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{{Appropedia:Village pump/Introduction}}
Welcome! This page is the central hub for all matters related to Appropedia. Feel free to ask questions or make comments about specific pages or about Appropedia in general.


== A plan for Appropedia to go places in 2013/14 ==
{{New section|New topic}} {{Button|text=Search archives|url={{fullurl:Special:Search|prefix={{FULLPAGENAMEE}}}}}} {{Button|text=Browse archives|url={{fullurl:Special:PrefixIndex/{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}}}}}


Here's a stab at a '''[[Appropedia:Strategic planning/Strategic plan 2013-14|strategic plan]]''' - what do you think? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 00:28, 19 September 2013 (PDT)
== Software update ==


I think its a good start. I added some comments on the Talk page there. --[[User:PatSunter|PatSunter]] ([[User talk:PatSunter|talk]]) 19:08, 12 March 2014 (PDT)
Ho ho ho, merry [[Green Christmas]]! Here's my present to you: I just finished updating MediaWiki (the software of Appropedia) from version 1.35 to 1.39 (that's why it's been down and unstable for two hours)! The new version is a Long Term Support version, which means it will be [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Version_lifecycle#Versions_and_their_end-of-life supported until November 2025]! This will probably be the last (major) update until the next Long Term Support version (1.43) since it's usually not worth updating to the short term support versions (unless some specific feature we want requires it).


== Thanks and good luck ==
MediaWiki 1.39 brings several new features (plus those of MediaWiki 1.36, 1.37 and 1.38) but perhaps more importantly, it allowed to update all extensions to their latest versions, which also brings several new features.


I'm outa here, folks. Good luck with everything.  Joe
That being said, there'll also be several new bugs around due to the updates. I'll be fixing them during the next few days, but do let me know if you notice any I might have missed. Thanks! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 14:45, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


:We've chatted by email, but again, many thanks for your great work, Joe. I wish you all the best with your next adventures. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 17:53, 14 October 2013 (PDT)
:Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], don't know if this is related, but something a little weird with news templates: on [[Community action UK#News and comment]] I added in two new items via [[News UK]], and removed the UK location from 2 (older items) via [[News by UK location]], both on Dec 15. For me the new items are showing, but also the two which no longer have the UK as a location (?) Thanks, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 11:01, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
:Tried again but a third instance, and one item coming up twice. Tried removing this item from [[News by UK location]], but still displaying, if that helps? Have temporarily suspended [[Community action UK#News and comment]], but you can see what the newslist template produces at [[User:Philralph/sandbox2]], [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 10:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! This is probably an issue with outdated semantic data lingering in the database. I'll try to do a full refresh of the data this week, but let me know if it happens to fix itself before! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:00, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Multiple listing of same items also found on [[Housing UK news]], [[Scotland news]], and [[Glasgow community action]], plus maybe others not yet discovered? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 12:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Finding others: [[Wales news]], [[Barcelona news]], [[California news]], [[US news]], [[Climate news]] all the examples from when a location removed or changed, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:19, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! Sorry again for the delay but I think it's fixed now. Let me know of any more issues! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:17, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] Fantastic! From a preliminary look all the 2022 stuff looks ok, just one item I tried for 2023: bottom of page on [[User:Philralph/sandbox2]] and [[Extinction Rebellion]] is still repeating. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 14:39, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hm, soon I'll have to regenerate the data again anyway, so it may fix that. Please let me know if more repetitions appear! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:01, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], OK, thanks. I'm thinking it'd be good to set up the templates on 'main' pages ie [[Community action]], [[Welcome to Appropedia]] and [[Community action UK]] using something that doesn't need updating. Are there 'magic words' which will produce / display current month and current year, and if poss limit display to max 5 items? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:20, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi, definitely! I just added a 'limit' parameter to [[Template:Eventlist]]. Also check out the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words available magic words] and see what I did [[Special:Diff/695683|here]] for an example. Let me know if I can be of any help! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], Thanks, looks good. I'll have a play. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], if [[Template:Newslist]] could include a 'limit' parameter, which would display the, e.g. 5, most recent items, that'd be perfect. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:00, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Done! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:18, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::::Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], news and event templates seem to have been working as they should for a while now. Thanks for all your help with this. Just one more small thing. Could the 'More Results' button / link be taken off [[Community action]] and [[Community action UK]]? Thanks [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 09:14, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! Glad it's working ok now. I just removed the "More results" button from both [[Template:Newslist]] and [[Template:Eventlist]]. Let me know of any more issues or requests! By the way, soon I'll do some updates to the semantic database so there may be a few hours with incomplete results until it finishes. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:23, 2 March 2023 (UTC)


== Pages that advertise green businesses ==
== How to comment/respond, here? ==


I removed the {{tlx|delete|advertising}} from [[Beyond Building Energy]]. We have been allowing sustainable businesses to have pages about themselves. I like having such pages, especially where they have information that might be valuable to a reader, but we need to work out clearer limits. E.g. is [[Beyond Building Energy]] the sort of page we want to have on Appropedia? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 21:35, 19 November 2013 (PST)
Hi! How do I comment/respond to these conversations without editing the previous text? Thanks! [[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] ([[User talk:StoriesWitha Will|talk]]) 22:43, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:@[[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] Hi! There used to be a handy Reply button next to each comment, but the recent [[#Software update|software update]] caused a bug that prevents it from showing. :-( I just reported it [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:X9zviki367qeczo5 here] and will try to fix it asap. In the meantime, I'm afraid the only way to reply is to edit the page and manually add your comment after the one you want to reply to. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::Thanks! {{Unsigned|StoriesWitha Will}}
:::@[[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] I managed to fix it, but please let me know if you notice any bugs, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 19:37, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
::::False alarm, my "fix" caused crashes to non-logged in users so I had to revert. :-( [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 14:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] Now yes, hopefully. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)


* Maybe there is a need for a template for sustainability-oriented businesses or organisations? I.E. not a delete template, but something to the effect that it is a business, Appropedia does not endorse businesses or their products, but allows relevant ones a page, so the reader should do their own research etc. I also think its ok, as long as they don't try to start inserting lots of "advertorial" style content in more Encyclopaedic pages (an issue we had a while back on [[Public transport]]). --[[User:PatSunter|PatSunter]] ([[User talk:PatSunter|talk]]) 21:06, 14 March 2014 (PDT)
== Possible spam? ==


::Thanks Pat, good approach, I think. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 04:58, 17 April 2014 (PDT)
I've reverted a couple of recent edits from [[Special:Contributions/Strategicmarket]], which looked to me like spam. Noticing a couple of others that someone else might like to review? Thanks [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 13:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
:Spam indeed. I just reverted the other edits and blocked the account. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


::Yes, good approach. Here's another wiki's page on the topic: [https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Welcome,_business_owners]? [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 10:57, 17 April 2014 (PDT)
== Automatic wikitext standardization ==


== spammness ==
Hi! Today I finished developing and deploying the first version of [[mw:Extension:StandardWikitext]], an extension that automatically fixes and standardizes wikitext when saving the page. This has several goals:


Hey I am sorry but I face the spam problem too. I've tried change the content of the page Cshr25, and I was sure I got logged in. No idea why it treated me as a spammer.<br />
* Fix and avoid messy wikitext
I couldn't even leave a message on the supporter's page. {{unsigned|Cshr25 |21 January 2014}}
* Fix and avoid some broken wikitext
* Simplify regular expression search-and-replace
* Eliminate OCD editing
* Bring Appropedia up to a new level of excellence


:(For the record, this was resolved. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 04:46, 17 April 2014 (PDT))
This extension will silently make changes to the wikitext every time you save a page (in the main namespace), so you may be a bit surprised to see changes you didn't make when looking at your own diffs. However, they shouldn't be problematic or controversial, as I made a special effort to be conservative in the standardization rules and to thoroughly test them. Still, if you notice any bugs or issues, please let me know! Kind regards, [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 14:34, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


== Exemplar city? ==
:Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], I'm trying to edit [[Community involvement UK news/2019]] and [http://Community%20involvement%20UK%20news/2011-2016 Community involvement UK news/2011-2016] but keep getting message: "[ZAtEVnd7hAcFeH50tLBGAwAAAAQ] 2023-03-10 14:53:11: Fatal exception of type "Error"" (?)
::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Sorry, fixed. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], thanks, all seems fine now, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


An article [http://www.directionsmag.com/channels/remote-sensing/articles/huntsville-alabama-an-exemplar-city-model-for-geospatial-energy-and-cy/393539] on work in Huntsville, Alabama on tornado resistance, "micro-grid" energy sources, sustainable tech, ... [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 11:18, 15 April 2014 (PDT)
== New Extension:Appropedia ==


:That's very cool! I wonder what it would take to find students interested in developing pages on this. This touches on a bunch of important topics. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 04:36, 17 April 2014 (PDT)
Hi! Just wanted to announce that all JavaScript at [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], all CSS at [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], all PHP at LocalSettings.php, and more, has been moved to a [https://github.com/Appropedia/extension custom extension hosted at Appropedia's GitHub repo]. The reasons for the move are explained there. I've done a lot of testing and everything looks good to me but let me know if you notice any new bugs. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


== Solar at Canadian latitudes? ==
:This is awesome. Thanks so much! Does this mean that all changes to javascript or CSS have to be done at a different place? [[User:Emilio|Emilio]] ([[User talk:Emilio|talk]]) 15:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
::@[[User:Emilio|Emilio]] Yes, that's the one "downside" in my opinion: changes to JavaScript and CSS should be sent to the Appropedia extension (via a pull request or a direct edit at GitHub) and then "pulled" into Appropedia (by me or anyone with SSH access). However, this extra step also implies better code-review and accountability. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 16:34, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


An Indian reservation with a [http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/deer-lake-first-nation-cuts-ribbon-on-solar-project-1.2612020 solar project]. This is a fairly isolated community; I do not think it is on the electric grid or that it is reachable by road. It is not in the far North, only Northern Ontario so laititude below 60. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 19:59, 17 April 2014 (PDT)
== Advocating more of a presence on, and involvement within and across Hylo ==


== New type of axe for splitting wood ==
Hi @[[User:Kathy Nativi|Kathy Nativi]], @[[User:Emilio|Emilio]], @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] and @[[User:PedroK|PedroK]]. I've recently been helping The Alternative Global Co-creators network set up groups on [https://www.hylo.com/ Hylo]. Whilst looking around I saw the Appropedia group there, and noticed this was created around a year ago.


Where does [http://www.geek.com/news/physics-exploiting-axe-splits-wood-in-record-time-1591725/ this] fit in? Inventor & press make some rather strong claims for it. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 16:03, 22 April 2014 (PDT)
One of the reasons I advocated Hylo for The Alternative was that it might be described as a values aligned platform. But also looking around more recently I've been finding great discussions and perhaps a more impressive range of groups there. I've particularly enjoyed reading discussions to do with Bioregionalism, but also for example "How do we respond to / engage with ChatGPT?" I'd love to know what you guys think about this. Also do you know for example of any bioregional initiatives in the Majority World?


== Content types ==
I notice the group is
Public - Anyone can find and see this group &
Open - Anyone who can see this group can join, so seems to me a good place to be sharing our news with a probably quite receptive audience? There were 4 members of the group so far, that's with hardly any content yet.


I can tell there's been a lot of effort to organize Appropedia by topics/ subject matter. But I'm wondering if there's been much in the way of organizing by content type? Appropedia's content is much broader than traditional wikis. From what I can see there's: 1) articles, 2) manuals/ how-tos, 3) specific project/ experiment write-ups, and 4) raw data. Maybe we could have a convo about if this kind of organization would be helpful for users and if so how to do it. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 19:06, 22 April 2014 (PDT)
I'd be happy to maybe share some content to the Appropedia group if this would help? But kind of feel it'd be great to have your voices there, and across Hylo.
Best wishes, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 17:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
:More on Hylo's vision & plans for 2023: "[https://medium.com/terran-collective/co-evolving-technology-and-a-culture-of-stewardship-our-plans-for-hylo-beacb4fdb3ee Co-evolving technology and a culture of stewardship: Our plans for Hylo]", Clare Politano, Nov 28, 2022, 7 min read, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 07:11, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Philralph|Philralph]], Thanks. Here is there newest 2023 update - https://medium.com/terran-collective/together-we-flourish-celebrating-hylos-community-and-collaborations-in-2023-df88733109a7. I am excited to learn more about how they will self fund to maintain their project and hope ot check it out this year. [[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 00:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)


:Agreed - a good start would be clarifying the exact classifications for pages we have. "Designs" seems like another type of content, but perhaps these will fit into projects or how-tos. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 02:00, 23 April 2014 (PDT)
== Advice request re categories ==


:Another kind of content is essays. These may be high in narrative or experience, e.g. [[Reversing Soil Degradation of Agricultural Lands]]. These are about the topic, but probably should stand alone, separate from a topic page. I'd like to have a naming convention, so they can be easily recognised. Should they start with "Essay:"? Should they be capitalised? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 05:28, 21 August 2014 (PDT)
Hi, I've recently setup a new portal page on [[Community action|CASwiki]]: [[Community action London]] (UK), and several spin off pages. It'd be nice to include a map in the portal page, but showing only London UK pages. The present [[:Category:London]] includes several pages showing on the map in London, Ontario, for example. To do this I thought of changing all the London UK type pages to [[:Category:London UK]], but just wanting to check if there might be a better solution? Thanks [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 14:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
:I just realised that putting in a United Kingdom location parameter in the map template might help, but a lot of the London Boroughs might not locate easily or accurately because the names are sometimes artificial constructs rather than actual place names (?) [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:00, 13 April 2023 (UTC)


::As I was organizing the permaculture category, I realized that designs are an essential area to work on. Perhaps we could use custom namespaces. I see that there's already Original: , but that seems to have more to do with attribution than content type. Another option might just be to use categories, but I don't know if it would make site navigation feel messy to have content types and subject matter organized that way. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 10:18, 17 May 2015 (PDT)
== Problem with the rules and request for page topics of interest ==


== Food crops & nitrogen-fixing bacteria ==
The following message is for the board of directors, and I do mention an article that Chris Watkins wrote so I would love feedback directly from you, Chris Watkins, if possible.


