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Archive

Older discussions can be found at Appropedia talk:Village pump/Archive. If you wish to continue those discussions, please start a new section on this page - do not add new comments to the archive page.

Topics that have been spun off to other pages

To keep this page manageable, some bulky topics have been moved to their own pages

• Appropedia:Mission
• Appropedia:Anti-Vandalism Measures
• Appropedia:Logos
  • Includes discussion of subtitles
• Appropedia talk:Technical questions
• Appropedia talk:Policy discussion
• Appropedia:Copyrights
• Main Page prototyping page
• Promotion of Appropedia
• Appropedia:Articles to translate
• Past discussions have been moved to Appropedia talk:Village pump/Archive for easy viewing

Section 5

Advertising?

Is there a policy on spamming and ads? I wasn't sure about In-N-Out Burger, doesn't seem to be that related to the project's mission (except possibly the vegetarian thing?). I guess a more general question would be whether there's a policy for determining whether a page makes it into the project's scope? Is there a deletion policy? How about a policy about where to draw the line when a page starts sounding like advertising (e.g. a neutrality policy)? delldot talk 11:50, 23 August 2008 (PDT)

We've talked about being more friendly to commercial enterprises - as long as the content contributes to the wiki in some way, with some practical solution or idea. I think that this article doesn't do so in its current state. Maybe mark it, and invite improvement of the article? --Chriswaterguy 19:55, 23 August 2008 (PDT)

Good point about supporting business if it adds something. I can't see this article ever being useful, but I could be wrong--I don't know anything about this business. What do you think about the idea that if you're not hardline against spam it could get out of hand? I'm pretty against advertising. For example, I don't like the advertising for American Express on the main page. Seems to me if you're going to bring business to an enterprise you've got an ethical responsibility to make sure it's not evil. Anyway, I think advertising presents a conflict of interest that could cost you in accuracy. delldot talk 20:42, 23 August 2008 (PDT)

This article might need to evolve into one about running green & healthy hamburger restaurants, to be useful. In other words, a complete change. The Sun Frost energy efficient shower is more like how I imagine a useful page from a business.

We don't have a problem with spam at present (that I'm aware of) apart from the cases you mentioned. The AmEx mention on the frontpage - I wondered about that, but I'm not personally aware of AmEx being a notably bad company, and I thought that if they're giving $2.5 million away to a good cause, so they can get publicity, that's not so bad - better than getting publicity through conventional advertising spending. But that's just a thought - I'm not sure what I actually think.

Certainly an article on green & healthy hamburger restaurants would be great, but it seems like if you need to do a complete rewrite and a rename, there's no point in not deleting, at least in pure terms of content.

I don't know any dirt on AmEx either, but I bet I could dig some up. :P At any rate, I'm just stating my bias; that stuff makes me shudder. But I do think it's worth considering where the line should be drawn. e.g. if Shell Oil does some philanthropic work, would we lend them these pages for advertisement? I would think of that as harmful. So how evil can a company get away with being? delldot talk 21:07, 23 August 2008 (PDT)

Site notice

I just discovered how MediaWiki:Sitenotice works. I tried it out, and it can leave a message at the top of every page, e.g.:

Do we want to have something like this? (I do.)

Do we want to have it like Wikimedia sites (note I don't yet know how they do this):

• with a "dismiss" option?
• in a box? (this is more visually intrusive, so i'd say only if we have the dismiss option.)

Please suggest better wording of the notice.

Also, after a week, I'd like to replace it with a notice about the upcoming OpenSustainabilityCamp. --Chriswaterguy 20:04, 23 August 2008 (PDT)

Great stuff! I support posting an OSNCamp notification immediately. I like something short such as "Join us at OSNCamp at SFSU on Oct 18-19. Click "here" for info and registration"... with appropriate embedded links, of course. CurtB 17:26, 15 September 2008 (PDT)

Practicing here: Join us at OSNCamp in San Francisco on Oct 18-19! Registration is here

More info is here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interface/Sitenotice

We should increment the Sitenotice id whenever we update the Sitenotice. I couldn't see info about how links are handled, and what wiki coding is supported, etc. Experiment, I guess...

