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<center>'''''Feel free to ask a general question or make a comment about Appropedia. For policy questions, see the [[Appropedia talk:Policy discussion|Policy discussion page]]. For questions and comments on more specific issues, it may be best to find the relevant article (if it exists) and ask on the talk page.'''''</center>
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==Topics that have been spun off to other pages==
== Software update ==
To keep this page manageable, some bulky topics have been moved to their own pages
* [[Appropedia:Mission]]
* [[Appropedia:Anti-Vandalism Measures]]
* [[Appropedia:Logos]]
** Includes discussion of subtitles
* [[Appropedia talk:Technical questions]]
* [[Appropedia talk:Policy discussion]]
* [[Appropedia:Copyrights]]
* [[Main_Page_tests|Main Page prototyping page]]
* [[Appropedia:Promotion_of_Appropedia|Promotion of Appropedia]]
* Past discussions have been moved to [[Appropedia talk:Village pump/Archive]] for easy viewing


== Solar hot water ==
Ho ho ho, merry [[Green Christmas]]! Here's my present to you: I just finished updating MediaWiki (the software of Appropedia) from version 1.35 to 1.39 (that's why it's been down and unstable for two hours)! The new version is a Long Term Support version, which means it will be [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Version_lifecycle#Versions_and_their_end-of-life supported until November 2025]! This will probably be the last (major) update until the next Long Term Support version (1.43) since it's usually not worth updating to the short term support versions (unless some specific feature we want requires it).


I added this to [[Wikipedia:Solar hot water#Usage|'''Solar hot water''' on Wikipedia]]:
MediaWiki 1.39 brings several new features (plus those of MediaWiki 1.36, 1.37 and 1.38) but perhaps more importantly, it allowed to update all extensions to their latest versions, which also brings several new features.


:<tt>Simpler designs suitable for hot climates can be much simpler and cheaper, and can be considered an [[appropriate technology]]; however they will not work very well in temperate climates.<sup title="The text in the vicinity of this tag needs citation." class="noprint">&#91;[[Template:Fact |''citation&nbsp;needed'']]&#93;</sup></tt>
That being said, there'll also be several new bugs around due to the updates. I'll be fixing them during the next few days, but do let me know if you notice any I might have missed. Thanks! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 14:45, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


If anyone knows a good source for this, please add it. Our own [[Solar hot water]] page could be used as an additional reference, if it is expanded to include an explanation of how to make a very simple solar hot water system. (For someone with very few resources, it shouldn't take much more than a black hose in the sun, I'd imagine.) --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small></sup> 21:45, 10 September 2006 (PDT)
:Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], don't know if this is related, but something a little weird with news templates: on [[Community action UK#News and comment]] I added in two new items via [[News UK]], and removed the UK location from 2 (older items) via [[News by UK location]], both on Dec 15. For me the new items are showing, but also the two which no longer have the UK as a location (?) Thanks, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 11:01, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
:Tried again but a third instance, and one item coming up twice. Tried removing this item from [[News by UK location]], but still displaying, if that helps? Have temporarily suspended [[Community action UK#News and comment]], but you can see what the newslist template produces at [[User:Philralph/sandbox2]], [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 10:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! This is probably an issue with outdated semantic data lingering in the database. I'll try to do a full refresh of the data this week, but let me know if it happens to fix itself before! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:00, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Multiple listing of same items also found on [[Housing UK news]], [[Scotland news]], and [[Glasgow community action]], plus maybe others not yet discovered? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 12:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Finding others: [[Wales news]], [[Barcelona news]], [[California news]], [[US news]], [[Climate news]] all the examples from when a location removed or changed, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:19, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! Sorry again for the delay but I think it's fixed now. Let me know of any more issues! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:17, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] Fantastic! From a preliminary look all the 2022 stuff looks ok, just one item I tried for 2023: bottom of page on [[User:Philralph/sandbox2]] and [[Extinction Rebellion]] is still repeating. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 14:39, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hm, soon I'll have to regenerate the data again anyway, so it may fix that. Please let me know if more repetitions appear! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:01, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], OK, thanks. I'm thinking it'd be good to set up the templates on 'main' pages ie [[Community action]], [[Welcome to Appropedia]] and [[Community action UK]] using something that doesn't need updating. Are there 'magic words' which will produce / display current month and current year, and if poss limit display to max 5 items? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:20, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi, definitely! I just added a 'limit' parameter to [[Template:Eventlist]]. Also check out the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words available magic words] and see what I did [[Special:Diff/695683|here]] for an example. Let me know if I can be of any help! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], Thanks, looks good. I'll have a play. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], if [[Template:Newslist]] could include a 'limit' parameter, which would display the, e.g. 5, most recent items, that'd be perfect. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:00, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Done! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:18, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::::Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], news and event templates seem to have been working as they should for a while now. Thanks for all your help with this. Just one more small thing. Could the 'More Results' button / link be taken off [[Community action]] and [[Community action UK]]? Thanks [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 09:14, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! Glad it's working ok now. I just removed the "More results" button from both [[Template:Newslist]] and [[Template:Eventlist]]. Let me know of any more issues or requests! By the way, soon I'll do some updates to the semantic database so there may be a few hours with incomplete results until it finishes. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:23, 2 March 2023 (UTC)


== [[Sustainable Energy booklet]] ==
== How to comment/respond, here? ==


An Australian group is developing a booklet, so I invited them to do it here. It's at [[Sustainable Energy booklet]], and any input would of course be appreciated.  
Hi! How do I comment/respond to these conversations without editing the previous text? Thanks! [[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] ([[User talk:StoriesWitha Will|talk]]) 22:43, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:@[[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] Hi! There used to be a handy Reply button next to each comment, but the recent [[#Software update|software update]] caused a bug that prevents it from showing. :-( I just reported it [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:X9zviki367qeczo5 here] and will try to fix it asap. In the meantime, I'm afraid the only way to reply is to edit the page and manually add your comment after the one you want to reply to. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
::Thanks! {{Unsigned|StoriesWitha Will}}
:::@[[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] I managed to fix it, but please let me know if you notice any bugs, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 19:37, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
::::False alarm, my "fix" caused crashes to non-logged in users so I had to revert. :-( [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 14:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] Now yes, hopefully. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)


I think this is a good thing for Appropedia to do, and also a way to help people find out about Appropedia. --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small></sup> 19:18, 11 September 2006 (PDT)
== Possible spam? ==
some test


== How to monitor changes ==
I've reverted a couple of recent edits from [[Special:Contributions/Strategicmarket]], which looked to me like spam. Noticing a couple of others that someone else might like to review? Thanks [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 13:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
:Spam indeed. I just reverted the other edits and blocked the account. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