Three teenaged Irish girls got the top prize at a Google Science Fair with work that looks rather interesting:
I really love the vision and purpose of the site. I think it’s really cool to have a wiki dedicated to sustainability, and especially having it be a place that allows original research and how-to’s. I’d love to contribute that kind of material to the site and make new pages for topics that haven’t been covered.
http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/irish-teenagers-bag-top-prize-at-google-science-fair-2014-30607710.html


== Is anyone interested in a guide to Greenwashing? ==
However, I did find some concerning material.
On the “Neutral Point of View” page, I found that rule 1 said that Appropedia is not a site for soapboxing. I do understand why this is important, and I have found that many people who use this kind of language have conservative viewpoints and tend to soapbox about it.
I have developed a method to both avoid soapboxing and conservatism, however I found some content on other pages that made me feel uncomfortable participating in the project and I imagine others have found the information and felt the same.


I would like to make a page on the practice of companies presenting themselves as environmentally friendly when they are not in reality (a.k.a. "greenwashing") but I'm not sure if it's something the community is interested in: this isn't a guide for a specific project or proposal for a kind of technology. Is this fit for Appropedia? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 10:43, 7 October 2014 (PDT)
I also noticed that on rule 1 it said that current administrations should not be admonished. While I agree that complaining is not helpful in the development of solutions, the only possible way to develop an effective solution is to first identify the problem. It would be really important for people who make pages about solutions to be able to start their page by laying out the problem, including its political causes down to political policies, groups, politicians, and administrations. Governments have a huge responsibility and role in sustainable development.


:I think it's a good fit for Appropedia.  
Rule 1 also said “Use some other site for dissin da man”. I tried looking up the definition of “dissin the man” but could not find anything about it. Could you please explain what it means?
:(Searching…) Aha – we have a page called [[greenwash]]. What do you think of moving that to [[greenwashing]] and developing it further? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 16:07, 7 October 2014 (PDT)
::Ha. I didn't even think to search [[greenwash]]. I'll see if I can add to that. Thanks. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 10:12, 9 October 2014 (PDT)


== Any overlap here? ==
The page on poverty appeared to be soapboxing conservative viewpoints. There was too much to address everything, I’ll highlight the most problematic piece:


[http://www.survivorlibrary.com/ Survivor Library], for tech that might work after collapse of civilisation. e.g. An early 20th century text on X-rays, the idea being that with that plus basic electrical & glass-blowing skills you might be able to build a medically useful machine from scratch.
“colonialism has in fact improved the local economy”. Then in response to colonial powers selling people and precious minerals it was said that because the area was not being mined, “ it can hardly be said that they sold anything that wasn't theirs to sell.


This is not closely related to anything we do here, but it might include some books of interest. It seems worth a link, but where? [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 08:35, 28 October 2014 (PDT)
This viewpoint seems to be pro-slavery and justifies murder, forced labor and r@pe for the purpose of stealing resources.


This was written in 2008. I do understand that the world was a little different back then. However I am concerned that since then it has not been removed. I am also curious as to what your current stances are.


:Cool! Probably we want a {{tlc|Collapse}}, or {{tlc|Post collapse}}? We don't have a lot of content directly addressing this, but it's definitely on topic. (Personally, I think the chances of modern society really collapsing are very low. ''However'', I do believe in being prepared, and that compiling the info has other benefits.)
I would love to contribute to this site, but do not feel like I can unless:
:So, where... an initial article could be called [[Recovering from collapse]], say? Just a thought. Be bold :). --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 20:16, 29 October 2014 (PDT)
There is a clear statement of disapproval for colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology as all three break the rule of soapboxing and both prevent sustainable development and destabilize developed countries.
::Love it. I often think of appropriate technologies as epi-apocalyptic technologies that we build in the race against collapse. The bonus is that if we do not make it in time, the technology knowledge can be there for the rebuild/re-imagine. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 21:29, 29 October 2014 (PDT)
There is a clear invitation for people to work on sustainable development goals 1, 5, and 16 with a list of pages that there is interest in having information on to break the ice and for people to not have concerns that their work will be rejected for not conforming or catering to conservative ideology.
:::From the looks of it, the content of the site is mostly public domain manuals/ how-tos from the 19th-early 20th century. Certainly there's a lot of commonalities between what people were doing then and the current approaches of appropriate tech and the transition movement. But there's also plenty of "bad ideas" from back then (like just about any application of lead). That aside, how could these two sites interact? Appropedia seems to be pretty averse to PDFs, which is Survivor Library's bread and butter. For the present SL can be used to identify content areas we're lacking here (like beekeeping) and linking to those that are covered here. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 09:38, 17 May 2015 (PDT)


== Media idea ==
Thank you. {{unsigned|Star}}
Hi been a long time.. just checking in to say that I've been thinking in a similar way about this, thinking that there are few forms of media which are written as if collapse is a real possibility (and, having been to a few academic conferences about this in recent months, I think it is a lot more likely than many might think) - or even if it isn't, talking as if the changes we need to make to our lifestyles in the face of climate change are real, serious and urgent.  Which, I think, probably amount to the same kind of thing. I was even vaguely contemplating starting a [http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page wikinews] clone to start putting out news written on that basis.  Oh yes, I forgot to say that since I've been away, I've kinda become a journalist.. as you do! [[User:Joeturner|Joeturner]] ([[User talk:Joeturner|talk]]) 09:20, 10 November 2014 (PST)


:Hi Joe. Thumbs up for all those thoughts.
: Hi {{Re|Star}}. We didn't reply to this message before, but I wanted to let you know that we created a couple of templates to mark [[Template:Topic notice|topic pages]] and [[Template:Essay notice|original research]], asking other readers for any feedback. This is in response to your feedback, so thank you! —[[User:Emilio|Emilio]] ([[User talk:Emilio|talk]]) 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
:Could Appropedia be the platform, or at least an incubator, for your news site idea? (Side note: "Collapsonomics" springs to mind for the economics section of such a project.) --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 14:48, 10 November 2014 (PST)


::Hi Chris - well I'm really throwing it out for discussion rather than suggesting that I have a 'ready made' idea. There are significant problems with the model from wikinews which makes it very bland and has a very tortuous process to get to publication - I am not sure that is really necessary. Also there is no need to feel pressure to generate a lot of daily content. So I guess I'm thinking something which is a bit more than a blog, but a lot less work than a full news site - perhaps including interviews with people involved in relevant stuff (including but not exclusively appropredia projects), discussion of relevant issues etc. It could, perhaps, be intended to be a monthly mag (newsletter or whatever) but with articles coming out as and when during that time.
:Hi Star and thanks for the message!
:Wow, we missed that article when we were cleaning up a few years ago 😱 – thanks for pointing it out. That doesn't represent what Appropedia stands for, or stood for at any point in the past. We will do something about that promptly.
:(We had a large number of contributions that didn't align with our values, and we removed a lot of pages and edits afterwards. This should have been a part of that but we missed it. There was a lot of time before that where we were trying to come to an understanding, and in hindsight we would have been more direct and set stronger boundaries.)
:Re "soapboxing": I think you understand this, but we don't want this to be a place for political arguments and culture wars. (I recall we also wanted to protect our 501(c)3 status for tax exempt donations in the US.) ''But'' we do have values and we do allow for discussing and analysing policies.
:So as long as we aren't explicitly attacking or endorsing parties or candidates, it should be fine. And as long as we're generally focusing on actions and policies rather than people and groups. (But other directors or our ED who are more up-to-date on this may want to clarify.)
:At the same time I don't feel any need to hide my own involvement in volunteering for environmentally oriented political parties and NVDA (Nonviolent Direct Action) activist groups. (Minor involvements, but just to illustrate the point.) And our user pages I'm more of a personal expression, so there's more leeway there for expressing our own POV.
:(Re the definition of “dissin the man” – I understand it as colloquial American English for actively disrespecting/attacking (dissing) authorities. We'd be open to changing the language, which was perhaps never meant to last this long in that exact form. We don't want to seem like we intend to stay silent about policies and actions that go against our values.)
:Re colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology – without defining terms and giving a complete, nuanced answer, I'll say that we are not here to defend or make space for any ideology with a history of harm, exploitation and repression.
:It's also natural that there will be some political differences here. People to our political left and right, but who we can work with on common ground.
:Also, I think most of the real value Appropedia has created so far is in sharing specific technologies and solutions, rather than in broad topic pages. And there isn't a lot of politics to discuss on a page about the specifics of reed bed filtration or a type of photovoltaic cell.
:Thanks again! You've prompted an active conversation. And we look forward to learning how you're interested in being involved. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 00:49, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
::Thank you for replying.
::Wow! That’s wild so many people put edits like that. It’s unfortunate people put information that goes against the site’s values like that but I can’t say I’m surprised, I’ve heard other organizations struggle with similar issues.
::I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16 which I see you have a shortage of pages about. I want to write about both on solutions individuals can work on as well as the systemic changes that would need to happen to realistically achieve the sustainable development goals, I intend to write very specifically and not be broad about it. I absolutely agree that focusing on actions and policies are more important as groups and people often morph, change, and exist in gray areas that can not be judged as good or bad. I intend to write as apolitically as possible, and understand that discussing these topics apolitically will appear leftist to some on the U.S. right, and I will only find common ground with the large majority of the population that is willing to find common ground and not the minority that has demonstrated no interest in doing so. Again I’m sure you agree but am restating as I have met people in the past who misused the idea of common ground.
::Please let me know if you can clarify the stance on political topics. I know government restrictions on funding can be a big pain point when it comes to talking politics in nonprofits. I would like to have some clear cut boundaries to guide the pages, and would likely post this on the page so those interested in working on those pages as well know what the expectations are.
::A sample we could start off with could be:
::-use evidence-based information that can be sourced as much as possible
::-discuss the actions and policies of a group or person rather than sharing opinions or arguments. When discussing solutions, again keep it focused on actions and policies. Be as specific as possible.
::And then later once I’ve written some more stuff I could provide some examples.
::Regarding sustainability, there is plenty of politics to discuss as governments and those in power have a much larger responsibility and impact to implement solutions than what individuals can accomplish, and it must be done urgently considering the stage we are at in climate change and society.
::By only focusing on solutions for individuals to work on rather than systemic change, it leads to a situation where meaningful progress is not accomplished and individuals are blamed for not making lifestyle changes when they did not have the ability to do so due to economic conditions they had no control over, and the role and responsibility of corporations and government regarding sustainability is ignored. Years from now when the world is in a much worse place environmentally I have no doubt historians will look back and be disappointed we avoided discussing the realistic solutions necessary to achieve sustainability because people believed there wasn’t much politics to discuss. In addition, sustainability can not be achieved without the full equality, participation, and opportunity of women and the working class.
::I was interested in a clear invitation to work on goals 1, 5, and 16 as well as sample topics as there have been many times I have encountered people in the nonprofit realm who spoke politely to keep up reputation and appearances and had no problem undermining the work of both volunteers and employees in their organization, as it is a common symptom of the non-profit industrial complex. If you do not know sample topics off the top of your head I could share some sample topics and you can let me know if it’s something that is in line with the vision of the site. [[User:Star|Star]] ([[User talk:Star|talk]]) 05:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Star|Star]], I'm not involved with the board but hope you don't mind if I throw in my 2p's worth.
:::Although you mention individuals, governments and those in power and systemic change, I'm missing any sense that you see value in the power of, and agency of community action? From my perspective, and many across networks I'm involved with: UK, but also Europe and majority world, seen as very different from "the non-profit industrial complex", or "nonprofit realm", being often networks or loose affiliations rather than organisations, and often hugely under-resourced, in conventional terms compared to the three other 'sectors'.
:::I set up CASwiki some 19 yrs ago as an attempt to shift the balance even if just a tiny bit. CASwiki is a wiki within a wiki here on Appropedia. So for example [[Community action|CASwiki]] has a page on '[[Social inclusion]]', which as the intro points out straightaway "used here includes economic inclusion or fairness", and includes just the bare beginnings of some suggested Community Action Projects.
:::As you mention participation, an issue with the SDGs is the extent to which there was pluralistic enough participation in their design. So they might be seen as more of an institutional agenda rather than a peoples agenda. A peoples agenda might have preferred to name SGD16, as peace, justice and strong communities, for example. Best wishes [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 12:37, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
::::I do believe community action is important. I have tried and been unable to gain traction for multiple community action projects in my area so I understand being under-resourced first-hand. Even though I am no longer doing work in that area I have interest in sharing resources for those that do have interest, including personalized community action project ideas and referrals to existing projects specific to each SDG, especially since a big struggle regarding being under resourced is poor advertizing, as people who want to help rarely reach organizations designed to do so. Thank you for sharing CASwiki, it looks closer to the type of work I am interested in.
::::A people's agenda would have preferred tangible action opposed to hyper-focusing on language, doing the later is one of the manifestations of the non-profit industrial complex, as well as one of the key points in the CIA's Simple Sabotoge Field Manual, A Timeless Guide to Subverting Any Organization with "Purposeful Stupidity" (1944).
::::Out of the over 160 SDG sub-goals, many address strong communities so arguing that a word in a title should have been changed is a waste of time. Any additional language that does not meet standards of perfection is canceled by the basic and specific concepts of human rights and sustainability.
::::Again, I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16, with information on systemic change and what organizations and individuals can do. Please let me know what the boundaries are regarding topics and political information. I would also love to discuss the boundaries of CASwiki regarding where information should be added directly versus linked. Thank you. [[User:Star|Star]] ([[User talk:Star|talk]]) 02:22, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Star|Star]], it's interesting how language can sometimes perhaps, even if inadvertently, divide. For example I don't think I'm understanding your use of the word 'advertising'? But I'm still inclined to think strong communities have a role to play in helping people who want to help find the opportunities to do so, especially when at least some of them might exist within the agency of the community itself.
:::::Of course many of us might wish for "tangible action", but if you're suggesting that that and a concern for language are mutually exclusive, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I do think wording and language is important because of the way it affects the distribution of resources and so either reinforces or challenges existing power imbalances.
:::::Talking of manifestations, surely one of the biggest wins for the beneficiaries of existing power imbalances, is when any of us chooses to give our emotional energy to that which might divide us rather than that which we have in common? Of course there's no attachment to the idea of perfection in language, and we need to feel free to challenge each other from time to time, but we can do so in ways which feel respectful to both parties however much we may have an attachment to the idea of plain speaking.
:::::That's enough for one post. How are we doing with regard to the above? Any problems with any of that? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 11:16, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
::::::The reply button is being buggy. This is Star. I was not suggesting that tangible action and language is mutually exclusive, but rather that you focus on it in a manner that resembles the sabotage of tangible action. 
::::::I have a problem with the fact that you doubled down on your hyperfocus of the title instead of asking which of the over 160 SDG goals relate to community action or doing the research yourself. I do have a problem with the fact that you did not respond to my request for informational boundaries regarding political information and where information would be best located, which I have asked for three times at this point. 
::::::Division is a very small win for existing power imbalances in comparison to neglect. I am bothered that this site has existed for as long as it has, yet is so undeveloped. Considering how many people care deeply about sustainability, it is strange to me how empty this site appears. If someone could please explain that, it would help a lot. I feel like respect is an arbitrary cultural standard that is often at odds with both what is morally right and the dismantling of power imbalances. Regarding both parties feeling respected, I feel disrespected that this planet is dying, as well as millions of people, this sustainability project has significant portions of undeveloped content, and you are asking me to agree with your criticism of a title of a work of which you have not analyzed the contents. {{Unsigned|Star|19:00, 13 May 2023}}