NOINDEX tag

Useful info for anyone making test pages (like Main Page tests) or any other pages which shouldn't be indexed by search engines - just add __NOINDEX__:

New magic words __INDEX__ and __NOINDEX__ control whether a page can be indexed by search engines (although note that Wikimedia's robots.txt, which excludes things like AfD subpages, takes precedence over this). The keywords do nothing in "content namespaces" ― which means the main namespace on the English Wikipedia, but other sites may have additional content namespaces.[1]

--Chriswaterguy

Musing on subcategories for Programs

I was just talking with Lonny's friend Matthew Marshall, who works in Denver city government. He was asking about programs, such as their program to encourage drivers not to leave their cars idling. I said yes, Appropedia is for content such as that.

However, I'm not sure how to categorize pages such as these, or Environmental Management System, as our Category:Programs is so far about a different kind of program, e.g. the Parras summer programs.

I'm thinking that we need new sub-categories, but I'm just having trouble thinking of the right category names... should Environmental Management System go in Category:Sustainability programs? (too vague?) or Category:Efficiency programs? (Too specific?) --Chriswaterguy 11:31, 30 August 2008 (PDT)

To help explain this to people, I will work on a government portal... or rather, 2 portals:

• Portal:Governments and sustainability
• Portal:Government supported development programs

--Chriswaterguy 21:50, 15 September 2008 (PDT)

Preventing attack with name string

We need to limit length of user names -- always protect highlighted project - and add negative word search to ban user names that would be defamatory. Finally a super user must get rid of string as user name from latest attack. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fixer, 6:43 25 Sep 2008

Agreed - good suggestions.

Protecting projects - I'd hoped we could avoid this, but until we have super-shar anti-vandal tools (and a patrol team covering all time-zones) then we need to protect. Or maybe apply "flagged revisions" to such pages.

Other suggestions: Will see if we can get any MediaWiki gurus to help set this up - let us know if you have any suggestions!

Thanks again for your fixing work! --Chriswaterguy 11:59, 25 September 2008 (PDT)

Lonny has implemented MediaWiki:Usernameblacklist, and also protected that highlighted project, as you suggested. Thanks again. --Chriswaterguy 00:57, 26 September 2008 (PDT)

Collapsing categories

It is nice and neat to have all the categories collapse into the expandable list with the + This system could be improved, however, it categories without any subcategories were signified in some way maybe a - and/or there was a way to expand all the subcategories at once to see the tree under a specific topic. --Joshua 13:17, 2 October 2008 (PDT)

Integrated Systems of Production

I am interested in combining appropriate technologies into "integrated systems of production" designed to reduce cash costs - as an alternative to economies of scale. The classic example is George Chan's Integrated Farm Management System. I have other examples listed in my AboutUs wiki pages.

What if the volunteers at Appropedia agreed to focus on a project such combining a solar energy facility with a Greening the Desert project as a model to reduce global warming by both replacing fossil fuels and sequestering carbon in plants grown where they do not currently grow. I am thinking of things like:

• Pump in sea water to grow algea for diesel,
• use the water in evaporative coolers for greenhouses built under the solar panels
• incorporate dehumidifiers into the design to produce fresh water,
• provide food, water, shelter . . . for people to build and maintain the systems
• and as many other things as we can add in - using each resource for as many integrated purposes as possible.

Once the project is defined, we volunteers would then conduct outreach to experts in each aspect of the plan - to both make the plan better and bring more interest to Appropedia.

I am thinking about maintaining a portal on integrated production systems but I thought I would see if there is any interest first. David Braden October 15, 2008

This sounds intriguing. I'm interested, more on the side of how to make this work on a wiki, helping coordinate... but Monday or later will be a better time for some of us to think about this, after OSNCamp 2008. --Chriswaterguy 08:02, 16 October 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can we add a category to cover this topic, like: Non-profit social economy or social-ecological sustainable embedded economy, natural balanced economy, .. ? Jafra April 8, 2009

Integrated Systems

Thank you for your interest Chris. I look forward to your comments. I tried to edit the last comment but could not find how to save it. What is the trick to that? David Braden October 16, 2008 9:46 MDT.