I've started a page, [[Help:Monitoring changes]], which might be useful to people here. I've set my preferences so I'm notified by email when pages on my watchlist are edited.
== Automatic wikitext standardization ==


[[H:MC]] will work as a redirect, (though I'm still figuring out {{tl|shortcut}} template, for displaying the shortcut on help/project pages - something went funny when I copied from Wikipedia). --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small></sup> 20:22, 11 September 2006 (PDT)
Hi! Today I finished developing and deploying the first version of [[mw:Extension:StandardWikitext]], an extension that automatically fixes and standardizes wikitext when saving the page. This has several goals:


== Google Grants give free advertising... but must be a registered non-profit ==
* Fix and avoid messy wikitext
* Fix and avoid some broken wikitext
* Simplify regular expression search-and-replace
* Eliminate OCD editing
* Bring Appropedia up to a new level of excellence


Something that could be relevant to promoting Appropedia...
This extension will silently make changes to the wikitext every time you save a page (in the main namespace), so you may be a bit surprised to see changes you didn't make when looking at your own diffs. However, they shouldn't be problematic or controversial, as I made a special effort to be conservative in the standardization rules and to thoroughly test them. Still, if you notice any bugs or issues, please let me know! Kind regards, [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 14:34, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


While we were exchanging emails, Curt mentioned google.org, the philanthropic arm of Google. One interesting thing on that site is:  
:Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], I'm trying to edit [[Community involvement UK news/2019]] and [http://Community%20involvement%20UK%20news/2011-2016 Community involvement UK news/2011-2016] but keep getting message: "[ZAtEVnd7hAcFeH50tLBGAwAAAAQ] 2023-03-10 14:53:11: Fatal exception of type "Error"" (?)
:...the Google Grants program, which gives free advertising to selected non-profits. To date, Google Grants has donated $33M in advertising to more than 850 non-profit organizations in 10 countries. Current Google Grants participants include the Grameen Foundation USA, Doctors Without Borders, Room to Read, and the Make-a-Wish Foundation. For information about the Google Grants program, please visit: www.google.com/grants.
::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Sorry, fixed. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], thanks, all seems fine now, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)


One requirement (for U.S. organizations) is having 501(c)(3) status - I don't know whether that's difficult. --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small></sup> 18:46, 12 September 2006 (PDT)
== New Extension:Appropedia ==


:I bought some books on creating a 501c3 corporation with the purpose of enable grant applications to folks like the Gates Foundation. It's a little bit involved, but obviously people do it all the time. I'll be meeting with someone in the morning who has either done it or is in the process, and I'll ask.  Previously when we discussed this, she proposed that her non-profit could get grants on my behalf to save me the trouble of doing the 501c3. I'll ask my daughter (who works at Google) to see if she can get more info on their guidelines. For example, would it work for another 501c3 to talk about Appropedia?
Hi! Just wanted to announce that all JavaScript at [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], all CSS at [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], all PHP at LocalSettings.php, and more, has been moved to a [https://github.com/Appropedia/extension custom extension hosted at Appropedia's GitHub repo]. The reasons for the move are explained there. I've done a lot of testing and everything looks good to me but let me know if you notice any new bugs. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


:This leads to additional questions about where to host if we choose to go the route of a 501c3. I love this discussion, since to me it suggests that we're thinking big and long term. Thank you! [[User:Curtbeckmann|Curtbeckmann]] 20:31, 12 September 2006 (PDT)
:This is awesome. Thanks so much! Does this mean that all changes to javascript or CSS have to be done at a different place? [[User:Emilio|Emilio]] ([[User talk:Emilio|talk]]) 15:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
::@[[User:Emilio|Emilio]] Yes, that's the one "downside" in my opinion: changes to JavaScript and CSS should be sent to the Appropedia extension (via a pull request or a direct edit at GitHub) and then "pulled" into Appropedia (by me or anyone with SSH access). However, this extra step also implies better code-review and accountability. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 16:34, 28 March 2023 (UTC)


::Let's continue this talk about the 501c3 route.  I am very interested, and we just received an small donation offer, but the donor assumed and needs us to be a 501c3. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 23:38, 10 October 2006 (PDT)
== Advocating more of a presence on, and involvement within and across Hylo ==
:::WOW WOW were you busy last night!  And got a ton done in 2 hours!  I went to the EWB-SFP and I almost feel like I should write a "trip report" or something.  One thing I took away was a similar thought about 501c3, in our case it was relevant to the free google advertising, which would be extremely cool.  Also learned why they want the private wiki; a previous public wiki accidently (as wiki's go) posted $100,000 instead of $10,000 and the target village in Africa got a ''seriously'' wrong impression, much to everyone's upset.  Seems a reasonable incentive to privatize.  Nevertheless, I will soon begin working on their wiki (which is unfortunately Twiki-based), and will do what I can do to clone some of their stuff and move it to Appropedia, with their blessings only, of course. But since I (accidentally) attended a fundraising committee meeting and will likely be a member of that, I will highlight the advantages of public.  They acknowledged the value of public wikis, and the need for a unified one, so it's an easy sell.  Here we go!  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|Curtbeckmann]] 06:23, 11 October 2006 (PDT)
::::Yeah, last night/this morning has seen a build up of tasks addressed.
::::Thanks for the update on EWB-SFP.  One big pitch for public wikis for EWB: Partner connections.  A public wiki would allow for questions, comments and updates from partners afar.  Please keep me up to date on any 501c3 progress.  Thank you.  --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 07:10, 11 October 2006 (PDT)


== Let's let people know about Appropedia, through worldchanging.com ==
Hi @[[User:Kathy Nativi|Kathy Nativi]], @[[User:Emilio|Emilio]], @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] and @[[User:PedroK|PedroK]]. I've recently been helping The Alternative Global Co-creators network set up groups on [https://www.hylo.com/ Hylo]. Whilst looking around I saw the Appropedia group there, and noticed this was created around a year ago.