::I think it could work as opensource - providing everyone understood some basic rules and there were some protections to prevent people getting misquoted etc.  I suppose I see it a bit more like an open review system to improve content which is eventually 'published' (and no longer open for editing).  Dunno, just a thought really. [[User:Joeturner|Joeturner]] ([[User talk:Joeturner|talk]]) 02:41, 11 November 2014 (PST)
== Possible development of event templates ==


:::''"I'm thinking something which is a bit more than a blog, but a lot less work than a full news site - perhaps including interviews with people involved in relevant stuff (including but not exclusively appropredia projects), discussion of relevant issues etc."'' – I like it. To do it in a collaborative way means that an existing site (with lots of suitable users already registered) would be a good place, but maybe that's my bias. To do it in an open source way, MediaWiki has some advantages.
Hi {{@|Sophivorus}}, I've been thinking about how to make more and better use of the event templates: [[Template:Event]] and [[Template:Eventlist]]. The basic design seems to work quite well, but it'd be cool to be able to display an area's events within a context of events for other areas, (Cosmolocal calendars?).
:::In any case it sounds like something that I'd like to support, partly because it's a good idea and partly because I know that you're smart and no-nonsense. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 16:16, 24 November 2014 (PST)


:Sounds like a potentially great project, Joe. I've been watching the collapse discourse for awhile. What info sources there are leave a lot to be desired. The main thing I'd like to see is something with a lot more fact-based approach. There are some staid and insightful media like John Michael Greer's blog and the C-Realm podcast, but there's also a lot of tin foil types. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 09:54, 17 May 2015 (PDT)
A simple example / mock up here [[User:Philralph/sandbox]] displays the local (only) dates in bold (in this case the UK). More complex examples would include a city plus national plus international events. The display on [[Community action London]] currently is of one London event, plus other UK events. I'd guess up to 5 areas (displayed) would allow a lot of flexibility, so for example a local area, it's city, region, country and international, but also the possibility of a local area and up to 4 other neighbouring or nearby communities.


== Farm Hack ==
Then there'd be a need to identify/display the different locations in a combined list, maybe something like


[[Farm Hack]] looks like prime partners for Appropedia - we should be encouraging cross pollination. -- [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 06:38, 6 February 2015 (PST)
* Local event (dates in bold)
:Thanks Joshua. I'll drop them a line. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 05:04, 7 February 2015 (PST)
* City event, (London)
* National event (UK)
* (all others) International days, etc.


== LH side bar link for sustainable community action ==
I'm only just starting on this, so might not be able to test things out very much for a while. Probably test out event listings for near me to start with. And/or have the context/other areas display switchable, on or off? What do you think? Cheers, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 07:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)


There are now quite a few (c. 300) pages in the [[:Category:Sustainable community action]]. It'd be good if we could have some kind of link from the left hand menu (just to [[Sustainable community action]], the sca main page), perhaps near the collaborators box? {{unsigned|Philralph|17 February 2015‎}}
:Hi {{@|Sophivorus}}, I'm now preferring a much clearer design using existing templates, so nothing further needed, thanks. Examples at [[Malling community action#Events|Malling]], [[Community action London#Events|London]] and [[Community action UK#Events|UK]], [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 08:03, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! It looks super neat, good solution! I'm glad you managed it, and sorry I wasn't able to help on time. Let me know of any further issues or requests and I'll try to do better, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 11:59, 13 September 2023 (UTC)


:Thanks Philralph – you're doing great work. I added it under "areas", as "Community action" so that it fits. ("Collaborators" was intended for external partners, so it didn't seem right.) How is that? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 15:16, 23 February 2015 (PST)
== help has been destroyed ==


::Excellent! Thanks Chris [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 01:27, 24 February 2015 (PST)
Please reinstate the help pages so they can be directly linked to the menu on the left - [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 13:56, 14 December 2023 (UTC)


== Translation students on Wikipedia ==
:@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hi! Do you mean linking to [[Help:Contents]] like before, rather than [[:Category:Appropedia help]]? I just changed it back, check it out and let me know if it's ok now, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:06, 14 December 2023 (UTC)


Sharing this link because it may be relevant to Appropedia and Ekopedia, as we work to connect the different language wikis: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-01-29/Recent_research Translation students embrace Wikipedia assignments, but find user interface frustrating]. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 04:44, 24 Februa ry 2015 (PST)
== Search non functional? ==
:: What's the progress on that project? I'd be glad to help port stuff once I'm finished with Permaculture.info. Unfortunately, I don't know French, but it looks like there's lots of great English-language content and images. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 09:17, 17 May 2015 (PDT)


== Self-healing concrete? ==
"An error has occurred while searching: We could not complete your search due to a temporary problem. Please try again later."
Slashdot points to an article on [http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/14/tech/bioconcrete-delft-jonkers/index.html bio-concrete]; it contains bacteria which fix cracks. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 10:09, 15 May 2015 (PDT)


== Year of Soil & Light ==
Hello, does anyone know why I'm getting this message? Thanks, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 11:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
This is a bit late as the year's almost half over, but it would be cool if we could do something for the International Year of Soil and Light (as declared by the UN). Perhaps some kind of work party or months-long effort to add relevant content. At the very least it could get a mention on the front page. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 10:03, 17 May 2015 (PDT)


:Oops, I haven't been checking this page, sorry! That's a good idea. Perhaps there are existing pages that could be highlighted also? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 05:28, 12 June 2015 (PDT)
:Me, too. Several days with Search Function not working, and this is interfering with my ability to work on several additions to pages I am working on. I have sent emails multiple times, but still zero response. What is happening? Is there any way that users can help to resolve this issue/problem? [[User:TomStanton|TomStanton]] ([[User talk:TomStanton|talk]]) 17:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
::You can try searching with a search engine of your choice like so: appropedia + (page name).
::Just a temporary workaround of course. Hope someone can fix this, thank you [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 17:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
:::Thank you for that idea about how to use other search engines. In the meantime, no sooner did I indicate the problem was continuing, and it seems to have fixed itself. Thank you to whomever made this work again. [[User:TomStanton|TomStanton]] ([[User talk:TomStanton|talk]]) 18:12, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
::::Hello! Thank you Tom and Moribund for your alert and attention to this. We think it has been resolved and our backend crew is keeping their eyes on it. With appreciation to you for this and your years of engagement and impact! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 23:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
:::::Also thank you @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]]! [[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 23:29, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
:::::Thanks, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 12:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)


== Instructables ==
== addition of links to youtube videos advertising paid courses ==
As J.M.Pearce mentioned, [[Instructables]] has some material that could be ported here. But there's a snag. If I understand right, Appropedia avoids BY-NC-SA material. That license appears to be the default on Instructables, so the majority of content is licensed that way. I want there to be a quick way to look up BY-SA content, but I'm stumped. CC's own search utility doesn't include Instructables. Trying to combine a reverse image search of the BY-SA image combined with the string "site:instructables.com" didn't work. Any suggestions? I don't want to waste time going through stuff we can't take. (Incidentally, I was reminded of the website's existence by finding a book of "off-grid" projects compiled by the site's founder. Is he violating his own users' licenses!?) --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 21:56, 20 May 2015 (PDT)


It turns out there is alttext on the license images. So you can enter the search string "site:instructables.com attribution sharealike -noncommercial" to get (mostly) relevant results. I created the template <nowiki>{{Instructables}}</nowiki> to provide attribution for imported material. [[TCMTECH dripper irrigation for rainbarrel]] is an example of what an imported page can look like. It might also be nice to notify the content creator.
Hello, just wanted to ask if these kind of contributions: [[Special:Contributions/27.99.93.37]] are welcome or not? Thank you


Side note: There's been some discussion discussion about CC license violation [http://www.instructables.com/community/A-few-thoughts-about-copyright-and-Instructables/ 1], [http://www.instructables.com/community/Enforceability-of-CC-Non-Commercial-license/ 2] --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 13:04, 21 May 2015 (PDT)
I already removed one such link from [[forest gardening]], because I watched the video and it was not really connected with the topic. Overall, the link seemed to be advertising in nature and did not add anything to the article, so I decided to remove it. Thoughts? [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 08:33, 14 January 2024 (UTC)


:Hey, nice effort with the "site:instructables.com attribution sharealike -noncommercial" search.
:@[[User:Moribund|Moribund]] Looking lightly at the user contributions, I think they are sparse and varied enough to be acceptable. However, regarding the particular link and page you mention, since you're the main author and you actually watched the video and considered it not relevant, I support your removal 100%. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 19:07, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
:Yeah, it's unfortunate about the incompatible licenses. What we are always able to do, regardless of license or copyright, is post a summary or paraphrase together with a link. I think that's still very useful, as it becomes information that can be found by browsing Appropedia (e.g. going through the pages in a category), even if the full version must be viewed elsewhere. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 05:26, 12 June 2015 (PDT)


== Articles about individuals - need guidelines ==
== Lots of video embeds not showing ==


There were a couple of articles about individuals in mainspace, that were a bit promotional in nature. That's not fundamentally a bad thing, but it's not what Appropedia mainspace is for, I think. So, I've moved them to the [[A:userspace|userspace]] of the user that created the pages.
Hi all, think I've been seeing this for a little while now. Some videos look fine, others not showing (?) examples at [[Scotland community action]], [[Reduce, reuse, repair and recycle UK]], [[India community action]]. Thanks for any help with this, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 17:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)


We want to be clear and consistent, so my suggested guideline is that articles about people need to be notable in some way. If they meet [[wikipedia:project:Notability|Wikipedia's notability criteria]] and they're relevant to Appropedia's themes, they can be in mainspace.
:@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! The issue was due to a change I had to do to [[Template:Video]]. Apologies, I just fixed it, though it may take a few hours to propagate through the entire site. Thanks for the report! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 19:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)


We can be more flexible than Wikipedia, though, e.g. by counting popular sustainability/development blogs as "reliable sources" that count towards notability.
== Distorted Excerpts ==


What are your thoughts? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 05:43, 12 June 2015 (PDT)
Is there a way to include all of the Excerpt section from another page without having it summarized and shrunk? -- [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 20:09, 23 January 2024 (UTC)


::I've been thinking about this a little bit, but not about the notability aspect. There's several individuals and their work that I'd like to profile. In many cases the individual is more or less synonymous with the organization they head or the technique they developed. [[Sepp Holzer]] is a perfect example which already exists on the wiki. I can't imagine anyone whose biographical details will be sufficient (for the purpose of this wiki) to justify their own article. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]])
:@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hi! Do you mean without the surrounding card? If so, then I just added a parameter <code>card</code> to [[Template:Excerpt]] that, when set to <code>card=no</code>, will hide the card. Will this do? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 20:28, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
::Yes that works - thanks! [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 14:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)


== My cel not open with any network bicuse is pta cod problem i m forner then come back in her pakistan plz have any idia plz send me or help me ==


Hi Appropedia,
Pls solve my cel network sim manigmint bicuse i m open any id for gmail but not conect id plz [[User:Mohsin Elahi|Mohsin Elahi]] ([[User talk:Mohsin Elahi|talk]]) 12:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
I have a question, and have looked around a bounch and am still not sure where to post it.  First, I so appreciate that you have made this website exist!  It is of such great service to the world, and has so much potential to do even more!


I would like to share resources that involve individual's discoveries. 
:Anyone understands this? It seems like a bug report? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:48, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Mohsin Elahi|Mohsin Elahi]] Can you use https://translate.google.com to translate your message? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
:Hi, can you explain what the specific problem is? Thanks! [[User:Emilio|Emilio]] ([[User talk:Emilio|talk]]) 17:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)


1) is it OK to share about any one who is already dead?
== videos in gallery ==
2) is it OK to share about people who are living by putting a link to a third party? if that third party is a professional certifying body that might get into a gray area of promotion.  I also do not know most of the people who work in the field, but the field itself should have the right to articulate who belongs in it.  Also, attribution for the general category should be given (founder of the certifying body, called ISMETA, whose name escapes me, coined the term "somatic education" and "movement education" which can cover multiple methods of teaching movement.
3) ISMETA also includes movement _therapy_ which is not, by its nature, open source, as far as I understand it (unless you would consider someone offering to be a physical therapist without any training and claiming to heal conditions to be using material they've read in an open-source fashion).  How do I handle this?  is it enough to simply give a disclaimer?