Sorry - we've added new edit features, and still having some bugs.

At the top right, click "Generic edit". "Classic edit" would then take you back to the older style wiki editing page... but for some reason it breaks on this long page. Lonny has been working on it, and we're getting help. Thanks for hanging in with us! --Chriswaterguy 15:59, 16 October 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Template links to Wikipedia

I have moved {{wp sup}} - the superscript link to Wikipedia, like this^W - to {{w}}, for simplicity. (It displays as W, so it makes sense for the code to be W).

I also want to replace the use of the {{wp}} template with a wikilink (to an Appropedia article) and a {{w}} link to Wikipedia. So for example:

^W

would become:

water wheel^W

No doubt there will be some that don't quite turn out right, and will need to be fixed manually - I should be able to manage it.

Just want to flag it - if no objections in the next couple of weeks, I'll get to work with the bot! --Chriswaterguy 03:23, 2 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Rice Hulls

I live in Shreveport,LA and would like to find a source for rice hulls close enought to have them transported to this area. Any help would be great. Can be reached at yahoo as ladyglennaelf.

   glenna

Interaction and linking between Demotech, design for self-reliance and Appropedia

Hello Chris, Lonny and to whom it may concern!

Hope all is well and all of you are enjoying the idea of "Yes we can", though it is sad that Sarah's expensive outfit will not make it to the ward robes of the White House.

In the mean time I have made a short description in the Category Demotech of all of Demotech's designs and writings. All of them link to the more extensive and better illustrated pages on the Demotech website. Maybe that is not what Appropedia likes best, but is is the only workable solution for me, as I regularly update these pages. It does not invite visitors from Appropedia to change anything or add anything. That is counter the idea of Open Source, however it did not happen anyway ever! In principle it is still possible. A visitor could make a new page to comment on what she or he finds at the related page at Demotech. Also each Demotech page is linked to a wiki page that invites comments. Even more: each page at Demotech offers a form inviting to add comments, but it is seldom used.

Illustrative is it to look at the Appropedia page 'Night Reader' (see: http://www.appropedia.org/Night_Reader ), I have no idea when this page was copied from the Demotech web page http://www.demotech.org/d-design/designA.php?d=44 This Demotech page contains so much more relevant info and does NOT contain some harmful misunderstanding of the original design now to be found in the Appropedia page. I know that I can correct such a mistake, I even could add that educational tools to make the NightReader are available at Demotech, but it is a lot of extra work and in my real life it just does not get done.

So I prefer a well illustrated and inviting introduction of each of the Demotech designs, writings and concepts, with a clear link to Demotech. But also with a notepad attached to that Appropedia page on which comments can be left without first linking to Demotech. If ever on a beautiful day someone really would do some work on such a design, but would not like to involve Demotech in it, then this notepad page could expand into an alternative for the original Demotech initiative.

I have a few related questions: At http://www.appropedia.org/DemoSticks_displays there is to be found DemoSticks displays. This page could be removed, as a link to a link to the complete and lateste updated page is available at by the page http://www.appropedia.org/Category:Demotech_Means_to_get_informed Same for the Appropedia page http://www.appropedia.org/Demo_Camp_Units and the Appropedia page http://www.appropedia.org/Demo_Camp_Einheiten, all of them can be replaced by the page http://www.appropedia.org/Category:Demotech_Means_to_get_informed

But I would like to add a small picture of each item next to the text, very much the same as I did it at http://www.demotech.org/d-design/d-categories.php?cat=1

Would it be possible to batch upload the about 50 small 180 x180 px pictures each of them an illustration of the listed Demotech design initiative?

Another question is how to create links in other Appropedia lists, say 'Water' or 'Sanitation' or other topics that Demotech designs relate to. Where to find such lists?