We can write something for [http://worldchanging.com/ worldchanging.com] - see [http://www.worldchanging.com/guidelines/ Submission guidelines]. Let's edit it here, at [[Appropedia:Promotion of Appropedia/Worldchanging submission|Worldchanging submissions]], and then [http://www.worldchanging.com/form_mail/ submit] it. --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small></sup> 03:35, 15 September 2006 (PDT)
One of the reasons I advocated Hylo for The Alternative was that it might be described as a values aligned platform. But also looking around more recently I've been finding great discussions and perhaps a more impressive range of groups there. I've particularly enjoyed reading discussions to do with Bioregionalism, but also for example "How do we respond to / engage with ChatGPT?" I'd love to know what you guys think about this. Also do you know for example of any bioregional initiatives in the Majority World?
:It was partly thinking about these promotional efforts that got me started on the "building a cathedral" mission statement stuff, which I added further down in this page. A sentence or two about our mission could fit pretty well into the promotion.  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|Curtbeckmann]] 16:23, 30 September 2006 (PDT)
::Just asked AIDG to add a link to Appropedia (which is why I invested in adding them to the Orgs list) and they very kindly came through!  See: http://www.aidg.org/blog/  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|Curtbeckmann]] 11:52, 12 October 2006 (PDT)
:::Hi Curt, Great work. We should keep up these types of linking requests and we should really start working on the article for [[Appropedia:Promotion of Appropedia/Worldchanging submission|Worldchanging submissions]] as Singkong suggested.  --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 12:19, 12 October 2006 (PDT)


==[[Appropedia:About]] or [[Appropedia:About_Appropedia]]?==
I notice the group is
Both of these pages have interesting content, but seems like there should only be one page. You can get to the "About" page by following the link in the footer of every page (misleadingly labeled "About Appropedia"), and you can get to the "About Appropedia" page via the navigation bar on the left.
Public - Anyone can find and see this group &
Open - Anyone who can see this group can join, so seems to me a good place to be sharing our news with a probably quite receptive audience? There were 4 members of the group so far, that's with hardly any content yet.


For a check on convention, I went to Wikipedia, and found [[Wikipedia:About]]. There is no "About Wikipedia" page.  Based on that, I'll start to migrate the distinct content on [[Appropedia:About_Appropedia]] to [[Appropedia:About]] when I have a good chunk of time. Presumably I can figure out how to redirect after that, or may need some help there, or perhaps the old page can go away and the nav link can go directly to About... 
I'd be happy to maybe share some content to the Appropedia group if this would help? But kind of feel it'd be great to have your voices there, and across Hylo.
Best wishes, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 17:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
:More on Hylo's vision & plans for 2023: "[https://medium.com/terran-collective/co-evolving-technology-and-a-culture-of-stewardship-our-plans-for-hylo-beacb4fdb3ee Co-evolving technology and a culture of stewardship: Our plans for Hylo]", Clare Politano, Nov 28, 2022, 7 min read, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 07:11, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
::Hi @[[User:Philralph|Philralph]], Thanks. Here is there newest 2023 update - https://medium.com/terran-collective/together-we-flourish-celebrating-hylos-community-and-collaborations-in-2023-df88733109a7. I am excited to learn more about how they will self fund to maintain their project and hope ot check it out this year. [[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 00:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)


:[[Appropedia:About]] is definitely the page we should keep as far as the title, as well as content, is concerned.  The content on [[Appropedia:About_Appropedia]] is now outdated.  It was more of my original thoughts/words, but needs to be updated.  I am still working on some technical aspects, such as citations, interwiki links, google sitemapping and rank, statistic analyzing and such... but I will start working on new content to replace the stuff at [[Appropedia:About_Appropedia]] that needs to move to [[Appropedia:About]].  Some of this information is spread throughout other conversations, especially those between [[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] and [[User:Lonny|me]]  --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 02:31, 1 October 2006 (PDT)
== Advice request re categories ==


::So is the best short term action a simple (what the heck, seems simple to me) change of the nav bar to point to [[Appropedia:About]], so it is in sync with the link in the footer? --[[User:Curtbeckmann|Curtbeckmann]] 18:27, 1 October 2006 (PDT)
Hi, I've recently setup a new portal page on [[Community action|CASwiki]]: [[Community action London]] (UK), and several spin off pages. It'd be nice to include a map in the portal page, but showing only London UK pages. The present [[:Category:London]] includes several pages showing on the map in London, Ontario, for example. To do this I thought of changing all the London UK type pages to [[:Category:London UK]], but just wanting to check if there might be a better solution? Thanks [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 14:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
:I just realised that putting in a United Kingdom location parameter in the map template might help, but a lot of the London Boroughs might not locate easily or accurately because the names are sometimes artificial constructs rather than actual place names (?) [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:00, 13 April 2023 (UTC)


:::Done.  I will keep working on more updated content.  --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 18:34, 1 October 2006 (PDT)
== Problem with the rules and request for page topics of interest ==
::::Thanks! I guess this topic is not quite closed, so I won't delete it for a while, despite my aggressiveness in scrubbing various pages :-)  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|Curtbeckmann]] 12:53, 2 October 2006 (PDT)


==News? Wind? Transportation?==
The following message is for the board of directors, and I do mention an article that Chris Watkins wrote so I would love feedback directly from you, Chris Watkins, if possible.
Just saw this amazing claim, and if it's legit it is a great example of Appropriate Technology, and aimed at an unexpected place:
http://zdnet.com.com/1606-2_2-6122431.html


Wind aided container ship propulsion.  Massive sail, nearly a hectare, provides 10,000 horsepower.  Hope it's real.  I went to stick it under Topics, which seemed appropriate.  Maybe transportation, but didn't find anything associated with Wind (is wind considered a form of solar?). Mostly I put it here because it seems like news.  I'm thinking that some kind of news section (maybe "recent events" or something) might bring people back to the site.  It would be a good page for occasional visitors to "watch".  It would also be a good page for a content-weak contributor (like me) to add to :-) 
I really love the vision and purpose of the site. I think it’s really cool to have a wiki dedicated to sustainability, and especially having it be a place that allows original research and how-to’s. I’d love to contribute that kind of material to the site and make new pages for topics that haven’t been covered.
All this reminds me of the interesting new fan patents that I heard about in Mill Valley or Sausalito or wherever (which I can't quite recall, but may have sent out).  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|Curtbeckmann]] 11:56, 10 October 2006 (PDT)
:I think that we can make a page named News Review and/or Link Review.  We could archive older threads and encourage comments.  This could look a lot like [[book reviews]].  I use something like this on my Moodle (private) site, and would rather have it here.  In addition we could run a [http://pligg.com/ pligg], but [http://www.hugg.com hugg] already has something like that. 
::I like the [[News review]] idea. Perhaps with a separate commentary section (e.g. on same page, with commentary after the news item). This would enable us to point out, for example, whether something is proven, unproven or wildly speculative. But we need to think more about this - I'd like to ensure we don't replicate something that [http://www.hugg.com hugg] is already doing well. --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 19:01, 10 October 2006 (PDT)
:BTW Check out this [http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71908-0.html?tw=wn_technology_2 kite]/wind technology. 
:We do need a [[:Category:Wind Power]] topic category.--[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 15:53, 10 October 2006 (PDT)
::We have [[:Category:Wind power]] (different capitalization) but it's only got one article.  