Thanks!
Is it possible to do videos in a gallery? [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 18:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
--JoshuaDM


:Hi Joshua. There's no problem with sharing about someone who is already dead, and providing a suitable link is always helpful. A verifying body could make sense.
:@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hmm, do you mean having [[Template:Video]] inside a <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> tag? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 18:27, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
::Yes - or some other way to use the template video to get lots of videos clumped together instead of one at a time vertically - [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 20:08, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] No current way to do that, I'm afraid. However, I have an idea. I'll implement it next week and let you know! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 20:16, 2 February 2024 (UTC)


:An article being to promotional wouldn't ever be about a single link - it's the overall emphasis and balance of the article.
@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hi! How about using [[Template:Video]] inside a <nowiki><div class="grid"></nowiki>, like so:


:It's fine to share about things that are not open source, as long as the text is released under our open content license.
<div class="grid">


:I hope that helps! --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]])
{{Video|PsP5IJT77fU}}
Thanks, Chriswaterguy.  I will attempt to conform to these guidelines, and if I make any mistakes please let me know so I can correct them.  Thanks. --Joshua


== Nominating Ethan for admin ==
{{Video|v5CdNH3sQT0}}


[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] has been flagging spam, and being an admin would let him work on this more effectively. He's been an enthusiastic and trustworthy contributor here, so I see no reason not to make him an admin. Support, oppose or have another comment? Please comment below. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 06:20, 12 June 2015 (PDT)
{{Video|bPoOvy3elD8}}
:I'd be glad to help out. :) --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 19:35, 12 June 2015 (PDT)
:Support, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 01:55, 24 June 2015 (PDT)
::Great. Thank you Ethan, welcome to adminship. You should see new tools on pages (such as the ability to delete directly). You should also see new tools at [[Special:SpecialPages]], such as mass delete (use with care). Please feel free to ask whenever you have a question. Thank you for all you do. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 17:58, 19 July 2015 (PDT)
:::Thanks everyone. I tried out the delete function on the lastest spam articles. What's the standard procedure for the spambot-created users? I'll take a closer look at [[Special:SpecialPages]]; there's a lot there. Any recommended regular mainenance tasks? --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 13:15, 31 July 2015 (PDT)


== Lightweight structural panels 3D print ==
{{Video|WrSyqGBL5a4}}


Think of a cross between milk crates and giant legos.  Now build a house with it.  If you're actively intrigued about how to address this challenge with a 3D printer, please see http://www.appropedia.org/Lightweight_structural_panels_3D_print  because I really don't know much about how to go about it.  I only have an idea with potential.
{{Video|8CLRTa_ocmo}}


== top menu link for Community action ==
{{Video|431803145}}


Can we have a link in the menu that goes across the top of pages for Community action (as in the areas of the side bar)? I've moved 'Sustainable community action' to [[Community action for sustainability]], which fits better with the link, and is perhaps a slightly less opaque name (plus am making corresponding changes to category names, etc), Cheers, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 08:21, 13 August 2015 (PDT)
</div>


Also would be good to have links to [[Community action for sustainability]] or [[Community action for sustainability|Community action]] on [[Welcome to Appropedia/Categories]] & [[Appropedia:CategoryTree]] [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 07:45, 16 August 2015 (PDT)
Because all YouTube and Vimeo videos have the same aspect ratio, it looks pretty good. However if you start adding meta data or combining it with images, it may start looking a bit funny:


:I bet most-all of Category:[[Taking action]] could be merged into CAS, and then CAS could replace it on the Category Tree. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 11:40, 17 August 2015 (PDT)
<div class="grid">


== commercial article? ==
{{Video|PsP5IJT77fU}}


I'd like for someone to take a look at [[The Economics of UK's Residential Solar Power]] and tell me what you think about it. It's been written by, and links to, a website that compares different solarvoltaic installation services in the UK. I'm not sure whether this crosses a line in terms of advertising content. It does appear to offer some useful, if unsourced, information. I'm sure at least part of the motivation for creating the article was for SEO reasons, but I don't think that's sufficient reason to remove it if they're also adding substantive content to Appropedia. Thoughts? --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 11:52, 17 August 2015 (PDT)
{{Video|v5CdNH3sQT0}}


== Question on Naming Conventions ==
[[File:Appropedia.jpg|thumb|none|Appropedia, the sustainability wiki]]


Was fleshing out an index on my new project page and wanted to ask about the naming conventions for internal page links. First, is it OK to use separate pages for sub-sections of a project or is it preferable to only use sub-sections on the one project page? Is there a convention for naming internal pages and links so they relate just to a parent project?
{{Video|WrSyqGBL5a4}}


Thank you. {{unsigned|EricHunting|23 August 2015}}
{{Video|8CLRTa_ocmo}}


:My opinion is 1) Go for it. If it turns out there's not much substance on a particular page, it can easily be merged into the parent page. 2) Check out [[Help:Page naming]]. I would title the pages something like [[Open House Fabrication]], [[Open House Budget]] and so on. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 12:16, 23 August 2015 (PDT)
{{Video
| 431803145
| align = center
| title = The Walking Fish
| description = A tragicomic short film about ambition, perfection and self-acceptance.
| keywords = ambition, perfection, self-acceptance, fish
| authors = Thessa Meijer
| date = 2020-07-05
| location = Netherlands
| language = es
| license = CC-BY-SA-4.0
| annotations =


:Agree with Ethan. Unless they're short sections, it's often better to have separate pages, that link to each other.
* 00:00 Start
* 00:10 Tenth second
* 01:00 Minute mark


:Having the patent project as part of the pagename is a good idea, so visitors can quickly see what it's about. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 06:54, 24 August 2015 (PDT)
}}


:Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give that a try. --[[User:EricHunting|EricHunting]] ([[User talk:EricHunting|talk]]) 06:58, 25 August 2015 (PDT)
</div>


== Ekopedia status ==
What do you think? Does this solution serve your needs? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)


It appears that Ekopedia is down. Are the site owners/ admins aware of the outage? --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 11:47, 27 August 2015 (PDT)
:Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] & @[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]], sorry to interrupt, just wanted to say this looks really useful for many CASwiki pages. Thanks for this! Firstly just for more efficient display of a small set of videos, see [[Visions#Video]]. But perhaps much more importantly if one wants to hint at networking or timeline opportunities, see for example [[Scotland CAN/video]], subpage of a potentially collaborative mapping page. Is there any technical reason to suggest max number of videos per gallery or page? From a users point of view I'm guessing over 12 - 15 begins to look overfacing. What do you think? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 08:42, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi, glad you find it useful! From a technical point of view, the only thing to consider is that each video requires an extra web request to YouTube in order to get the thumbnail image. Also, remember that in mobile devices, videos won't show in a grid but sequentially. Thus, from a user perspective, I think 6-9 should be enough and 12-15 is a bit borderline. But I'll let you decide that. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


: Yes. There are people working hard on it. The technical details are quite difficult and they could use some additional help. Please contact [[User:Chriswaterguy]] if you know some great multilanguage wiki people that could help. In the mean time, I am making a temporary landing page at [[Ekopedia]]. Please feel free to edit with more direction. Thank you, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]])
== Unfortunate top of page display on some pages ==


== A Two-Stage, Oscillating Swingset Pump  ==
This looks perhaps like a recent change to how 'thumb' (or image placement?) works for images (?) Some pages largely unaffected eg [[China community action]], but on others an expanded image frame, which looks odd in itself displaces the more interesting and dynamic content that should be at the top of the page eg [[China news]]. This also has a knock on effect of making page previews far less effective. Not sure how widespread this problem is, just seen on a few pages. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:53, 28 February 2024 (UTC)


By swinging in this 'swing/penduluum' the other end of the lever oscillates up and down.  
:@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! Thanks for finding and reporting this bug, it's due to some changes I did to image styling. I'll fix it in the next hour, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 16:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi again, fixed! Please do a hard refresh (shift+ctrl+R) to clear your browser CSS and let me know of any more issues, thanks! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
:::Hi [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], an outstanding issue seems to be that in a lot of cases the page preview includes first the image text, which displaces the intended top of the page text such as news items, examples: [[China news]], [[Community action London]], [[El Salvador community action]]. Thanks, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 12:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! I just changed the config of [[mw:Extension:TextExtracts]] so that image captions are excluded. The issue should be fixed now, but it may take a few hours or days to get through the various caches. Thanks for the report! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 21:43, 18 March 2024 (UTC)


This then operates a vertical rod which, with a simple piston air compressor (or water pump), stores compressed air in an insulated air scuba tank, or pumps water in an efficient and relaxing way.
== Open source ecology ==


The heat from compression stays put, and gives more umPH to run two air pistons, which are located on-board the teeter-totter 'chariot'!  (Now stationary for water pumping.
Found the above website today [https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page]


Then, off it goes with a thousand lb. load of goods to a destination. Truly a dual-purpose vehicle!
seems broadly similar to appropedia. Perhaps those editors will want to cooperate ? [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 15:25, 29 February 2024 (UTC)


These two air pistons then power the wheels, to assist the runner/driver with getting easily around a festival area at 10mph cruising speed...with a thousand pounds of people!
:@[[User:Moribund|Moribund]] Hi! As you're probably aware, Appropedia has a long history of merging with other sites and wikis. I'd be happy to help with the migration of content and fulfilling any special technical requirements they may have, but I'm not confident in reaching out to them with a proposal (or whatever is the best way to proceed). [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 
So, the penduluum , that is in the 'Two-Stage Oscillating Lever' invention, now becomes a...children's swing air compressor/water pump!
 
http://darinselby.1hwy.com/2stageswinglever03.html
 
== Am I allowed to start pages in languages other than  English - Español - Deutsch - Français - Italiano - Português - Kiswahili ? ==
 
I want to develop articles in my native tongue, to reach out the locals. This would also give a platform for my language writings to focus on green technology, green ways etc. So am I allowed to simply write articles in my language? [[User:IKHazarika|IKHazarika]] ([[User talk:IKHazarika|talk]]) 00:44, 16 September 2015 (PDT)
 
:Hi, IKHazarika. Yes, we welcome content in other languages. Please refer to [[Appropedia:Languages]]. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 02:08, 18 September 2015 (PDT)
 
== Duplicate originals ==
 
I've been going over the website with a fine-tooth comb looking for things that need to be cleaned up. Most issues I've found have trivial fixes, but here's one that's a little more complicated. Several original content pages dating back to 2006 have duplicate pages. In each case they have their own separate edit histories. See: http://www.appropedia.org/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=%28original%29&fulltext=Search . Duplicates for each can be found as both [[XYZ_(original)]] and [[Original:XYZ]]. I'd be glad to merge these articles, if I can get some guidance on the best way to do that. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 22:05, 26 September 2015 (PDT)
 
== Proposal for mass deletion ==
 
There was a certain user who copied a lot of templates and other content over from Wikipedia about 2 1/2 years ago. Most to all of it seems to be unnecessary to Appropedia, at least at this stage in its development. For example, there are several templates related to news. While Philralph has been adding news to the relevant location pages on CAS pages, there's not multiple news stories coming up every day to make those templates usable. Also there's not a large enough userbase here to update them. Other templates are just outside of the purview of this wiki. Further, they're really cluttering up the category tree. Therefore, I'd like to go through and just get rid of the majority of it. There's probably a few things that might possibly be used in the future which could be shelved in the incubator, and I'm willing to go digging through it all. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 05:25, 30 September 2015 (PDT)
:I went ahead with this. There was at least one template that was deleted in error, so if anyone notices something that looks broken please inform me or another admin. I changed my mind about a news template (see below). --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 02:32, 2 December 2015 (PST)
 
== Porting from PermaWiki ==
 
I received Graham Burnett's blessing to port [[PermaWiki]]'s content here. He was actually surprised it hadn't been done already. Because of long-term interest in PermaWiki here, and both sites using [[CC-BY-SA]] I anticipate no roadblocks. I set up the infrastructure already; ported pages can be appended with '''<nowiki>{{attrib permawiki}}</nowiki>''', which will automatically place them in the PermaWiki category. The full list of mainspace pages can be found [http://permaculture.wikia.com/wiki/Special:AllPages here]. I'll get started on this in earnest once I finish porting the [[Permaculture.info]] content (shouldn't be long, once I resolve access issues). --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 09:44, 5 October 2015 (PDT)
 
:Excellent, thank you! --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 18:12, 27 November 2015 (PST)
 
== OpenStreetMap ==
 
I'd like to propose a new feature: compatibility with OpenStreetMap. First, it's collaborative and open-licensed ([[CC-BY-SA]]), consistent with Appropedia. Second, (in my opinion) the map quality is often better than proprietary map services. More info here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/MediaWiki_extension
--[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 20:19, 25 October 2015 (PDT)
 
:Hi Ethan,
:We are working on a site upgrade as we speak. Once we are up to date, I would love to explore this extension. I love OpenStreetMap. Thanks, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 20:01, 2 December 2015 (PST)
 
: [https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Mapmaking_Expedition Wikivoyage] has two types of map,  both derived from OSM. A "dynamic map" has OSM data overlaid with any WV listings (hotels, etc.) that include lat/long co-ords; almost every destination has one of these & there's a template to make inserting one easy. Some also have a "static map", user-created. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] ([[User talk:Pashley|talk]]) 15:46, 17 February 2017 (PST)
 
== Felicity Tepper for admin ==
 
I nominate {{user|Felicity Tepper}} for an [[A:admins|admin]] role. Felicity has been making many valuable contributions and also tagging spam pages for deletion.
 
Felicity, do you accept? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]])
 
:I've been reading through the admin materials and links, to be sure of the responsibilities involved. If everyone else is happy for me to facilitate in this way, then I'd be happy to accept. [[User:Felicity Tepper|Felicity]] ([[User talk:Felicity Tepper|talk]]) 13:20, 28 November 2015 (PST)
 
Any words of support, any questions or concerns? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 18:09, 27 November 2015 (PST)
:I support! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 18:24, 27 November 2015 (PST)
 
:Me too! [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 02:42, 28 November 2015 (PST)
 
:Support. Felicity has been adding a lot of great content and tagging spam. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 17:31, 28 November 2015 (PST)
 
::Woohoo. Thank you [[User:Felicity Tepper|Felicity]], you are now an [[A:admins|admin]]! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 19:41, 1 December 2015 (PST)
 
Thanks everyone, looking forward to helping out and continuing to learn. Cheers. [[User:Felicity Tepper|Felicity]] ([[User talk:Felicity Tepper|talk]]) 23:03, 1 December 2015 (PST)
 
== Main page redesign proposal ==
 
I'd like to suggest some design changes for the front page. My draft redesign is [[User:Ethan/Main|here]]. There's two main things I'd like to see:
 
1) Reduce size of header and announcements. Right now when I load the main page these two items take up all of the space that isn't dedicated to the top & side bars. I'm not very experienced in graphic design, but to my mind that's a waste of some valuable real estate.
 