To conclude with a real burning question: I look for a research center or anything that functions like that for doing design research on toilet systems. Right now I work on three sanitation systems, the Hy2U (see: http://www.demotech.org/d-design/designA.php?d=91 ), the BathroomBox or SolarSanitation (see: http://www.demotech.org/d-design/designA.php?d=53 ) and the BathroomToilet-unit (see: http://www.demotech.org/d-design/designA.php?d=36 ). Support for this work in my own workshop in the Netherlands has vaporized, so I want to move out and find a place where an institute, school of interested people would welcome work on these designs, preferably close to users for which these designs are meant. It would take one or two months. There is always the possibility to come back when the work catches on and needs further support. These designs already have a long history behind them, had some success and I think it is a big shame that I have not been able to give pace to the research still needed. OK, where is that institute, school or are those interested people? Please let me know at info@demotech.org

Kind regards, Reinder / Demotech http://www.demotech.org .

I'm happy to see more linking - even if it's not on Appropedia, it should be at least indexed and linked here.

For the Appropedia community's information, can I ask what the "harmful misunderstanding of the original design" is? (Just a quote is fine.)

Batch upload of images: I previously couldn't find anything about how to add this feature - maybe I wasn't using the right phrase, but using your phrasing I found mw:Extension:MultiUpload, Batch Upload Images to MediaWiki and more references. We are looking for tech help for a number of things, like setting up a test wiki for the extra features we want, and this is another good thing to try out... if you know anyone who can help with adding features to MediaWiki, let us know!

Batch upload of images - Take 2: If anyone understands how to use a perl script, it may be that this perl script to do batch uploads of images doesn't require changing anything on the wiki...?

Re toilet research - I have asked the Appropedia twitter network. You could also ask on Global Swadeshi. --Chriswaterguy 19:02, 12 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Chris, thanks for feed back, re. happy to see more linking ... Please instruct me how to link and or index the items in the Appropedia Demotech category to the Appropedia categories of 'Water', 'Sanitation and others. Where to find such lists? Maybe there are related list or categories in the content of the new big partners.

Re: Harmful misunderstanding: The NightReader should NOT use WHITE LEDs. Yellow LEDs are OK for reading, they work with consideralbel less voltage, are cheaper, probably use less milli amps as well. The NightReader is really targeting at the minimal amount of light, NO MORE than needed for reading those 6 lines of a page in a book. In practice that is just enough. The related big working condition is NOT ATTRACTING INSECTS that otherwise would crawl over the lighted section of the paper and hinder concentration on work. Not attracting insects too asks for minimizing light to what is needed, as well as a proper cap that shields the light of in all directions apart from where your eyes have to see the paper. The NightReader is in a delicate balance of many functions and working methods to realize these functions. But further optimalization is always possible. Recently Demotech made a new model that works in the same way, but that is far easier to make and has some other advantages. Expect soon info on this on the Demotech NightReader page. But then what to do with the present NightReader publication at Appropedia? Whose responsability is it to update such info, initially posted not by Demotech? This is the same question as I put to the Village Pump as in regard of the outdated Appropedia DemoUnits entries.

Thanks for the link to Twitter. I have to find out how this works.

You people are good! Ferreal yall!

Ifn ya have a newsletter er sumpn'.....hook a brotha up. Please. :)

ian ..sacredpond@hotmail.com

peace

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the message. We don't currently have a newsletter, but we are working on one. We'll let you know when one comes out. Thanks! --Lonny 23:54, 12 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ThinHouse

Oregon family working toward a sustainable 2000 watt lifestyle. See www.thinhouse.net.

Webpage editing screen

For some reason my actual webpage shows something completely different than my editing page and I can't figure out why.

It is under

http://www.appropedia.org/index.php?title=Arcata%27s_Oxidation_Pond&action=edit

Is the lack of "WYSYIWYG" confusing you? Unfortunately, we still have to edit the "wiki markup" but hope to have it working like a regular editor one day. See Help:Contents too - that may help.

In the meantime, you can use preview to see how things display. Do you have someone (a classmate) you can sit down with and figure this out? --Chriswaterguy 14:58, 17 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Good suggestions - Sharon

Health hazard if used for drinking water

Researchers found that plastic water bottles release cancer-causing agents after they are boiled, even after they are rinsed out. [2] Be careful not to eat or drink off of heat-treated bottles. This is especially true for pregnant women and young children.