::Curt: I remember reading about cargo ships with sails to reduce fuel consumption in Popular Science mag in the 1980's - Popular Science is probably not the most reliable resource, in hindsight (more sensationalism than hard science), but the idea's been around for a while. I'm not sure how high fuel costs would have to go before this becomes more cost effective than conventional fuel, as well as biodiesel. If there are differences in speed, that would affect the trade-off as well (time is money). Love the idea though.
However, I did find some concerning material.
On the “Neutral Point of View” page, I found that rule 1 said that Appropedia is not a site for soapboxing. I do understand why this is important, and I have found that many people who use this kind of language have conservative viewpoints and tend to soapbox about it.
I have developed a method to both avoid soapboxing and conservatism, however I found some content on other pages that made me feel uncomfortable participating in the project and I imagine others have found the information and felt the same.


::I couldn't play the video (even when I looked the video up on other sites) - my version of Linux probably doesn't have the codecs for that video. But I read the summary, and it does sound like quite a different version from what I read about all those years ago. --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 19:01, 10 October 2006 (PDT)
I also noticed that on rule 1 it said that current administrations should not be admonished. While I agree that complaining is not helpful in the development of solutions, the only possible way to develop an effective solution is to first identify the problem. It would be really important for people who make pages about solutions to be able to start their page by laying out the problem, including its political causes down to political policies, groups, politicians, and administrations. Governments have a huge responsibility and role in sustainable development.


== Refining Newpageresource template & others ==
Rule 1 also said “Use some other site for dissin da man”. I tried looking up the definition of “dissin the man” but could not find anything about it. Could you please explain what it means?


As we're now using certain templates on every page, we need to work on them to make them as helpful yet unobtrusive as possible.  
The page on poverty appeared to be soapboxing conservative viewpoints. There was too much to address everything, I’ll highlight the most problematic piece:


{{tl|Newpageresource}} could be made briefer and easier to create new pages if we had the "inputbox" code working here, as at [[wikia:scratchpad:Template:New_wiki|wikia]]. Any chance we could do that? (Lonny, Goodsignal?) --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 22:56, 15 October 2006 (PDT)
“colonialism has in fact improved the local economy”. Then in response to colonial powers selling people and precious minerals it was said that because the area was not being mined, it can hardly be said that they sold anything that wasn't theirs to sell.
:Brilliant.  I think I remember you suggesting this before... but here it is - [[Appropedia:Temporary_wikitests#Input_box]].  I am very excited about this addition.  I think that this will make the process clearer, less intimidating and it allows us to have different text automatically show up in the edit box. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 01:04, 16 October 2006 (PDT)


:The {{tl|Newpageresource}} is only being used on '''topic''' categories.
This viewpoint seems to be pro-slavery and justifies murder, forced labor and r@pe for the purpose of stealing resources.
:The {{tl|Createnewpage}} is for the ''area'' categories.
:''I am working on answering your other questions clearly as well.  Will get back to you soon on those.'' --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 01:04, 16 October 2006 (PDT)


::Good work at [[Appropedia:Temporary wikitests#Input box]], Lonny. Re the [[Appropedia:Temporary wikitests#Input box array|Input box array]], though, I'd be strongly inclined to just have the one box, and a link for further information on editing. Some pages will miss out on the automatic categorization, but we will generally pick those up in the usual ways, and fix them. --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 00:59, 16 October 2006 (PDT)
This was written in 2008. I do understand that the world was a little different back then. However I am concerned that since then it has not been removed. I am also curious as to what your current stances are.


:::I agree with your sentiments in most ways about the input box array.  But the array would allow for more than just automatic categorization, it would allow for the empty edit box to be filled with a specialized template to start out editors.  I was thinking about the array on just one or two help or call-to-action pages about creating pages. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 01:09, 16 October 2006 (PDT)
I would love to contribute to this site, but do not feel like I can unless:
There is a clear statement of disapproval for colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology as all three break the rule of soapboxing and both prevent sustainable development and destabilize developed countries.
There is a clear invitation for people to work on sustainable development goals 1, 5, and 16 with a list of pages that there is interest in having information on to break the ice and for people to not have concerns that their work will be rejected for not conforming or catering to conservative ideology.


::::Ah, fair enough. If it's only used a few times it could be useful (and help new users learn about categorization and whatever else is in the template. Sounds good. --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 01:20, 16 October 2006 (PDT)
Thank you. {{unsigned|Star}}
:::::I'm still getting caught up from my break, and BOY do I like this!  Like Chris, I'm happy if the array doesn't appear too often.  Sounds like the plan (when we all love the strategy?) is to add these input boxes on the various key category (i.e. "area") pages?  And those pages could intelligently prepopulate the page with categorization and maybe some hints about content etc?  Like "<nowiki><!-- If you've got some timelines, you might want to put them here --></nowiki>" or whatever.  That would enable us to remove the "suggestions" box on the main page and replace it with a one-line "Useful Tip". --[[User:Curtbeckmann|Curtbeckmann]] 18:44, 17 October 2006 (PDT)


== New page templates - slim down? ==
: Hi {{Re|Star}}. We didn't reply to this message before, but I wanted to let you know that we created a couple of templates to mark [[Template:Topic notice|topic pages]] and [[Template:Essay notice|original research]], asking other readers for any feedback. This is in response to your feedback, so thank you! —[[User:Emilio|Emilio]] ([[User talk:Emilio|talk]]) 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