2) Add a news section. Phil has been adding news items to [[Community action for sustainability]] on a daily basis. I think bringing them to the front page, and putting them next to the more static content on the front page offers a nice balance. It would do a better job of highlighting the breadth and depth of material covered on Appropedia.
 
I think both of these would spur more interest and participation from visitors to the site. Note that my draft has some issues: the left and right columns can become unaligned depending on what which random selections load. The Highlighted Projects section would also need to be edited to fit the left column. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 21:34, 29 November 2015 (PST)
 
:I'd love to see a redesign. I'll have a closer look at your draft later (getting to work now) but:
:* The part of the header that lists all the topic areas ("Appropriate technology • Construction • " etc) was an experiment, I think, and it isn't necessary as we have sidebar navigation and a search bar. We can remove it and see how that goes. In fact... {{done}}! (If that turns out to be unpopular, any admin can revert, here: [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]].)
:* News section would be excellent - the continual activity that's been happening on Appropedia means that we can keep that fresh.
:Thanks! --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 14:42, 30 November 2015 (PST)
 
:This is looking good. Is there any way to bring the highlighted project higher. I feel like projects are the core of Appropedia and it would be cool to have it above the fold. Either way, I think it looks better as you have it and would be happy have you implement it. Eventually we will have staff for some awesome UX. In the mean time, I am glad that we can all make it better. While you are at it, can you:
*get rid of the links to friendfeed, identi.ca, and delicious at the bottom.
*add Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/appropedia/.
**{{done}} --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] ([[User talk:RichardF|talk]]) 07:06, 2 December 2015 (PST)
:Thanks! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 18:24, 30 November 2015 (PST)
 
I don't see a big conceptual difference between "Community action news" and "Hot topics / In the news." Perhaps the items can be combined into one section or one section with two parts. I put together a sample layout --> [[User:RichardF/Sandbox|here]] <-- to show how "Community action news" could be incorporated into the Main Page, while still keeping the "Highlighted project" near the top. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] ([[User talk:RichardF|talk]]) 06:43, 2 December 2015 (PST)
 
:Hot Topics/In The News is more focused on the work of Appropedians, while Community Action News focuses on the work people are doing in communities around the world. Hot Topics/In The News is closer in content to the Appropedia blog. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 01:02, 4 December 2015 (PST)
 
::That sounds like a reason to keep them distinct but not necessarily separate in general locations on the page. If you all need any more help with page layouts, let me know. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] ([[User talk:RichardF|talk]]) 06:41, 4 December 2015 (PST)
 
Hi all, it'd be good to take up [[User:Ethan|Ethan]]'s suggestion of getting some Community Action News into the main page. [[User:RichardF|RichardF]]'s general locations on the page looks good to me, but there seemed too much text on one band (row). A way round this might be to incorporate Selected Quote into one of the columns (for me adds to readability) example [[User:Philralph/sandbox|here]]. What do you all think? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 10:52, 7 January 2016 (PST)
*{{done}} --[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 08:26, 20 January 2016 (PST)
 
== Nominating Philralph for admin ==
 
I nominate {{user|Philralph}} for an [[A:admins|admin]] role. Philralph has been very active, especially in building the many, many pages on sustainable community action..
 
Philralph, do you accept? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]])
 
::Yes, thank you --[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 07:16, 2 December 2015 (PST)
 
:I second that nomination! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 19:46, 1 December 2015 (PST)
:Absolutely! I thought he was already! [[User:Felicity Tepper|Felicity]] ([[User talk:Felicity Tepper|talk]]) 23:04, 1 December 2015 (PST)
::I, too, was surprised when I realized he wasn't. I '''support''', of course. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 02:16, 2 December 2015 (PST)
 
:::Hi Phil,
:::Congratulations and thank you! You are now an [[A:admins|admin]]. Please see the fledgling [[Appropedia:Guidelines for administrators]] for more info. There should be more tools available to all the admins at [[Special:SpecialPages]] as well. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 19:56, 2 December 2015 (PST)
 
::::Thanks all --[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 23:53, 2 December 2015 (PST)
 
== Feedback on support page please. (New recurring donation option.) ==
 
Please check our donate page, clicking from the left sidebar: Support -> Donate. (I'm not linking it here - too easy for someone to insert scam or phishing links in a wiki page.)
 
I've added a recurring donation option. The page now needs a couple of things, and I'd love suggestions:
* A small number of engaging images from the wiki, illustrating a range of what we do - e.g. energy, water, building.
* More engaging text, for a diversity of potential donors.
 
Thanks! --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 14:56, 6 December 2015 (PST)
 
:Hi Chris, some pics from CASwiki, which could be balanced by pics of other stuff e.g. energy, water, building, etc:
<gallery>
File:Vélo parade - Vélorution - bike critical mass.JPG
File:2009 BrooksPark SanFrancisco 3899032980.jpg
File:KOCIS Korea Jongno Tree 09 (8633200009).jpg
File:South Carolina 1.jpg
File:Maza Wanawake Kwanza Growers Association (1).jpg
</gallery>
 
:[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 09:31, 11 December 2015 (PST)
 
::Thanks Phil.
::Since I posted, I had the thought that I should use images that are public domain or that we have copyright for, so we can just have the images, without attribution links. Donation pages shouldn't have unneeded links, which are opportunities for the reader to get distracted before donating :-). Anyway, I'll look for public domain images - but we could use these images elsewhere. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 16:53, 12 December 2015 (PST)
 
== CC-BY-SA logo links to GNU FDL license ==
 
Just thought I'd point out that the CC-BY-SA logo at the bottom right corner of each page links to the GNU FDL license instead of the CC license. --[[User:Hairless Wookie|Hairless Wookie]] ([[User talk:Hairless Wookie|talk]]) 01:00, 7 January 2016 (PST)
 
:Woops – thanks!
 
:Note for a tech admin: The guide to editing the footer is at [[mw:Manual:Footer]]. I guess we're still on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ CC Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported], but just FYI there is now [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ CC Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International] (but I haven't read up on the significance of the update). --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 03:45, 7 January 2016 (PST)
 
== Tool for converting formatted text to wiki markup ==
 
For those that aren't aware, we have a tool here which is useful if you have a document or web page that you are converting to a wiki page. (Of course, be sure that you have permission, and give attribution as appropriate).
 
The tool: [http://www.appropedia.org/index.php?title=Appropedia:Wikedbox&action=edit Wikedbox]. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 04:32, 8 January 2016 (PST)
 
== A few things noticed since the update ==
 
I wanted to mention a few things this non-techie editor has noticed since the site was updated:
 
*I often see what I think are the announcements at the bottom of the front page, misaligned and where they shouldn’t be. I can upload a screenshot if nobody else is seeing this.
*The blog section on the front page appears to be blank.
*I can’t access Special Pages at all. When I go to http://www.appropedia.org/Special:SpecialPages and click on any of these pages, the response I get is this: The following data is cached and may not be up to date. A maximum of 1,000 results are available in the cache.  There are no results for this report.
*As I add categories to uncategorised articles, the total article count seems to be going backwards. I am not sure why this is happening.
 
I thought I’d best pass these things on. Thanks for considering them. [[User:Felicity Tepper|Felicity]] ([[User talk:Felicity Tepper|talk]]) 02:02, 12 January 2016 (PST)
 
:Whoa – thank you for noticing those changes, and letting us know. I'm not in charge of tech things, but we do have a developer doing a few things. Let's see what Lonny says. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 05:58, 12 January 2016 (PST)
 
:Thanks Chris, happy that it's on the radar. [[User:Felicity Tepper|Felicity]] ([[User talk:Felicity Tepper|talk]]) 00:40, 13 January 2016 (PST)
 
:: Felicity's points 1&2 are the same bug. The blog section list doesn't conform to proper formatting. I'm guessing it's a conflict of the new CSS with JS. The weird thing is sometimes if you reload it *does* format correctly. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 21:27, 21 February 2016 (PST)
:: This falls under "feature, not a bug": since the update any page you edit will have the watch box checked (ticked) by default. Can we turn that off? --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 19:43, 25 February 2016 (PST)
 
== Appropedia in Google's definitions boxes! Conventional farming needs work ==
 
If you search for ''how to measure stream flow'' or ''conventional farming'' on Google, the definition box now comes from Appropedia. Confirmed in multiple countries. Great stuff... except that our [[conventional farming]] isn't as good as it could be.
 
(Thanks to [[User:Lonny|Lonny]] for discovering this!) --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 14:47, 31 January 2016 (PST)
 
: Nice to learn this, thanks for the update. It's great to learn about increasing traction and responsiveness, keep up the great work everyone. :) [[User:Felicity Tepper|Felicity]] ([[User talk:Felicity Tepper|talk]]) 02:37, 2 February 2016 (PST)
 
== permaculture content ready for "prime time"? ==
 
I was going to wait until I finished porting content from [[PermaWiki]] to do this, but there was a recent [https://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/comments/46473m/if_you_dont_want_open_source_permaculture_fuck_you/ heated conversation] about open-source permaculture. I was a little disappointed that our broadest permaculture pages didn't get mentioned, though some other sections of Appropedia were referenced. So I went ahead and added permaculture to the main page header, the sidebar and the main page selected portals (which may need to wait for a cronjob or cache refresh to appear?). I hope to raise the profile of Appropedia as permaculture wiki, because it is the only active one out there (also the Appropedia Foundation is a more trustworthy steward of this information than Wikia). If anyone objects, we can reverse these changes. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 21:38, 27 February 2016 (PST)
 
:Thanks Ethan, looks good.
:We have a number of great content areas, so I'm wondering how best dto display it all... might be something to ask a MediaWiki-friendly web designer. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 06:16, 12 March 2016 (PST)
 
== Support needed to keep Appropedia alive and kicking goals ==
 
I've worked out how to let people make a recurring monthly donation to the Appropedia Foundation, to keep Appropedia growing and doing awesome things. If you're in a position to support us, please click "[http://blogs.appropedia.org/support-appropedia Donate]" in the sidebar. Thanks! --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 18:29, 16 March 2016 (PDT)
 
:Are Appropedia Foundation accounts available somewhere? Would it be possible to have a direct link to them from the "[http://blogs.appropedia.org/support-appropedia Donate]" page? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 02:20, 18 March 2016 (PDT)
 
::No, but I'd support making them available. Maybe we need to look at equivalent organisations (e.g. the Wikimedia Foundation) to help us with out whether there are particular things we need to keep confidential. I'm neither a lawyer nor an accountant.
:::I'll pass this suggestion on to the board. Thanks. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 04:34, 18 March 2016 (PDT)
::::'''Donation error''' PayPal has told me twice:
<code>Sorry — your last action could not be completed
Error Message
 
Your request failed due to technical difficulties.Please try again after some time.</code>
::::Just so you know. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 16:20, 3 July 2016 (PDT)
 
Following on from my earlier comments: could Appropedia make use of [https://opencollective.com/ open collective]? - "A group of people with a shared mission that operates in full transparency"? Might this sort of thing be useful even if used to meet some, not necessarily all, of Appropedia's objectives, at first? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 10:49, 19 April 2017 (PDT)
 
:for more see eg: Open Collectives: transforming our cities from the bottom-up, Apr 11: [http://magazine.ouishare.net/2017/04/open-collectives-transforming-our-cities-from-the-bottom-up/ @OuiShare] and [http://brusselstogether.org/ BrusselsTogether], "lets you create a virtual association so that you can get started in no time and focus on what you want to do to improve Brussels" - though there may be better examples in the context of Appropedia, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 11:10, 19 April 2017 (PDT)
 
== New related wiki ==
 
'''Waterpedia''' See https://waterpedia.wiki/wpw/index.php/Waterpedia:About I figured this community and that one can work together. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 16:15, 3 July 2016 (PDT)
 
== Ekopedia down ==
 
'''See [http://ekopedia.org/ here]''' I get a 404 message:
<code>
 
Page not found (404)
Request Method: GET
Request URL: http://ekopedia.org/
 
Using the URLconf defined in odc.urls, Django tried these URL patterns, in this order:
 
    ^admin/
    ^odc/(?P<url>.*)/$ [name='odc']
    ^_odc/(?P<url>.*)/$ [name='odc']
    ^__odc/(?P<url>.*)/$ [name='odc']
    ^bloquery_post/ [name='bloquery_post']
    ^fiches/$
    ^vol/(?P<ht>.+)/$ [name='vol']
    ^vol2/$ [name='vol2']
    ^show/(?P<mo>.+)/$ [name='show']
    ^show_all/(?P<mo>.+)/$ [name='show_all']
    ^templ/(?P<mo>.+)/$ [name='templ']
    ^mod/(w{0,50}) [name='mod']
    ^web_editor/attachment/add/$ [name='docs']
    ^web/dataset/call_kwx$ [name='docs']
    ^website/
    ^theme_enark/
    ^web/
    ^web_editor/
    ^builder/
    ^theme_common/
    ^docs_list/$ [name='docs_list']
    ^docs_upload/$ [name='doc_add_form']
    ^doc_erase/(?P<name>.*)/$ [name='doc_erase']
    ^static/website/translations/$ [name='noslash']
    ^(?P<url>.*)/$ [name='url']
    ^media\/(?P<path>.*)$
 
The current URL, , didn't match any of these.
 
You're seeing this error because you have DEBUG = True in your Django settings file. Change that to False, and Django will display a standard 404 page.
</code>
Does anyone know what's up? The same thing happens at en.ekopedia. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 20:42, 10 July 2016 (PDT)
: The Ekopedia and Appropedia teams are working together on the problem, but could use more help from people experienced in database and wiki management. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 23:06, 21 July 2016 (PDT)
 
== Spam and Captchas ==
 
Hello Intrepid Appropedians!
 
Thank you for your patience with our Captchas recently. We know that they had become too arduous and buggy. We have upgraded our captcha based spam abatement significantly. We hope your experience is also significantly enhanced! Please let us know if you have any problems editing, joining, posting, etc.
 