How to request a category rename

We're just getting started adding some location pages for Illinois. We created Category:Cook County. It should be Category:Cook county, Illinois. An admin person has to make this change. Right? How to we request a rename of a category? User:Bmorrisett

No admin is needed for this. You just have to go into each page and edit it to change the category name. Once there are no pages referring to the old Category you can propose the Category for deletion or just redirect to the new Cat.filceolaire 22:09, 28 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Okay, thanks. How do I propose the Category for deletion? User:Bmorrisett

To propose a category for deletion use the {{Delete}} template by pasting that code into the top of a page. Thank you, --Lonny 04:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

SSB Maker

I would like to get in touch with any of the team members of the SSB Makers.

My email is glotieno@gmail.com Regards, George

Hi George,

You can try to leave a message on the talk page of the Interlocking_Stabilized_Soil_Block_(ISSB)_Maker project page. Or you can try to email the page editors directly with at:

• Special:EmailUser/Mokrauer
• Special:EmailUser/Shamo

Good luck, --Lonny 04:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

SD wiki sites list

Chris, I added to http://www.appropedia.org/SWS_included_sites_list, as there seemed to be more than just your search output there. I made a page: to try to keep with your format of the name and only the name in the list: http://www.appropedia.org/Connection. I hope you think it's in the right place. I actually think it might be better to use a short sentence (up to 200 char?) with every link, so people don't have to go through a whole learning process to see what's there.

best, phil

Please DELETE roadside.jpg

Copyright issues

Thanks Acg34,

The photos are now deleted. --Lonny 21:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

wiki-net

Mattis Manzel:
Hi everybody. Pretty nice wiki work you are doing, as far as I can tell after some reading. I'm working on the wiki-net. If you ever feel like experimenting with it in any context, feel free to. As an example see the kabo-wiki-hive. Have a nice day all.

:(

I'm spamming your site on Wikiversity, apparently.

Comment on the bookmark gadget

I personally find the bookmark gadget to be poorly placed right under the logo. About 80% of the time (or at least it seems that way) when I try to click on one of the menu links, I inadvertently swing over the bookmark widget and it pops open and obscures the link I want. And this from a widget that I have never used and do not expect to ever use. That is to say, it's all pain and no gain from my perspective. I'd like to hear from others if they think that a) it's a cool tool, and b) it should be placed there (versus, say, along the top edge of the page where my cursor rarely goes).

Thanks for the feedback, all. CurtB 01:12, 14 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for the feedback. We have placed the search box above the navigation sidebar boxes. The bookmark tool is in the same location as before, but now I think it won't get in the way of navigation. Please let us know how that works out. PS placing the bookmark tool there, instead of the lower left, has quadrupled its use... but that is not worth being annoying. --Lonny 16:59, 27 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Layout problem

Layout falls apart on Google Chrome (1.0.154.43): the sidebar on the left is pushed below the bottom edge of the main content block. (I'm using XP, and an 1280x800 resolution.) --86.101.62.230 21:11, 16 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you. We are currently working on that and should have it fixed in less than two weeks. --Lonny 00:24, 27 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The {{delete}} tag

I'd like to suggest that:

• the {{delete}} tag be added at the top of an article, and not used to replace the text
• users are encouraged to add a reason for deletion, in the form {{delete|reason}}.
• this template be used sparingly. It is easier to improve an existing article than create a new one.

In the spirit of "being bold," I've edited the instructions on the template page: Template:Delete#Usage. How does all that sound? --Chriswaterguy 22:17, 31 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

downloadable

Hi, I am a new user who hasn't contributed at all. I haven't looked at much here but I am familiar with the name (I assume this is a good info spot) and, upon request of a friend seeking "appropriate technology" info in a setting absent of internet connections, if I thought that most or all of this site be a good reference for him as it is, could I download the whole thing for a cd/dvd (or do you have a downloadable version)? If not, can someone with the ability upload it to a file-hosting service for this purpose? (I tried the "download the dump" idea it did not work. It was a 30MB xml document which just crashed the browser Internet Explorer 8 Release Candidate 1, or displayed the whole thing in programming text) RTG 16:51, 1 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We've talked about how to make this work - e.g. see the options Lonny mentions at User_talk:Lonny#how do i download this booklet.