More good work happening at good speed, with the default pages such as {{tl|NewOrganizationpage}} and {{tl|NewProjectpage}}. I would suggest, though, that we keep those pages as simple as possible. Wiki newbies could easily look at all the comments and explanations and feel very daunted. I think as long as we've already explained (in {{tl|Newparampageresource}}) that people should "not worry about formatting or completeness, others will help and changes are easily made" we should give them as blank a slate as possible to work on.  
:Hi Star and thanks for the message!
:Wow, we missed that article when we were cleaning up a few years ago 😱 – thanks for pointing it out. That doesn't represent what Appropedia stands for, or stood for at any point in the past. We will do something about that promptly.
:(We had a large number of contributions that didn't align with our values, and we removed a lot of pages and edits afterwards. This should have been a part of that but we missed it. There was a lot of time before that where we were trying to come to an understanding, and in hindsight we would have been more direct and set stronger boundaries.)
:Re "soapboxing": I think you understand this, but we don't want this to be a place for political arguments and culture wars. (I recall we also wanted to protect our 501(c)3 status for tax exempt donations in the US.) ''But'' we do have values and we do allow for discussing and analysing policies.
:So as long as we aren't explicitly attacking or endorsing parties or candidates, it should be fine. And as long as we're generally focusing on actions and policies rather than people and groups. (But other directors or our ED who are more up-to-date on this may want to clarify.)
:At the same time I don't feel any need to hide my own involvement in volunteering for environmentally oriented political parties and NVDA (Nonviolent Direct Action) activist groups. (Minor involvements, but just to illustrate the point.) And our user pages I'm more of a personal expression, so there's more leeway there for expressing our own POV.
:(Re the definition of “dissin the man” – I understand it as colloquial American English for actively disrespecting/attacking (dissing) authorities. We'd be open to changing the language, which was perhaps never meant to last this long in that exact form. We don't want to seem like we intend to stay silent about policies and actions that go against our values.)
:Re colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology – without defining terms and giving a complete, nuanced answer, I'll say that we are not here to defend or make space for any ideology with a history of harm, exploitation and repression.
:It's also natural that there will be some political differences here. People to our political left and right, but who we can work with on common ground.
:Also, I think most of the real value Appropedia has created so far is in sharing specific technologies and solutions, rather than in broad topic pages. And there isn't a lot of politics to discuss on a page about the specifics of reed bed filtration or a type of photovoltaic cell.
:Thanks again! You've prompted an active conversation. And we look forward to learning how you're interested in being involved. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 00:49, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
::Thank you for replying.
::Wow! That’s wild so many people put edits like that. It’s unfortunate people put information that goes against the site’s values like that but I can’t say I’m surprised, I’ve heard other organizations struggle with similar issues.
::I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16 which I see you have a shortage of pages about. I want to write about both on solutions individuals can work on as well as the systemic changes that would need to happen to realistically achieve the sustainable development goals, I intend to write very specifically and not be broad about it. I absolutely agree that focusing on actions and policies are more important as groups and people often morph, change, and exist in gray areas that can not be judged as good or bad. I intend to write as apolitically as possible, and understand that discussing these topics apolitically will appear leftist to some on the U.S. right, and I will only find common ground with the large majority of the population that is willing to find common ground and not the minority that has demonstrated no interest in doing so. Again I’m sure you agree but am restating as I have met people in the past who misused the idea of common ground.
::Please let me know if you can clarify the stance on political topics. I know government restrictions on funding can be a big pain point when it comes to talking politics in nonprofits. I would like to have some clear cut boundaries to guide the pages, and would likely post this on the page so those interested in working on those pages as well know what the expectations are.
::A sample we could start off with could be:
::-use evidence-based information that can be sourced as much as possible
::-discuss the actions and policies of a group or person rather than sharing opinions or arguments. When discussing solutions, again keep it focused on actions and policies. Be as specific as possible.
::And then later once I’ve written some more stuff I could provide some examples.
::Regarding sustainability, there is plenty of politics to discuss as governments and those in power have a much larger responsibility and impact to implement solutions than what individuals can accomplish, and it must be done urgently considering the stage we are at in climate change and society.
::By only focusing on solutions for individuals to work on rather than systemic change, it leads to a situation where meaningful progress is not accomplished and individuals are blamed for not making lifestyle changes when they did not have the ability to do so due to economic conditions they had no control over, and the role and responsibility of corporations and government regarding sustainability is ignored. Years from now when the world is in a much worse place environmentally I have no doubt historians will look back and be disappointed we avoided discussing the realistic solutions necessary to achieve sustainability because people believed there wasn’t much politics to discuss. In addition, sustainability can not be achieved without the full equality, participation, and opportunity of women and the working class.
::I was interested in a clear invitation to work on goals 1, 5, and 16 as well as sample topics as there have been many times I have encountered people in the nonprofit realm who spoke politely to keep up reputation and appearances and had no problem undermining the work of both volunteers and employees in their organization, as it is a common symptom of the non-profit industrial complex. If you do not know sample topics off the top of your head I could share some sample topics and you can let me know if it’s something that is in line with the vision of the site. [[User:Star|Star]] ([[User talk:Star|talk]]) 05:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
:::Hi, @[[User:Star|Star]], I'm not involved with the board but hope you don't mind if I throw in my 2p's worth.
:::Although you mention individuals, governments and those in power and systemic change, I'm missing any sense that you see value in the power of, and agency of community action? From my perspective, and many across networks I'm involved with: UK, but also Europe and majority world, seen as very different from "the non-profit industrial complex", or "nonprofit realm", being often networks or loose affiliations rather than organisations, and often hugely under-resourced, in conventional terms compared to the three other 'sectors'.
:::I set up CASwiki some 19 yrs ago as an attempt to shift the balance even if just a tiny bit. CASwiki is a wiki within a wiki here on Appropedia. So for example [[Community action|CASwiki]] has a page on '[[Social inclusion]]', which as the intro points out straightaway "used here includes economic inclusion or fairness", and includes just the bare beginnings of some suggested Community Action Projects.
:::As you mention participation, an issue with the SDGs is the extent to which there was pluralistic enough participation in their design. So they might be seen as more of an institutional agenda rather than a peoples agenda. A peoples agenda might have preferred to name SGD16, as peace, justice and strong communities, for example. Best wishes [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 12:37, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
::::I do believe community action is important. I have tried and been unable to gain traction for multiple community action projects in my area so I understand being under-resourced first-hand. Even though I am no longer doing work in that area I have interest in sharing resources for those that do have interest, including personalized community action project ideas and referrals to existing projects specific to each SDG, especially since a big struggle regarding being under resourced is poor advertizing, as people who want to help rarely reach organizations designed to do so. Thank you for sharing CASwiki, it looks closer to the type of work I am interested in.
::::A people's agenda would have preferred tangible action opposed to hyper-focusing on language, doing the later is one of the manifestations of the non-profit industrial complex, as well as one of the key points in the CIA's Simple Sabotoge Field Manual, A Timeless Guide to Subverting Any Organization with "Purposeful Stupidity" (1944).
::::Out of the over 160 SDG sub-goals, many address strong communities so arguing that a word in a title should have been changed is a waste of time. Any additional language that does not meet standards of perfection is canceled by the basic and specific concepts of human rights and sustainability.
::::Again, I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16, with information on systemic change and what organizations and individuals can do. Please let me know what the boundaries are regarding topics and political information. I would also love to discuss the boundaries of CASwiki regarding where information should be added directly versus linked. Thank you. [[User:Star|Star]] ([[User talk:Star|talk]]) 02:22, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
:::::Hi, @[[User:Star|Star]], it's interesting how language can sometimes perhaps, even if inadvertently, divide. For example I don't think I'm understanding your use of the word 'advertising'? But I'm still inclined to think strong communities have a role to play in helping people who want to help find the opportunities to do so, especially when at least some of them might exist within the agency of the community itself.
:::::Of course many of us might wish for "tangible action", but if you're suggesting that that and a concern for language are mutually exclusive, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I do think wording and language is important because of the way it affects the distribution of resources and so either reinforces or challenges existing power imbalances.
:::::Talking of manifestations, surely one of the biggest wins for the beneficiaries of existing power imbalances, is when any of us chooses to give our emotional energy to that which might divide us rather than that which we have in common? Of course there's no attachment to the idea of perfection in language, and we need to feel free to challenge each other from time to time, but we can do so in ways which feel respectful to both parties however much we may have an attachment to the idea of plain speaking.
:::::That's enough for one post. How are we doing with regard to the above? Any problems with any of that? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 11:16, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
::::::The reply button is being buggy. This is Star. I was not suggesting that tangible action and language is mutually exclusive, but rather that you focus on it in a manner that resembles the sabotage of tangible action. 
::::::I have a problem with the fact that you doubled down on your hyperfocus of the title instead of asking which of the over 160 SDG goals relate to community action or doing the research yourself. I do have a problem with the fact that you did not respond to my request for informational boundaries regarding political information and where information would be best located, which I have asked for three times at this point. 
::::::Division is a very small win for existing power imbalances in comparison to neglect. I am bothered that this site has existed for as long as it has, yet is so undeveloped. Considering how many people care deeply about sustainability, it is strange to me how empty this site appears. If someone could please explain that, it would help a lot. I feel like respect is an arbitrary cultural standard that is often at odds with both what is morally right and the dismantling of power imbalances. Regarding both parties feeling respected, I feel disrespected that this planet is dying, as well as millions of people, this sustainability project has significant portions of undeveloped content, and you are asking me to agree with your criticism of a title of a work of which you have not analyzed the contents. {{Unsigned|Star|19:00, 13 May 2023}}