Thanks again, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 15:05, 21 September 2016 (PDT)
:Great job! Very minimal spam is making it through now. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 22:48, 25 February 2017 (PST)
 
== Saying Hi ==
 
Hi just introducing myself. I have some years experience on Wikipedia, here I'm interested in studying and working on many topics related to off grid + self sufficient homesteading. If anyone wants to collaborate on such topics let me know. Peace. [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 10:14, 17 February 2017 (PST)
 
:Hi Moribund,
:Great to meet you. Thanks for your contributions!
:--[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 11:24, 17 February 2017 (PST)
 
::Welcome Moribund. Please do share your knowledge and let us know if you've any questions. Your interests are perfect for here. [[User:Felicity Tepper|Felicity]] ([[User talk:Felicity Tepper|talk]]) 15:13, 17 February 2017 (PST)
 
::Welcome! Good contributions so far. Nice to have someone who's experienced with natural construction. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 00:24, 20 February 2017 (PST)
:::Hi all and thanks for welcome. Unfortunately no practical experience of natural construction, but this should change soon =)
:::Let me know if anyone wants to collaborate on any topics. [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 14:53, 22 February 2017 (PST)
 
== Appropriateness ==
 
One area on this wiki that could really use some development is [[appropriate]]ness. I don't fault Appropedia for not elaborating it clearly, since this is a wider issue in the permaculture, alternative building and possibly also the appropriate tech communities. I'm sure we can all think of instances of people becoming enamored with a certain technique or technology without giving due consideration to how well it would fit into the specific contexts. What I propose we do:
# Further develop the general notion of appropriateness across all sustainability disciplines. The [[context]] article is a good start.
# Note the in/appropriateness of specific techs in various contexts, including possible modifications. Perhaps we should add a recurring section for context considerations to specific tech articles.
--[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 20:01, 25 February 2017 (PST)
I should add that this information/ approach permeates Appropedia. What I'd like to do it bring it to the fore. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 20:10, 25 February 2017 (PST)
 
:Thank you Ethan. I appreciate your points and vision. I think that it is a common problem, at least for me, to forget to bring to the forefront the water in which we swim. I am excited to see your efforts in this direction!
:PS Some day, I would like to build some Human Centered Design content and make the connection between empathy and appropriateness.
:Thanks again, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 22:05, 25 February 2017 (PST)
 
== Fab labs ==
 
An intriguing new model of production. Anyone encountered one of these yet?
 
https://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/comments/6eb8hy/i_want_to_introduce_you_all_to_an_emerging_idea/
<small>—The preceding [[Help:Signatures|comment]] was added by [[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ethan|contribs]])  04:57, 1 June 2017‎ </small>
 
:Hi Ethan, I love fab labs and have contacts with a few engaged fab lab'ers over the past decade. Definitely cool. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 12:01, 16 June 2017 (PDT)
 
== RAIN archive ==
 
A digital archive of back issues of RAIN magazine is now available here: http://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/rain_japt/
--[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 22:52, 13 June 2017 (PDT)
 
:So cool! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 12:02, 16 June 2017 (PDT)
 
== Quote and Cite templates ==
 
I think it would be useful to have these ''same'' templates:
 
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Quote
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cite_web
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cite_book
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cite_journal
 
How to transfer:
 
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Templates#Copying_from_one_wiki_to_another
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Export
 
In testing it took a minute or two for wikipedia to prepare the Template:Quote.
It's 22.8 mb with all the history.
 
[[User:Facilitator|Facilitator]] ([[User talk:Facilitator|talk]]) 14:45, 18 September 2017 (PDT)
 
:Hi Facilitator, My apologies on the slow reply. Is this something you are still looking into? --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 11:45, 1 November 2017 (PDT)
 
== Database Dumps are Empty ==
 
[[Appropedia:Current_dump]] hosts [http://www.appropedia.org/approbackups/currentdump.xml.gz currentdump.xml.gz]. This file is supposed to be a complete dump of the text of Appropedia, which is useful for offline browsing. For weeks (and maybe longer), the file has been just 20 bytes - an empty archive file with no content. Can somebody look into fixing this?
 
:We would love help on this. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 12:33, 13 March 2018 (PDT)
 
== Vandalism: image uploaded revert fails, etc. ==
 
A new version of <nowiki>[[File:Thames sunset.jpg]]</nowiki> was uploaded yesterday. Revert failed. Deleting and re-uploading also failed to revert. This file currently used on 14 pages including (often on) [[Welcome to Appropedia/CAnews]]. Have blocked [[User:Xerou012]]. Advice appreciated on how best to get back to the intended image? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 03:11, 1 November 2017 (PDT)
:Thank you. Sorry for the issues. The issue is that it can take more than a few minutes for a newly updated image to propagate through the system. It should be good on all of the pages now... it is for me. If it is not for you, please try doing a hard refresh of your browser. Thanks again, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 11:41, 1 November 2017 (PDT)
::Thanks, [[User:Lonny|Lonny]], [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 11:46, 1 November 2017 (PDT)
:::Thank you [[User:Philralph|Philralph]]! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 22:25, 1 November 2017 (PDT)
 
== offer of  "help to ignite" / invite to collaboration to A People's Food Policy (UK) ==
 
Have emailed an offer of  "help to ignite" / invite to collaboration to A People's Food Policy (UK) - copy of email on http://www.appropedia.org/Talk:Food_UK [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 09:23, 10 January 2018 (PST)
 
:Excellent. Thanks. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 13:40, 10 January 2018 (PST)
 
== Why are you non-profit? ==
 
Why are you non-profit, when you can be for-profit, and use said profit to solve the problems of the world?
Like, document things by making youtube videos, to also get people to watch you helping people, maybe sell merchandise like any good youtube channel does, maybe even sell toy-versions of technologies useful for appropriation, maybe even some tiny e-book of only a few dozen pages, half or more being with only images (i.e. left page text and right page image to go with the text), maybe print some books to give to developing settlements, and make sure to include links or search terms for people who have internet access, and then you can go ahead and accept volunteers to help you out, eventually for the chance of being on youtube, being seen working. The whole point would be to be quite transparent in regards with what you're helping people with, and advertise your merchandise online with lines like "every 100 plushies helps us build one treadle pump well for a settlement, and you can watch us on youtube so you can see for yourself and show others that things ''can'' change for the better, if you invest in the right groups of people.
 
So let's do a recap:
 
* Youtube videos of you doing actual work to help people, posted on your very own Youtube channel
* merchandise related to you doing some of that work, eventually also some e-books (PDFs) and possibly even physical books (i.e. through Amazon), and even selling the very tools and tech you're helping people with, with a plain cheap version for those in need, and a fancy version for those who can afford and want to support the cause.
* allow volunteers to help you out, in exchange for appearing in a video on Youtube, while they work.
* be for-profit instead of non-profit, so you can use the profit to help change the world for the better, one problem at a time.
* possibly also build a bikecar/velocar, which is a pedal powered 3-wheeler 4-wheeler (2 wheels in the front), and the frame can just be some painted textile (shell) resting on an skeleton (out of wood or metal, or even plastic). Preferably make it so it can change gears up to easily going 50 km/h (30 mph), or even faster (to be road-safe).
 
[https://imgur.com/a/hF3LuuJ Here's a logo I've made for fun.] If you want to use it, I can give you the source files.
 
 
Good luck!
 
- Sapioit
:Non-profits can make a profit; it's just that this one doesn't. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 20:45, 20 September 2018 (PDT)
 
::I understand. My point is, by being for-profit, it can become competitive enough to actually change the world fast enough to make a difference in more than just a very few remote places.
 
::- Sapioit
 
::Thank you both. It is true that non-profits can sell products, advertising, etc. It is also true that for the most part, Appropedia does not do those things. We also agree that it is time to change that. The book [[To Catch the Rain]] is one of our first strong attempts at having a revenue stream to accelerate the impact of Appropedia. Indeed we need a lot of IT help (e.g. with spam abatement, updates, modernization, etc.) and server support (it costs hundreds of dollars a month to run servers that can keep up with our amount of traffic). Therefore, we need to bring in money just for those things... and then to thrive! Thanks again, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 16:10, 23 September 2018 (PDT)
 
== Ideas to increase participation in Appropedia ==
 
Hi all, not logged on here in a while although I have periodically browsed articles without logging on or editting.
I am sad to see that this wiki is not that busy (at least as far as I can see). I propose a few suggestions about how to increase participation (disclaimer, I do not know if any of these measures are already in place)
 
* It took me several mins to locate this page again, I feel since this page is the main forum for the whole site (?) it should be much more prominently signposted at the top of all of the major central pages (i.e. main page, "about" page, perhaps even a header on each individual talk page?
 
* I see that permies.com is listed as a collaborator. How about starting a group on that site for appropedia editors to raise awareness.
 
* In a similar vein, how about forming a group on wikipedia, indeed this is where many new editors could easily be attracted.
 
Anyway, I am very lazy these days but I want to collaborate a lot more. Pls msg me if anyone wishes to collaborate on writing articles. My areas of interest are broadly under the scope of "homesteading" ... natural building (particularly eathbag building, passive solar design, earth sheltering), sustainable + subsistence farming (e.g. forest gardening, small scale fruit and veg production), domestic scale + sustainable + off grid energy systems, aquaponics, etc.
 
Over the next few weeks I wish to deveolp material on earth tubes (ground coupled heat exchange).
 
Best wishes, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 07:39, 1 January 2019 (PST)
 
:Hi Moribund,
:Thanks for the suggestions. We are always hoping to grow the community. These few weeks around Jan 1st are always the most slow. That said, we were averaging over 100 edits a day for the last few months (and now have 388,398 edits to date!). Currently our efforts are focused on updating Appropedia's infrastructure so that it runs faster for everyone around the world. It will probably take another two months to finish the updates and migration (especially given our limited financial resources). Until then, maybe you could try forming the group on wikipedia (I am not sure how that works)?
:Thanks again, great to see you, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 00:31, 2 January 2019 (PST)
::I see there are threads on Permies.com already related to this wiki. On wikipedia it might be harder to create a group since they have to be very strict about having all community activity directly related to editing the encyclopedia. However one approach might be to post on talk pages for wikiprojects that might be interested in appropedia. The message would have to be carefully phrased to be relevant to the encyclpedia. For example, some content on appropedia might be useful in wikipedia articles. I also know that they do not allow for "how to manual" type content, and so appropedia pages might therefore be good to link to from encyclopedia articles. Regards, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 04:54, 4 January 2019 (PST)
 
== Article about [[Earth tubes]] on Ekopedia ==
 
I've started the [[Earth tubes]] article on appropedia. I could not see it exactly covered when searching here, the nearest was [[Ground source heat pumps]].
 
Anyway, I can see there is a lot of good info on the Ekopedia article about the same topic [https://www.ekopedia.fr/wiki/Puits_canadien]
 
I've used the google translate feature to try and read the article with limited success.
 
It would be good to merge the content with the appropedia article.
 
I note that Ekopedia content is being merged with appropedia? Has translation already been done somewhere? Regards, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 15:11, 5 January 2019 (PST)
:Sounds great! Eventually we hope to merge completely...but that is not currently happening. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 10:51, 6 January 2019 (PST)
 
== Reporting spam ==
 
Not sure of normal procedure you have on this wiki, but I suspect these accounts represent paid editor(s) who are posting spam links. Also I would take this moment to point out large volume of new user accounts each day, and only a tiny handful are used to edit. Suspect the new accounts are being started by a bot. Is there a way to make the process of starting an account more robust? Regards, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 11:36, 21 January 2019 (PST)
* [http://www.appropedia.org/User:Appsng]
* [http://www.appropedia.org/User:Elissasmart]
* [http://www.appropedia.org/User:Labelle]
 
:Hi Moribund,
:Thanks for pointing those out. We recently have made the process of starting an account more robust. It helped substantially, but there is still much more to do. Our next steps are upgrading the servers and implementing some other spam prevention tools, that hopefully will not increase the difficulty of creating an account and making edits for real users.
:I deleted the offending pages. You can always edit a spam page and replace it with <nowiki>{{delete|spam}}</nowiki>. Or, if you are interested, we could provide you spam deletion privileges as an admin.
:Thanks again, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 14:03, 21 January 2019 (PST)
 
::If you feel that admins are needed then ok, I will need instruction on that though. Otherwise I will pages I see as directed above.
::On the topic, this user ([[Special:Contributions/Andromeda]]) is pasting the same link on many user pages. Regards, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 14:34, 24 January 2019 (PST)
 
:::Thank you. I have nominated you and I will follow up soon. I also posted a request to Andromeda. Thanks for pointing that out. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 18:39, 24 January 2019 (PST)
* Another user page + user talk page that is being used for spam, would appreciate an admin taking a look [http://www.appropedia.org/index.php?title=User:Phen375&oldid=382858] + [http://www.appropedia.org/User_talk:Phen375]. Kind regards, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 06:55, 17 February 2019 (PST)
:::: I'm pleased with the recent tuning of the spam filters. The frequency of spam has dropped considerably. Of the 10 pages I just deleted 9 of them were user pages, so that's probably the area we should focus on next. Thanks for the vigilance Moribund. --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 18:41, 22 February 2019 (PST)
::::::I get the feeling since it is exactly the same pattern of spam each now that it is the same individual / bot doing it. [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 12:01, 23 February 2019 (PST)
:::::::Thank you Moribund for accepting the responsibilities of being an [[Appropedia:Administrators|admin]]! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 19:45, 11 March 2019 (PDT)
Congrats, welcome to the team! --[[User:Ethan|Ethan]] ([[User talk:Ethan|talk]]) 02:08, 12 March 2019 (PDT)
::OK Thanks, I'll do my best. [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 11:32, 12 March 2019 (PDT)
 
==Registration==
On a related note, the page [[Appropedia:About]] states "Registration is encouraged but not required for contributors." As far as I can see this needs to be updated, it is currently necessary to have an account and ot be logged in to edit pages? [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 10:03, 24 February 2019 (PST)
:Thank you for pointing this out. It is now fixed. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 19:45, 11 March 2019 (PDT)
 
== Should these 2 categories be merged together? ==
 
* Category:Gardening
* Category:Horitulcture and gardening
 
I note also that Category:Agriculture contains many articles which are specifically about cultivation of plants rather than production of other types of food.
 
Unless anyone has any objections I was thinking of merging the 2 categories above and moving some plant specific pages from agriculture to the subcategory of Horticulture and gardening. Kind regards, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 10:37, 20 March 2019 (PDT)
 
:No objections from me. Thanks! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 16:17, 20 March 2019 (PDT)

Latest revision as of 14:35, 28 March 2024

Welcome! This page is the central hub for all matters related to Appropedia. Feel free to ask questions or make comments about specific pages or about Appropedia in general.