Also see Appropedia:Offline browsing - this is a collection of advice and links from friends at OLPC, but I don't think any of us have tried it on Appropedia yet. If you try it, let us know how it goes! --Chriswaterguy 02:08, 5 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Deletion policy

I'd like to propose we develop a clear deletion polity, so I'm starting one at Appropedia:Deletion policy.

As we've had a practice of teachers deleting students' work that doesn't meet standards, this will have to be clearly addressed. We want to make things as clear as possible for students and teachers, while also working smoothly with the rest of the community.

Please check out the draft, and help improve it, or comment on it. Thanks. --Chriswaterguy 03:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

David Reber nominated as admin

I've nominated User:David.reber for adminship. See Appropedia:Administrators/Nominations#David Reber . --Chriswaterguy 06:33, 13 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Adminship - making two levels, and changing the name

I've suggested changing the name "admin" to "librarian", as in the Spanish Wikipedia. Another option is "steward". Please leave any comments or suggestions at Appropedia talk:Administrators/Process.

I've also suggested making two levels of adminship - see Appropedia:Administrators/Process and leave comments on the talk page. Thanks! --Chriswaterguy 19:49, 13 February 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Search Appropedia with one click: handy bookmarklets

Set up bookmarklet in your browser - then you can highlight text on a web page, click a button on your bookmarks toolbar, and perform a search for that term on Appropedia. Also works for other sites.

See Search bookmarklets for details. --Chriswaterguy 21:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Usability / Making it accessible for beginners

Hi,

this is probably a difficult problem, and I haven't fully fleshed it out in my own mind, but:

It's pretty difficult to quickly navigate to content that is likely to be useful to a lot of people. For example, I tried issuing the following queries:

• "light bulbs" (i.e. trying to learn about energy-efficient lightbubls)
• "energy efficient house" (how to make house heat/energy efficient)
• "carpool"

None of these queries give me anything remotely relevant (or even easy to comprehend) in the top results.

Similarly, it's not at all intuitive how to navigate to the content above from the front page.

I think this is a serious problem, as it will result in many (esp. first-time) users getting frustrated and turning away. I know that people read/write Appropedia for many purposes, but I believe that the majority first-time visitors probably want something that's simple and general.

The solution to this is not easy, but off the top of my head I can think of a few things:

• A "simple" portal with simplified/limited content (something like Simple Wikipedia [3])
• Improving tagging / search technology (e.g. does the current search engine have a "PageRank"-like feature that prioritizes pages by their popularity)?
• An introduction/guide on the front page (that lets you quickly learn about / navigate to general issues of interest).

I'd be very interested in thinking about these problems further. (I'm a computer science grad student with a background in HCI).

Thanks so much for your message, Kkireyev! I agree that we need major improvements in navigation. I had to look up HCI (Human-computer interaction^W - that's very relevant to the work we need to do improving the site, so we'd love to work with you on this.

We do have some plans in these areas, but it's been slow work because there's so much to do, and not many of us with tech skills (my own tech skills are very limited). Any help you could lend, both on conceptual and practical levels, would be greatly appreciated.

The first thing I'd suggest is to join the Tech for sustainability wikis - that's where we talk about tech ideas. Perhaps you could introduce yourself there, copy this message there, and tell us a bit more about yourself?

Re the portal and the front page ideas - we're thinking about adding a navigation tool like the one at Appropedia:CategoryTree to the front page, but I'm still working on the images. See also Main Page tests - that's very much under construction, but it shows some of the attempts made to tidy and slim down the front page, and make more room for important stuff that helps people navigate. Feel free to play around with that page if you like.

Re the search engine - updated comment: Wikipedia has a nicer search engine, which was announced here. It's apparently not part of a new version of MediaWiki - we could do with some tech help in working out how to apply it to Appropedia. I don't know whether this is the kind of thing you're interested in, but if you know anyone (or anyone is reading this) who can help, please let us know! --Chriswaterguy 16:37, 7 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Open Green Map

We should consider partnering with Open Green Map to integrate the GIS functionality we have been looking for into appropedia. Any thoughts? --Joshua 18:35, 30 March 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I love it, I love it, I love it :)

am glad to be here within ... thanks for all have constructed this great work. Jafra

Swadeshi Business Models with ecology as business partner

There is no category about economy here to look up or construct such business models!