Perhaps this info could be moved to [[Help:Contents]] where needed, and the default page could just have the suggestion "<nowiki><!-- For help, click "Editing help" below this edit box. --></nowiki>" --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 18:46, 18 October 2006
== Possible development of event templates ==


:I did shrink the preload text somewhat, and am open to additional shrinkage...  Actually, feedback generally about the current "create new page" arrangement is welcome.  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 22:48, 21 October 2006 (PDT)
Hi {{@|Sophivorus}}, I've been thinking about how to make more and better use of the event templates: [[Template:Event]] and [[Template:Eventlist]]. The basic design seems to work quite well, but it'd be cool to be able to display an area's events within a context of events for other areas, (Cosmolocal calendars?).


::Hmm... actually I'm still inclined to keep it as simple as possible, only adding one to three lines, e.g. a predetermined category and little if anything else. We have ways of keeping an eye on [[uncategorized pages]], so I'd be inclined to rely on that for pages that miss out on cats when created.  
A simple example / mock up here [[User:Philralph/sandbox]] displays the local (only) dates in bold (in this case the UK). More complex examples would include a city plus national plus international events. The display on [[Community action London]] currently is of one London event, plus other UK events. I'd guess up to 5 areas (displayed) would allow a lot of flexibility, so for example a local area, it's city, region, country and international, but also the possibility of a local area and up to 4 other neighbouring or nearby communities.


::But it occurs to me that we each have ideas on what is most user-friendly, but I can't say for sure that I'm right. What we really need is some real-world testing with people who don't know wikis. I'll try and get Michelle to sit at the computer and try to create a page. (Michelle is the gender and development person I've mentioned by email.) --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 16:11, 12 November 2006 (PST)
Then there'd be a need to identify/display the different locations in a combined list, maybe something like
:::Be bold :-)  Shrink them more if you prefer...  Be great if we can get some feedback!  We ask, but...  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 14:59, 21 November 2006 (PST)


== Server performance took a dive? ==
* Local event (dates in bold)
Most of Sunday (Pacific time) Appropedia's server seemed to be extremely sluggish.  I can imagine a couple of possible explanations.
* City event, (London)
#We're getting so much traffic that the server is struggling.  Solution: upgrade server (that would be great!)
* National event (UK)
#I noticed a bunch of image uploads.  Have we exceeded some threshold for storage or other resource that's causing a problem?
* (all others) International days, etc.
#It has nothing to do with Appropedia, but instead the issue is some other application that we are sharing the server with is becoming a resource hog, in which case, the other application needs to get it's own server.


Anyway, if this persists I would say it's definitely not acceptable. What metrics / diagnostic tools are available? What options are there? --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 21:30, 22 October 2006 (PDT)
I'm only just starting on this, so might not be able to test things out very much for a while. Probably test out event listings for near me to start with. And/or have the context/other areas display switchable, on or off? What do you think? Cheers, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 07:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)


==Categorization change==
:Hi {{@|Sophivorus}}, I'm now preferring a much clearer design using existing templates, so nothing further needed, thanks. Examples at [[Malling community action#Events|Malling]], [[Community action London#Events|London]] and [[Community action UK#Events|UK]], [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 08:03, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
I notice that both "Photovoltaic" and "Renewable Energy" are listed as fundamental categories.
::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! It looks super neat, good solution! I'm glad you managed it, and sorry I wasn't able to help on time. Let me know of any further issues or requests and I'll try to do better, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 11:59, 13 September 2023 (UTC)


First, I think that "Photovoltaic" is a "Renewable Energy" source...and then I think that Renewable Energy should be categorized as a "Topic", like most other technology categories are.  There, I've given notice, so now I'll be bold and go make the changes.  But now you know where my head was :-)  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 14:58, 21 November 2006 (PST)
== help has been destroyed ==
==Two suggestions for navigation bar==
First suggestion: I've noticed the development of a variety of fairly cool stuff for users.  I'm thinking of both the "Employment opportunity" stuff, as well as User Templates.  It occurs to me to promote these resources by adding a "Resources" (or possibly "User resources") bullet to the "community" section of the nav bar.  This suggests creating a high level category:resources, which does not yet exist, but this is, of course, a minor thing.  What say y'all?


