the exact word we need, since it's Dreamhost that hosts the content, in one sense. But to show what i'm getting at, the intro to Appropedia:Copyrights would be changed to:

Unless otherwise specified, all material hosted by Appropedia is under Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 (CC-BY-SA-3.0). In other words, you can redistribute and modify if you respect the terms of the license.
Note that embedded content (including but not limited to embedded videos and blog feeds) are not hosted by Appropedia and are not covered by Appropedia's license.

What say you? --Chriswaterguy 05:22, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion for a wiki extension installation

I have a wiki that I set up at at www.plant.photos.net and had some spam type vandalism, which I noticed was a bit of a problem here (my user page was vandalized, but someone fixed it). Though reverted back to normal, the bad user name is still cited. Also you have some obviously bad user names at the start of the User List, starting with numbers.

What I did to fix these issues on my wiki was to install the extension called User Merge and Delete (Version 1.6.1) - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:User_Merge_and_Delete . I have it on 3 different wiki's and have deleted that type of user name from my sites.

--Steve Gallagher 03:01, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Steve,
Thank you, thank you, thank you! We had been trying to use http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Renameuser, but were having problems. We have now installed the Merge and Delete extension and it seems to be working great. We use a few spam abatement tools that help. Feel free to ask about them, if you are looking for ideas. Thanks again! --Lonny 07:22, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Two versions of translated article

Hi Lonny,

I have some students starting their translations for a course, and one of them made two versions of an article. I moved the more recent version (Fahrrad-Auflieger) to "Fahrrad-Anhänger." I am wondering if you could delete the older version, "Fahrrad Auflieger."

Thanks! Nell

Hi Nell,
Fahrrad-Auflieger is now deleted, and Fahrrad-Anhänger is untouched. I am really excited to see what your students do this semester. Thanks, --Lonny 06:03, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Lonny. I think there's still one older version that needs to be deleted: Fahrrad_Auflieger. Sorry this got confusing with three different versions of the same article! Thanks again for your help! Nell

Got it. It is done. Thanks! --Lonny 01:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

File extensions

Hi Lonny, It seems that there are a few file extensions that should be supported, this to allow some files to be uploaded for use with the SketchUp Beginner Manual (see appendix 1). KVDP 10:33, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Is it just .skp that we need to support? If so, I will add it this week. If not, let me know.
Thank you, --Lonny 22:27, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
No, its .skp and .dwg, there is also a .rb (update package for sketchup) but this latter can probably not be supported anyhow. Perhaps I can give a file link for this. BTW: is there any consensus on the file hosting service ? I would like to have a system in place for sharing files between the Appropedia members (ie for documents that are still in construction, ...) See the village pump.

KVDP 12:02, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Re-appropriated Photo Gallery

LQ ~ I am wondering if an "Oh how appropro..." Photo Gallery, where folks could upload playful re-appropriated images from all over the world, could or would be a welcome addition to the site. I am turning my skin see-through with such a question... yes, it is true, I am a newbie to this magnificent world of Wiki-editing/adding... and so I must ask. Would such a vague album name find itself un-categorizable and thus un-found? While you ponder that over... here is some re-appropriated tire lovin' for them eyes to feast upon. ;) --—The preceding comment was added by Nampeung (talkcontribs) 09:23, 9 March 2010

Garbage 2.jpg
That is a great idea. I added Upcycling. You can see instructions there on how to add images to that gallery. In addition, we could add a manual image gallery to that page, that would allow for captions. Let me know if you want help with that, or have any other questions. Thanks, --Lonny 18:16, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

YouTube Full Screen

Hey Lonny,

I noticed in class that the YouTube Widget here does not allow full screening.

Would you mind adding that to its code?

The parameter is:


Thanks! -Roger 03:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Roger,
Thank you for the suggestion. As per the widget talk page, I don't think that this widget supports full screen. If you find out something different, please let me know.
Thanks, --Lonny 10:06, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
This is not a perfect answer but... for a specific video you want to watch, if you double-click on the video, it will open the video in Youtube, in a new window. Then you can select full screen. This works on any site where Youtube is embedded. --Chriswaterguy 11:05, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Greek version of Appropedia

FYI: User_talk:Aaron#Greek version of Appropedia. --Chriswaterguy 11:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Oops, ignore that. That was Aaron who edited anonymously, not the Greek Appropedia person - I'll move my comments to User talk:Ioakar. --Chriswaterguy 08:34, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

internship and more orgs

Hi Lonny

I think the internship idea is really great. I have been doing some work in Europe with a program called Youth in Action. Simply it allows people to be funded for up to 1 year if aged 15-30. There are a fair few countries involved (like 150). BUT There is a bureaucracy to go thru, but I think its worth looking at for the intern program:


Also I often have people ask me if they can volunteer.

They have 2 big issues:

1. VSO type orgs want high technical skills and training, which is a big barrier for people being involved.


"We have a range of roles from six months to two years for qualified professionals with at least two-three years’ post-qualification experience."

2. There are a lot of NGO businesses, that instead of helping people, charge really lots of money for insurance and to "help" on the program.


Not all are like this, but if we can get more programs like: SCI - Service Civil International


and WOOF - World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms


that allow people to volunteer without having to be rich and very experienced (and if they get costs, food and accommodation and insurance) so much the better.

I have been collecting a list of orgs in my delicious bookmarks - some need sorting, but these may be suitable for such co-operations:


As a point of note WiserEarth was started as a contacts database of suitable orgs.

So the question is - Can we develop things in this way of ethical volunteering?? And put ethical orgs into appropedia.

I write this way rather than an article to avoid arguments about if an NGO is an NGO business or charging too much or if its a good deal, way of operating etc.


Hi Markus,
Thanks for the interest and the great list of orgs. Currently we have the page International volunteer opportunities... I am not sure if that is the type of page you are talking about, but it might be a good place to add to.
I am not sure if I understand your question exactly... but Appropedia would love to work with some of the organizations you mention in the way of developing more ethical volunteering options. The idea behind the Appropedia internship is to provide a way for volunteers to bring value to an organization/project and share knowledge with the world while not taking away local jobs or requiring heavy labor/highly specialized skills from the volunteers. This is not meant to replace other types of ethical volunteering, but to augment the field.
Let me know what you think and if I answered your question.
Thank you (from San Cristobal de las Casas, Chiapas), --Lonny 21:55, 10 July 2010 (UTC) 10:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)markus80.229.30.103 10:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

yep it answers it. BUT for EVS Appropedia would have to actually register. Then they can get the EU money. But you need to be careful as a bad volunteer experience is of course possible and can be costly. If all goes well it does not cost you really. I agree with the not taking away, but for example in some countries you can claim unemployment benefit by email, so you are able to travel and work voluntarily on projects. So you have money to support yourself, but not expensive fees. helping those people do something useful with their time is good.

Request for internship review

Hello Lonny,

I'm interested in the various internship opportunities at Appropedia, especially the travel internship program.

Please leave a note indicating if you'd like to receive an email containing further details and more tangible plans.

Thanks, Nils
--Reichnil 21:40, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Nils,
Yes, please email me with more details at lonnyAtsymbol.pngappropediaDot.pngorg or using Special:EmailUser/Lonny.
Thanks, --Lonny 22:12, 10 July 2010 (UTC)