My personal motivation is that I am planing to return to my home-community which is NOT independent and controlled by foreign power. Socially, the community is heavenly collapsed like so many indigenous communities fall as victim of absurd , political power, profit and industrialization.

To start new sustainable human and moral eco-business in such a community I thought about the principles. On of them to have ecology as corporation partner as it is participating on productions and produced value. Having ecology as partner of production and consumption cycle will create a balance within our relationship to it and to each other as we all share it.

In old-school, state taxes used to cover this responsibility. But I can imagine that future value-corporation community will take more direct influence on their ecosystem if they consider themselves as such. To take ecology as partner is essential as all of us would have the same partner to adjust , revise and tune how much products actually we need with.

There many good sites http://www.corporation2020.org , http://www.futureofed.org/driver/the-maker-economy.aspx, .. but I did not find any document in which the ecology is explicit partner of the corporation. The idea would be to map "natural capital" involved in the business as virtual partner. Part of the revenue will have to flow back to sustain natural capital and make it more "wealth" (wellness) The patterns here are very helpful: http://www.conservationeconomy.net/pattern_map/noflash/index.html

Do you know any business model, where ecology is direct part of the shares so that I can study and use it for my business idea? Jafra April 8, 2009

Sorry we haven't been much help - I'd suggest posting this to the forum at Global Swadeshi. I'm sure you'll get a response there. --Chriswaterguy 17:57, 25 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Understanding natural systems & choices

I've studied natural systems as a general subject for years. Much of the subject is about why they fool us so much, and how they do so much for us we don't understand. It's a big subject, and not even the sciences of ecology and economics have quite realized the importance in living systems in particular, of their being made of independently responding parts.

The general idea of science is still that systems follow the rules we perceive, though that's also the problem, in that they keep making up their own rules too and catch us off guard. Is there an interest in that here? What aspect of understanding natural complex systems would be appropriate here? I have a things showing my range of interests on my archive site, and on the blog with it where I collect recent letters I liked. It’s possibly just too big a subject with too many differing opinions, but maybe it could be a place where people could try to articulate their opinions with the help of others sharing some of their view. I think many of our solutions of the past are our problems of the present, for example, and that people are not carefully thinking through the present solutions any better.

Would there be others interested in building a page or small area on how the natural behavior of systems alters our choices? Phil Henshaw Apr 14, 2009

Sounds like an interesting area to explore - supporting this kind of understanding of the nature of natural systems would be great.

I don't promise to be actively involved (a finger in too many pies) but I'll certainly watch with interest and contribute where I can.

Btw, the copyright notice on your site is almost the same as saying CC-BY, but from a legal standpoint it's not quite the same, and some people will be hesitant to reuse your content. I'd suggest going to http://creativecommons.org/license/ and setting up the license, with the CC mark to put in your footer. If you need help, let me know. --Chriswaterguy 20:56, 20 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

best permaculture videos, especially for dry areas

can you help me finding good permaculture videos, especially for dry areas (short rainfall) ?

Which external links to include in a page?

A link has been added, to several Appropedia pages, to a website which is about an interesting and relevant topic, but which has almost no content. I'm wondering how to deal with that - flag it as a new site awaiting content? The fact that there's no obvious way to for someone to contribute makes me inclined to delete it, but then it gets extremely subjective. We need some sort of criteria to make it more objective... Appropedia:Criteria for external links.

Also, I'm wondering whether to remove the external links section from portals. A portal is mainly a guide to what's available on the site. If we do have external links on a portal, they should be of the highest quality, and then it requires vigilance to keep things that way. --Chriswaterguy 04:25, 3 July 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

References

I noticed some time ago that wiki-specific things like {{references}} doesn't work, requiring the need of typing it in html (eg </references></references>) Can this be fixed, I find wikiformat more suitable