:Sounds great - [[:Category:Internet resources]] would fit there as well. --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 15:32, 13 December 2006 (PST)
Please reinstate the help pages so they can be directly linked to the menu on the left - [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 13:56, 14 December 2023 (UTC)


Second suggestion: I've been pondering the idea of separating out the Topics bullet and expanding it to a Topics section in the nav bar, where the prominent topics would appear as bullets.  I'm thinking of Water, Solar, Wind, Construction (or whatever).  What I notice is that Projects, Programs, How-Tos, Theses are all ''types'' of content, that could all be about different topics, so that most articles will have a particular type, and a particular topic.  Another way to think of it is that the Topic category tree seems a lot "taller" (many topic layers) versus Project or Program, etc.  Again, what say?
:@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hi! Do you mean linking to [[Help:Contents]] like before, rather than [[:Category:Appropedia help]]? I just changed it back, check it out and let me know if it's ok now, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:06, 14 December 2023 (UTC)


Both of these suggestions are mean to encourage visitors to probe around within Appropedia...  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 14:21, 7 December 2006 (PST)
== Search non functional? ==


:I like the idea of topics in the toolbar - I'd guess people are more likely to be drawn to topics than to page types, though maybe that's just me. It might be good to have an additional link such as "more" or "browse" (all categories), to make it clear that Appropedia is not restricted to those topics. Though hopefully the topics would be quite all-encompassing. --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 15:32, 13 December 2006 (PST)
"An error has occurred while searching: We could not complete your search due to a temporary problem. Please try again later."


== Server performance? ==
Hello, does anyone know why I'm getting this message? Thanks, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 11:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)


I've noticed pages loading slowly recently, especially about 30 minutes ago, or less. Now it seems very fast again, though. (Other sites I checked seemed fast when Appropedia was slow,so I don't think it was a problem at my end.) --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 15:34, 13 December 2006 (PST)
:Me, too. Several days with Search Function not working, and this is interfering with my ability to work on several additions to pages I am working on. I have sent emails multiple times, but still zero response. What is happening? Is there any way that users can help to resolve this issue/problem? [[User:TomStanton|TomStanton]] ([[User talk:TomStanton|talk]]) 17:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
::You can try searching with a search engine of your choice like so: appropedia + (page name).
::Just a temporary workaround of course. Hope someone can fix this, thank you [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 17:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
:::Thank you for that idea about how to use other search engines. In the meantime, no sooner did I indicate the problem was continuing, and it seems to have fixed itself. Thank you to whomever made this work again. [[User:TomStanton|TomStanton]] ([[User talk:TomStanton|talk]]) 18:12, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
::::Hello! Thank you Tom and Moribund for your alert and attention to this. We think it has been resolved and our backend crew is keeping their eyes on it. With appreciation to you for this and your years of engagement and impact! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 23:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
:::::Also thank you @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]]! [[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 23:29, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
:::::Thanks, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 12:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)


== Attribution ==
== addition of links to youtube videos advertising paid courses ==


I'm unclear on how attribution works. E.g. if GFDL material on one of our [[port|ported pages]] is copied to Wikipedia, how exactly is that attributed? Is an edit comment for the edit history sufficient, or is more needed? --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 17:55, 13 December 2006 (PST)
Hello, just wanted to ask if these kind of contributions: [[Special:Contributions/27.99.93.37]] are welcome or not? Thank you


:I got the following response from [[w:User:Angela|Angela]] at [[wikia:howto:Talk:Main Page]] --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 00:45, 25 December 2006 (PST):
I already removed one such link from [[forest gardening]], because I watched the video and it was not really connected with the topic. Overall, the link seemed to be advertising in nature and did not add anything to the article, so I decided to remove it. Thoughts? [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 08:33, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
::<tt>The template at [[Wikia:Template:Wikipedia]] can be adapted to give attribution. See [[Wikipedia:Project:Copyrights]] for more information. [[w:User:Angela|Angela]] <sup>[[W:User talk:Angela|talk]]</sup> 21:25, 24 December 2006 (UTC)</tt>


== Washing and drying clothes category ==
:@[[User:Moribund|Moribund]] Looking lightly at the user contributions, I think they are sparse and varied enough to be acceptable. However, regarding the particular link and page you mention, since you're the main author and you actually watched the video and considered it not relevant, I support your removal 100%. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 19:07, 22 January 2024 (UTC)


I would like to move [[:Category:Washing]] to [[:Category:Washing and drying clothes]], putting the material from [[Washing and drying clothes]] on that page. Any objections? --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 02:23, 5 January 2007 (PST)
== Lots of video embeds not showing ==
:Two thoughts...  1) Be bold.  2) Isn't "laundry" the common English word for "washing and drying clothes"?  The tentative category naming policy would argue for the simpler and more inclusive term.  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 12:12, 23 January 2007 (PST)


Hello! Help solve the problem.  
Hi all, think I've been seeing this for a little while now. Some videos look fine, others not showing (?) examples at [[Scotland community action]], [[Reduce, reuse, repair and recycle UK]], [[India community action]]. Thanks for any help with this, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 17:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Very often try to enter the forum, but says that the password is not correct.  
Regrettably use of remembering. Give like to be?
Thank you!


==Unsigned Complement==
:@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! The issue was due to a change I had to do to [[Template:Video]]. Apologies, I just fixed it, though it may take a few hours to propagate through the entire site. Thanks for the report! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 19:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)


Nor can Mehtap! I want to say that your site better throughout the World Wide Web :)
== Distorted Excerpts ==
Thank you. Keep it. {{Unsigned2|13:57, 8 May 2007 (PST)| 89.149.202.65}}
:Thank you, glad you think so.  --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 23:50, 8 May 2007 (PDT)


==Community portal & Village pump removed from sidebar?==
Is there a way to include all of the Excerpt section from another page without having it summarized and shrunk? -- [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 20:09, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
I've never paid much attention to the sidebar, but I've just realized that neither the the [[A:CP|Community portal]] & [[A:VP|Village pump]] are linked from there. On the text of the main page, the community portal is linked once, through a piped link. Is this deliberate, or an oversight? --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 19:43, 11 January 2007 (PST)
:Actually, both of those are in the side bar, they're just disguised. Maybe that was a bad idea?  Anyway, "Help Out" is a link to the Community portal, and "Ask Questions" is a link to Village pump. --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 12:08, 23 January 2007 (PST)
::Ah, okay. I don't like disguising links too much, as it's less obvious for someone who has an idea of what they're looking for, and it's harder to remember a pagename if it's called something different where it's linked from. I've changed them to display as "Community portal" and "Village pump" - what do you think? It would be good to have a more specific "help out" page to link to as well (I suspect we have one, but don't have time to look right now...) --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 22:20, 29 January 2007 (PST)