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Software update[edit | edit source]

Ho ho ho, merry Green Christmas! Here's my present to you: I just finished updating MediaWiki (the software of Appropedia) from version 1.35 to 1.39 (that's why it's been down and unstable for two hours)! The new version is a Long Term Support version, which means it will be supported until November 2025! This will probably be the last (major) update until the next Long Term Support version (1.43) since it's usually not worth updating to the short term support versions (unless some specific feature we want requires it).

MediaWiki 1.39 brings several new features (plus those of MediaWiki 1.36, 1.37 and 1.38) but perhaps more importantly, it allowed to update all extensions to their latest versions, which also brings several new features.

That being said, there'll also be several new bugs around due to the updates. I'll be fixing them during the next few days, but do let me know if you notice any I might have missed. Thanks! Sophivorus (talk) 14:45, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, don't know if this is related, but something a little weird with news templates: on Community action UK#News and comment I added in two new items via News UK, and removed the UK location from 2 (older items) via News by UK location, both on Dec 15. For me the new items are showing, but also the two which no longer have the UK as a location (?) Thanks, Philralph (talk) 11:01, 19 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Tried again but a third instance, and one item coming up twice. Tried removing this item from News by UK location, but still displaying, if that helps? Have temporarily suspended Community action UK#News and comment, but you can see what the newslist template produces at User:Philralph/sandbox2, Philralph (talk) 10:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! This is probably an issue with outdated semantic data lingering in the database. I'll try to do a full refresh of the data this week, but let me know if it happens to fix itself before! Sophivorus (talk) 13:00, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Multiple listing of same items also found on Housing UK news, Scotland news, and Glasgow community action, plus maybe others not yet discovered? Philralph (talk) 12:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Finding others: Wales news, Barcelona news, California news, US news, Climate news all the examples from when a location removed or changed, Philralph (talk) 15:19, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! Sorry again for the delay but I think it's fixed now. Let me know of any more issues! Sophivorus (talk) 13:17, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus Fantastic! From a preliminary look all the 2022 stuff looks ok, just one item I tried for 2023: bottom of page on User:Philralph/sandbox2 and Extinction Rebellion is still repeating. Philralph (talk) 14:39, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hm, soon I'll have to regenerate the data again anyway, so it may fix that. Please let me know if more repetitions appear! Sophivorus (talk) 15:01, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, OK, thanks. I'm thinking it'd be good to set up the templates on 'main' pages ie Community action, Welcome to Appropedia and Community action UK using something that doesn't need updating. Are there 'magic words' which will produce / display current month and current year, and if poss limit display to max 5 items? Philralph (talk) 15:20, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi, definitely! I just added a 'limit' parameter to Template:Eventlist. Also check out the available magic words and see what I did here for an example. Let me know if I can be of any help! Sophivorus (talk) 12:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, Thanks, looks good. I'll have a play. Philralph (talk) 15:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, if Template:Newslist could include a 'limit' parameter, which would display the, e.g. 5, most recent items, that'd be perfect. Philralph (talk) 15:00, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Done! Sophivorus (talk) 15:18, 25 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi @Sophivorus, news and event templates seem to have been working as they should for a while now. Thanks for all your help with this. Just one more small thing. Could the 'More Results' button / link be taken off Community action and Community action UK? Thanks Philralph (talk) 09:14, 28 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! Glad it's working ok now. I just removed the "More results" button from both Template:Newslist and Template:Eventlist. Let me know of any more issues or requests! By the way, soon I'll do some updates to the semantic database so there may be a few hours with incomplete results until it finishes. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 12:23, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How to comment/respond, here?[edit | edit source]

Hi! How do I comment/respond to these conversations without editing the previous text? Thanks! StoriesWitha Will (talk) 22:43, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@StoriesWitha Will Hi! There used to be a handy Reply button next to each comment, but the recent software update caused a bug that prevents it from showing. :-( I just reported it here and will try to fix it asap. In the meantime, I'm afraid the only way to reply is to edit the page and manually add your comment after the one you want to reply to. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 12:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by StoriesWitha Will
@StoriesWitha Will I managed to fix it, but please let me know if you notice any bugs, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 19:37, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
False alarm, my "fix" caused crashes to non-logged in users so I had to revert. :-( Sophivorus (talk) 14:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@StoriesWitha Will Now yes, hopefully. Sophivorus (talk) 13:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Possible spam?[edit | edit source]

I've reverted a couple of recent edits from Special:Contributions/Strategicmarket, which looked to me like spam. Noticing a couple of others that someone else might like to review? Thanks Philralph (talk) 13:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Spam indeed. I just reverted the other edits and blocked the account. Sophivorus (talk) 15:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Automatic wikitext standardization[edit | edit source]

Hi! Today I finished developing and deploying the first version of mw:Extension:StandardWikitext, an extension that automatically fixes and standardizes wikitext when saving the page. This has several goals:

  • Fix and avoid messy wikitext
  • Fix and avoid some broken wikitext
  • Simplify regular expression search-and-replace
  • Eliminate OCD editing
  • Bring Appropedia up to a new level of excellence

This extension will silently make changes to the wikitext every time you save a page (in the main namespace), so you may be a bit surprised to see changes you didn't make when looking at your own diffs. However, they shouldn't be problematic or controversial, as I made a special effort to be conservative in the standardization rules and to thoroughly test them. Still, if you notice any bugs or issues, please let me know! Kind regards, Sophivorus (talk) 14:34, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, I'm trying to edit Community involvement UK news/2019 and Community involvement UK news/2011-2016 but keep getting message: "[ZAtEVnd7hAcFeH50tLBGAwAAAAQ] 2023-03-10 14:53:11: Fatal exception of type "Error"" (?)
@Philralph Sorry, fixed. Sophivorus (talk) 15:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, thanks, all seems fine now, Philralph (talk) 15:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Extension:Appropedia[edit | edit source]

Hi! Just wanted to announce that all JavaScript at MediaWiki:Common.js, all CSS at MediaWiki:Common.css, all PHP at LocalSettings.php, and more, has been moved to a custom extension hosted at Appropedia's GitHub repo. The reasons for the move are explained there. I've done a lot of testing and everything looks good to me but let me know if you notice any new bugs. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 13:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is awesome. Thanks so much! Does this mean that all changes to javascript or CSS have to be done at a different place? Emilio (talk) 15:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Emilio Yes, that's the one "downside" in my opinion: changes to JavaScript and CSS should be sent to the Appropedia extension (via a pull request or a direct edit at GitHub) and then "pulled" into Appropedia (by me or anyone with SSH access). However, this extra step also implies better code-review and accountability. Sophivorus (talk) 16:34, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Advocating more of a presence on, and involvement within and across Hylo[edit | edit source]

Hi @Kathy Nativi, @Emilio, @Sophivorus and @PedroK. I've recently been helping The Alternative Global Co-creators network set up groups on Hylo. Whilst looking around I saw the Appropedia group there, and noticed this was created around a year ago.

One of the reasons I advocated Hylo for The Alternative was that it might be described as a values aligned platform. But also looking around more recently I've been finding great discussions and perhaps a more impressive range of groups there. I've particularly enjoyed reading discussions to do with Bioregionalism, but also for example "How do we respond to / engage with ChatGPT?" I'd love to know what you guys think about this. Also do you know for example of any bioregional initiatives in the Majority World?

I notice the group is Public - Anyone can find and see this group & Open - Anyone who can see this group can join, so seems to me a good place to be sharing our news with a probably quite receptive audience? There were 4 members of the group so far, that's with hardly any content yet.

I'd be happy to maybe share some content to the Appropedia group if this would help? But kind of feel it'd be great to have your voices there, and across Hylo. Best wishes, Philralph (talk) 17:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More on Hylo's vision & plans for 2023: "Co-evolving technology and a culture of stewardship: Our plans for Hylo", Clare Politano, Nov 28, 2022, 7 min read, Philralph (talk) 07:11, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi @Philralph, Thanks. Here is there newest 2023 update - https://medium.com/terran-collective/together-we-flourish-celebrating-hylos-community-and-collaborations-in-2023-df88733109a7. I am excited to learn more about how they will self fund to maintain their project and hope ot check it out this year. Lonny (talk) 00:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Advice request re categories[edit | edit source]

Hi, I've recently setup a new portal page on CASwiki: Community action London (UK), and several spin off pages. It'd be nice to include a map in the portal page, but showing only London UK pages. The present Category:London includes several pages showing on the map in London, Ontario, for example. To do this I thought of changing all the London UK type pages to Category:London UK, but just wanting to check if there might be a better solution? Thanks Philralph (talk) 14:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I just realised that putting in a United Kingdom location parameter in the map template might help, but a lot of the London Boroughs might not locate easily or accurately because the names are sometimes artificial constructs rather than actual place names (?) Philralph (talk) 15:00, 13 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Problem with the rules and request for page topics of interest[edit | edit source]

The following message is for the board of directors, and I do mention an article that Chris Watkins wrote so I would love feedback directly from you, Chris Watkins, if possible.

I really love the vision and purpose of the site. I think it’s really cool to have a wiki dedicated to sustainability, and especially having it be a place that allows original research and how-to’s. I’d love to contribute that kind of material to the site and make new pages for topics that haven’t been covered.

However, I did find some concerning material. On the “Neutral Point of View” page, I found that rule 1 said that Appropedia is not a site for soapboxing. I do understand why this is important, and I have found that many people who use this kind of language have conservative viewpoints and tend to soapbox about it. I have developed a method to both avoid soapboxing and conservatism, however I found some content on other pages that made me feel uncomfortable participating in the project and I imagine others have found the information and felt the same.

I also noticed that on rule 1 it said that current administrations should not be admonished. While I agree that complaining is not helpful in the development of solutions, the only possible way to develop an effective solution is to first identify the problem. It would be really important for people who make pages about solutions to be able to start their page by laying out the problem, including its political causes down to political policies, groups, politicians, and administrations. Governments have a huge responsibility and role in sustainable development.

Rule 1 also said “Use some other site for dissin da man”. I tried looking up the definition of “dissin the man” but could not find anything about it. Could you please explain what it means?

The page on poverty appeared to be soapboxing conservative viewpoints. There was too much to address everything, I’ll highlight the most problematic piece:

“colonialism has in fact improved the local economy”. Then in response to colonial powers selling people and precious minerals it was said that because the area was not being mined, “ it can hardly be said that they sold anything that wasn't theirs to sell.”

This viewpoint seems to be pro-slavery and justifies murder, forced labor and r@pe for the purpose of stealing resources.

This was written in 2008. I do understand that the world was a little different back then. However I am concerned that since then it has not been removed. I am also curious as to what your current stances are.

I would love to contribute to this site, but do not feel like I can unless: There is a clear statement of disapproval for colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology as all three break the rule of soapboxing and both prevent sustainable development and destabilize developed countries. There is a clear invitation for people to work on sustainable development goals 1, 5, and 16 with a list of pages that there is interest in having information on to break the ice and for people to not have concerns that their work will be rejected for not conforming or catering to conservative ideology.

Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Star

Hi @Star. We didn't reply to this message before, but I wanted to let you know that we created a couple of templates to mark topic pages and original research, asking other readers for any feedback. This is in response to your feedback, so thank you! —Emilio (talk) 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Star and thanks for the message!
Wow, we missed that article when we were cleaning up a few years ago 😱 – thanks for pointing it out. That doesn't represent what Appropedia stands for, or stood for at any point in the past. We will do something about that promptly.
(We had a large number of contributions that didn't align with our values, and we removed a lot of pages and edits afterwards. This should have been a part of that but we missed it. There was a lot of time before that where we were trying to come to an understanding, and in hindsight we would have been more direct and set stronger boundaries.)
Re "soapboxing": I think you understand this, but we don't want this to be a place for political arguments and culture wars. (I recall we also wanted to protect our 501(c)3 status for tax exempt donations in the US.) But we do have values and we do allow for discussing and analysing policies.
So as long as we aren't explicitly attacking or endorsing parties or candidates, it should be fine. And as long as we're generally focusing on actions and policies rather than people and groups. (But other directors or our ED who are more up-to-date on this may want to clarify.)
At the same time I don't feel any need to hide my own involvement in volunteering for environmentally oriented political parties and NVDA (Nonviolent Direct Action) activist groups. (Minor involvements, but just to illustrate the point.) And our user pages I'm more of a personal expression, so there's more leeway there for expressing our own POV.
(Re the definition of “dissin the man” – I understand it as colloquial American English for actively disrespecting/attacking (dissing) authorities. We'd be open to changing the language, which was perhaps never meant to last this long in that exact form. We don't want to seem like we intend to stay silent about policies and actions that go against our values.)
Re colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology – without defining terms and giving a complete, nuanced answer, I'll say that we are not here to defend or make space for any ideology with a history of harm, exploitation and repression.
It's also natural that there will be some political differences here. People to our political left and right, but who we can work with on common ground.
Also, I think most of the real value Appropedia has created so far is in sharing specific technologies and solutions, rather than in broad topic pages. And there isn't a lot of politics to discuss on a page about the specifics of reed bed filtration or a type of photovoltaic cell.
Thanks again! You've prompted an active conversation. And we look forward to learning how you're interested in being involved. --Chriswaterguy (talk) 00:49, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for replying.
Wow! That’s wild so many people put edits like that. It’s unfortunate people put information that goes against the site’s values like that but I can’t say I’m surprised, I’ve heard other organizations struggle with similar issues.
I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16 which I see you have a shortage of pages about. I want to write about both on solutions individuals can work on as well as the systemic changes that would need to happen to realistically achieve the sustainable development goals, I intend to write very specifically and not be broad about it. I absolutely agree that focusing on actions and policies are more important as groups and people often morph, change, and exist in gray areas that can not be judged as good or bad. I intend to write as apolitically as possible, and understand that discussing these topics apolitically will appear leftist to some on the U.S. right, and I will only find common ground with the large majority of the population that is willing to find common ground and not the minority that has demonstrated no interest in doing so. Again I’m sure you agree but am restating as I have met people in the past who misused the idea of common ground.
Please let me know if you can clarify the stance on political topics. I know government restrictions on funding can be a big pain point when it comes to talking politics in nonprofits. I would like to have some clear cut boundaries to guide the pages, and would likely post this on the page so those interested in working on those pages as well know what the expectations are.
A sample we could start off with could be:
-use evidence-based information that can be sourced as much as possible
-discuss the actions and policies of a group or person rather than sharing opinions or arguments. When discussing solutions, again keep it focused on actions and policies. Be as specific as possible.
And then later once I’ve written some more stuff I could provide some examples.
Regarding sustainability, there is plenty of politics to discuss as governments and those in power have a much larger responsibility and impact to implement solutions than what individuals can accomplish, and it must be done urgently considering the stage we are at in climate change and society.
By only focusing on solutions for individuals to work on rather than systemic change, it leads to a situation where meaningful progress is not accomplished and individuals are blamed for not making lifestyle changes when they did not have the ability to do so due to economic conditions they had no control over, and the role and responsibility of corporations and government regarding sustainability is ignored. Years from now when the world is in a much worse place environmentally I have no doubt historians will look back and be disappointed we avoided discussing the realistic solutions necessary to achieve sustainability because people believed there wasn’t much politics to discuss. In addition, sustainability can not be achieved without the full equality, participation, and opportunity of women and the working class.
I was interested in a clear invitation to work on goals 1, 5, and 16 as well as sample topics as there have been many times I have encountered people in the nonprofit realm who spoke politely to keep up reputation and appearances and had no problem undermining the work of both volunteers and employees in their organization, as it is a common symptom of the non-profit industrial complex. If you do not know sample topics off the top of your head I could share some sample topics and you can let me know if it’s something that is in line with the vision of the site. Star (talk) 05:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, @Star, I'm not involved with the board but hope you don't mind if I throw in my 2p's worth.
Although you mention individuals, governments and those in power and systemic change, I'm missing any sense that you see value in the power of, and agency of community action? From my perspective, and many across networks I'm involved with: UK, but also Europe and majority world, seen as very different from "the non-profit industrial complex", or "nonprofit realm", being often networks or loose affiliations rather than organisations, and often hugely under-resourced, in conventional terms compared to the three other 'sectors'.
I set up CASwiki some 19 yrs ago as an attempt to shift the balance even if just a tiny bit. CASwiki is a wiki within a wiki here on Appropedia. So for example CASwiki has a page on 'Social inclusion', which as the intro points out straightaway "used here includes economic inclusion or fairness", and includes just the bare beginnings of some suggested Community Action Projects.
As you mention participation, an issue with the SDGs is the extent to which there was pluralistic enough participation in their design. So they might be seen as more of an institutional agenda rather than a peoples agenda. A peoples agenda might have preferred to name SGD16, as peace, justice and strong communities, for example. Best wishes Philralph (talk) 12:37, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I do believe community action is important. I have tried and been unable to gain traction for multiple community action projects in my area so I understand being under-resourced first-hand. Even though I am no longer doing work in that area I have interest in sharing resources for those that do have interest, including personalized community action project ideas and referrals to existing projects specific to each SDG, especially since a big struggle regarding being under resourced is poor advertizing, as people who want to help rarely reach organizations designed to do so. Thank you for sharing CASwiki, it looks closer to the type of work I am interested in.
A people's agenda would have preferred tangible action opposed to hyper-focusing on language, doing the later is one of the manifestations of the non-profit industrial complex, as well as one of the key points in the CIA's Simple Sabotoge Field Manual, A Timeless Guide to Subverting Any Organization with "Purposeful Stupidity" (1944).
Out of the over 160 SDG sub-goals, many address strong communities so arguing that a word in a title should have been changed is a waste of time. Any additional language that does not meet standards of perfection is canceled by the basic and specific concepts of human rights and sustainability.
Again, I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16, with information on systemic change and what organizations and individuals can do. Please let me know what the boundaries are regarding topics and political information. I would also love to discuss the boundaries of CASwiki regarding where information should be added directly versus linked. Thank you. Star (talk) 02:22, 13 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, @Star, it's interesting how language can sometimes perhaps, even if inadvertently, divide. For example I don't think I'm understanding your use of the word 'advertising'? But I'm still inclined to think strong communities have a role to play in helping people who want to help find the opportunities to do so, especially when at least some of them might exist within the agency of the community itself.
Of course many of us might wish for "tangible action", but if you're suggesting that that and a concern for language are mutually exclusive, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I do think wording and language is important because of the way it affects the distribution of resources and so either reinforces or challenges existing power imbalances.
Talking of manifestations, surely one of the biggest wins for the beneficiaries of existing power imbalances, is when any of us chooses to give our emotional energy to that which might divide us rather than that which we have in common? Of course there's no attachment to the idea of perfection in language, and we need to feel free to challenge each other from time to time, but we can do so in ways which feel respectful to both parties however much we may have an attachment to the idea of plain speaking.
That's enough for one post. How are we doing with regard to the above? Any problems with any of that? Philralph (talk) 11:16, 13 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The reply button is being buggy. This is Star. I was not suggesting that tangible action and language is mutually exclusive, but rather that you focus on it in a manner that resembles the sabotage of tangible action. 
I have a problem with the fact that you doubled down on your hyperfocus of the title instead of asking which of the over 160 SDG goals relate to community action or doing the research yourself. I do have a problem with the fact that you did not respond to my request for informational boundaries regarding political information and where information would be best located, which I have asked for three times at this point. 
Division is a very small win for existing power imbalances in comparison to neglect. I am bothered that this site has existed for as long as it has, yet is so undeveloped. Considering how many people care deeply about sustainability, it is strange to me how empty this site appears. If someone could please explain that, it would help a lot. I feel like respect is an arbitrary cultural standard that is often at odds with both what is morally right and the dismantling of power imbalances. Regarding both parties feeling respected, I feel disrespected that this planet is dying, as well as millions of people, this sustainability project has significant portions of undeveloped content, and you are asking me to agree with your criticism of a title of a work of which you have not analyzed the contents. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Star, 19:00, 13 May 2023

Possible development of event templates[edit | edit source]

Hi @Sophivorus, I've been thinking about how to make more and better use of the event templates: Template:Event and Template:Eventlist. The basic design seems to work quite well, but it'd be cool to be able to display an area's events within a context of events for other areas, (Cosmolocal calendars?).

A simple example / mock up here User:Philralph/sandbox displays the local (only) dates in bold (in this case the UK). More complex examples would include a city plus national plus international events. The display on Community action London currently is of one London event, plus other UK events. I'd guess up to 5 areas (displayed) would allow a lot of flexibility, so for example a local area, it's city, region, country and international, but also the possibility of a local area and up to 4 other neighbouring or nearby communities.

Then there'd be a need to identify/display the different locations in a combined list, maybe something like

  • Local event (dates in bold)
  • City event, (London)
  • National event (UK)
  • (all others) International days, etc.

I'm only just starting on this, so might not be able to test things out very much for a while. Probably test out event listings for near me to start with. And/or have the context/other areas display switchable, on or off? What do you think? Cheers, Philralph (talk) 07:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, I'm now preferring a much clearer design using existing templates, so nothing further needed, thanks. Examples at Malling, London and UK, Philralph (talk) 08:03, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! It looks super neat, good solution! I'm glad you managed it, and sorry I wasn't able to help on time. Let me know of any further issues or requests and I'll try to do better, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 11:59, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

help has been destroyed[edit | edit source]

Please reinstate the help pages so they can be directly linked to the menu on the left - Joshua Pearce (talk) 13:56, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hi! Do you mean linking to Help:Contents like before, rather than Category:Appropedia help? I just changed it back, check it out and let me know if it's ok now, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 15:06, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Search non functional?[edit | edit source]

"An error has occurred while searching: We could not complete your search due to a temporary problem. Please try again later."

Hello, does anyone know why I'm getting this message? Thanks, Moribund (talk) 11:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Me, too. Several days with Search Function not working, and this is interfering with my ability to work on several additions to pages I am working on. I have sent emails multiple times, but still zero response. What is happening? Is there any way that users can help to resolve this issue/problem? TomStanton (talk) 17:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You can try searching with a search engine of your choice like so: appropedia + (page name).
Just a temporary workaround of course. Hope someone can fix this, thank you Moribund (talk) 17:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for that idea about how to use other search engines. In the meantime, no sooner did I indicate the problem was continuing, and it seems to have fixed itself. Thank you to whomever made this work again. TomStanton (talk) 18:12, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hello! Thank you Tom and Moribund for your alert and attention to this. We think it has been resolved and our backend crew is keeping their eyes on it. With appreciation to you for this and your years of engagement and impact! --Lonny (talk) 23:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also thank you @Sophivorus! Lonny (talk) 23:29, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, Moribund (talk) 12:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

addition of links to youtube videos advertising paid courses[edit | edit source]

Hello, just wanted to ask if these kind of contributions: Special:Contributions/27.99.93.37 are welcome or not? Thank you

I already removed one such link from forest gardening, because I watched the video and it was not really connected with the topic. Overall, the link seemed to be advertising in nature and did not add anything to the article, so I decided to remove it. Thoughts? Moribund (talk) 08:33, 14 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Moribund Looking lightly at the user contributions, I think they are sparse and varied enough to be acceptable. However, regarding the particular link and page you mention, since you're the main author and you actually watched the video and considered it not relevant, I support your removal 100%. Sophivorus (talk) 19:07, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lots of video embeds not showing[edit | edit source]

Hi all, think I've been seeing this for a little while now. Some videos look fine, others not showing (?) examples at Scotland community action, Reduce, reuse, repair and recycle UK, India community action. Thanks for any help with this, Philralph (talk) 17:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! The issue was due to a change I had to do to Template:Video. Apologies, I just fixed it, though it may take a few hours to propagate through the entire site. Thanks for the report! Sophivorus (talk) 19:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Distorted Excerpts[edit | edit source]

Is there a way to include all of the Excerpt section from another page without having it summarized and shrunk? -- Joshua Pearce (talk) 20:09, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hi! Do you mean without the surrounding card? If so, then I just added a parameter card to Template:Excerpt that, when set to card=no, will hide the card. Will this do? Sophivorus (talk) 20:28, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes that works - thanks! Joshua Pearce (talk) 14:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My cel not open with any network bicuse is pta cod problem i m forner then come back in her pakistan plz have any idia plz send me or help me[edit | edit source]

Pls solve my cel network sim manigmint bicuse i m open any id for gmail but not conect id plz Mohsin Elahi (talk) 12:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Anyone understands this? It seems like a bug report? Sophivorus (talk) 12:48, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Mohsin Elahi Can you use https://translate.google.com to translate your message? Sophivorus (talk) 13:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, can you explain what the specific problem is? Thanks! Emilio (talk) 17:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

videos in gallery[edit | edit source]

Is it possible to do videos in a gallery? Joshua Pearce (talk) 18:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hmm, do you mean having Template:Video inside a <gallery> tag? Sophivorus (talk) 18:27, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes - or some other way to use the template video to get lots of videos clumped together instead of one at a time vertically - Joshua Pearce (talk) 20:08, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@J.M.Pearce No current way to do that, I'm afraid. However, I have an idea. I'll implement it next week and let you know! Sophivorus (talk) 20:16, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hi! How about using Template:Video inside a <div class="grid">, like so:

mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
431803145.jpgVimeo_play_button.png

Because all YouTube and Vimeo videos have the same aspect ratio, it looks pretty good. However if you start adding meta data or combining it with images, it may start looking a bit funny:

mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
Appropedia, the sustainability wiki
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
431803145.jpgVimeo_play_button.png
The Walking Fish

A tragicomic short film about ambition, perfection and self-acceptance.

Authors: Thessa Meijer
Date: 2020-07-05
Location: Netherlands
Language: Español (es)
License: CC-BY-SA-4.0
Annotations:
  • 00:00 Start
  • 00:10 Tenth second
  • 01:00 Minute mark

What do you think? Does this solution serve your needs? Sophivorus (talk) 15:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus & @J.M.Pearce, sorry to interrupt, just wanted to say this looks really useful for many CASwiki pages. Thanks for this! Firstly just for more efficient display of a small set of videos, see Visions#Video. But perhaps much more importantly if one wants to hint at networking or timeline opportunities, see for example Scotland CAN/video, subpage of a potentially collaborative mapping page. Is there any technical reason to suggest max number of videos per gallery or page? From a users point of view I'm guessing over 12 - 15 begins to look overfacing. What do you think? Philralph (talk) 08:42, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi, glad you find it useful! From a technical point of view, the only thing to consider is that each video requires an extra web request to YouTube in order to get the thumbnail image. Also, remember that in mobile devices, videos won't show in a grid but sequentially. Thus, from a user perspective, I think 6-9 should be enough and 12-15 is a bit borderline. But I'll let you decide that. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 13:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unfortunate top of page display on some pages[edit | edit source]

This looks perhaps like a recent change to how 'thumb' (or image placement?) works for images (?) Some pages largely unaffected eg China community action, but on others an expanded image frame, which looks odd in itself displaces the more interesting and dynamic content that should be at the top of the page eg China news. This also has a knock on effect of making page previews far less effective. Not sure how widespread this problem is, just seen on a few pages. Philralph (talk) 15:53, 28 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! Thanks for finding and reporting this bug, it's due to some changes I did to image styling. I'll fix it in the next hour, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 16:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi again, fixed! Please do a hard refresh (shift+ctrl+R) to clear your browser CSS and let me know of any more issues, thanks! Sophivorus (talk) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Sophivorus, an outstanding issue seems to be that in a lot of cases the page preview includes first the image text, which displaces the intended top of the page text such as news items, examples: China news, Community action London, El Salvador community action. Thanks, Philralph (talk) 12:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! I just changed the config of mw:Extension:TextExtracts so that image captions are excluded. The issue should be fixed now, but it may take a few hours or days to get through the various caches. Thanks for the report! Sophivorus (talk) 21:43, 18 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Open source ecology[edit | edit source]

Found the above website today [1]

seems broadly similar to appropedia. Perhaps those editors will want to cooperate ? Moribund (talk) 15:25, 29 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Moribund Hi! As you're probably aware, Appropedia has a long history of merging with other sites and wikis. I'd be happy to help with the migration of content and fulfilling any special technical requirements they may have, but I'm not confident in reaching out to them with a proposal (or whatever is the best way to proceed). Sophivorus (talk) 13:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
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