==[http://www.howtopedia.org/ Howtopedia]==
:@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hi! Do you mean without the surrounding card? If so, then I just added a parameter <code>card</code> to [[Template:Excerpt]] that, when set to <code>card=no</code>, will hide the card. Will this do? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 20:28, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
What to think? Why no integrated action with the people from the ITDG? Do they plan to do things different? Should stuff from Appropedia also immediately be ported to Howtopedia? Is it going to help to have two platforms for the same purpose?
::Yes that works - thanks! [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 14:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)


Reinder Demotech Januari 23
== My cel not open with any network bicuse is pta cod problem i m forner then come back in her pakistan plz have any idia plz send me or help me ==


Pls solve my cel network sim manigmint bicuse i m open any id for gmail but not conect id plz [[User:Mohsin Elahi|Mohsin Elahi]] ([[User talk:Mohsin Elahi|talk]]) 12:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)


Hello Reinder,
:Anyone understands this? It seems like a bug report? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:48, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
I already asked the same question at lonny's talkpage and got an answer...
:@[[User:Mohsin Elahi|Mohsin Elahi]] Can you use https://translate.google.com to translate your message? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
see http://appropedia.org/User_talk:Lonny#message_from_anna
:Hi, can you explain what the specific problem is? Thanks! [[User:Emilio|Emilio]] ([[User talk:Emilio|talk]]) 17:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
See you on friday. greetings, --[[User:Demotech (anna)|Demotech (anna)]] 05:59, 23 January 2007 (PST)


:I didn't see a response from Lonny, but Appropedia is definitely working with ITDG (except that they now use "Practical Action" for their name).  They have given permission to us for porting all their technical briefs.  They told me about Howtopedia as well, so I asked Howtopedia if they would like to work together, but they were not interested at the time (perhaps 8 weeks ago?).  Unfortunately.  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 23:51, 25 January 2007 (PST)
== videos in gallery ==


==Main Page tests==
Is it possible to do videos in a gallery? [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 18:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
In preparation for some advertising, I've created a new, cleaner version of the main page at [[Main Page tests]].  Not quite ready for prime time, since I have links to our [[Appropedia:Mission]] page which could use a refresh, and to [[Help:Contributing content]] which doesn't exist as I type this but which I expect to hold some of the "contributor" stuff on the current main page.


I've also created a page on "Appropedia growth", which is currently in my namespace at [[User talk:Curtbeckmann/Appropedia growth coordination]].  I created a new mission and vision statement, plus listed several other things around growth.  I'd like to get aggressive on certain initiatives to prepare for the Google Ad Blitz (okay, the cautious, $5 ad campaign). Next step after that will be defining the NGO partnership program. After speaking with the AIDG chairman, the question is not "if", but "what does it look like"!
:@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hmm, do you mean having [[Template:Video]] inside a <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> tag? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 18:27, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
::Yes - or some other way to use the template video to get lots of videos clumped together instead of one at a time vertically - [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 20:08, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
:::@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] No current way to do that, I'm afraid. However, I have an idea. I'll implement it next week and let you know! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 20:16, 2 February 2024 (UTC)


Oh... And I sent the non-profit bylaws to Lonny for his entertainment. --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 23:51, 25 January 2007 (PST)
@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hi! How about using [[Template:Video]] inside a <nowiki><div class="grid"></nowiki>, like so:


== Should we group countries by region? ==
<div class="grid">


I created [[:Category:Latin America]] as a subcat of [[:Category:Countries]], to start grouping countries. Now I see that this suggests we have regional groupings for all countries. And regions are fuzzy sometimes, for border countries, so that will create more work...
{{Video|PsP5IJT77fU}}


Another idea that occurs to me know is to continue to put every country into the "Countries" cat, but also have a "Countries by region" category, for those that have been grouped. These regions could also be linked under "See also" on the [[:Category:Countries]] page. That's my favored approach, but just thought I'd flag it before I do it. --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 22:27, 29 January 2007 (PST)
{{Video|v5CdNH3sQT0}}


== Confused by sections/subsections in agriculture ==
{{Video|bPoOvy3elD8}}


I think the agriculture section needs a bit of a rejig. There is too much content at the top level and also some overlap between articles in the category and subcategory level. I've put my suggestion here [[:Category talk:Agriculture]] for improving. [[User:Cgfoz|Cgfoz]] 15:35, 31 January 2007 (PST)
{{Video|WrSyqGBL5a4}}
:Thank you so much for your comments.  I am glad to see that they are being addressed at [[:Category talk:Agriculture]]. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 09:23, 6 February 2007 (PST)


== Suggest restoring "Public health" category ==
{{Video|8CLRTa_ocmo}}


Public health is a widely used term (e.g. international public health; public health engineering; Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health) and makes a natural category - I believe [[:Category:Public health]] should be restored/reverted, either replacing [[:Category:Health and safety]] (sort of, with a couple of articles falling out) or made a subcategory of it. Any objections? --[[User:Singkong2005|Singkong2005]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Singkong2005|talk]]</small> 21:44, 10 February 2007 (PST)
{{Video|431803145}}
:I'm a fan of making Public Health a subcategory.  I considered that, but wasn't sure if it might be better to elevate every member of "Public health" to the higher category.  Anyway, I certainly have no objections to creating a public health subcategory.  I prefer the largest category at the top, and I think "Health and safety" is a fair bit larger than "Public health".  Public health is, after all, a slightly narrrower topic than "Health" generally, and does not clearly include Public safety concepts.  --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 07:59, 11 February 2007 (PST)


== Who works with Afro-Latino communities?  ==
</div>


Query from [http://community.livejournal.com/int_development/18409.html nokturnalplay at the int_development community on LJ] - can someone give advice?
Because all YouTube and Vimeo videos have the same aspect ratio, it looks pretty good. However if you start adding meta data or combining it with images, it may start looking a bit funny:
:<tt>Do anyone know of organizations that work with developing Afro-Latino communities? I'm interested in going into international development and my region of choice is the Afro-Latino community, especially Colombia. </tt>
--[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]</small> 18:25, 13 February 2007 (PST)


== Majority world ==
<div class="grid">


I always feel uncomfortable using phrases like "developing world" or "less developed countries" (LDC), or "third world." The first is a euphemism (they are not necessarily developing); they second is more accurate but more awkward, and feels quite dry or clinical; and using ''{{WP|third world}}'' is likely to get one in trouble with those who point out that the historical meaning of the term, during the cold war, referred to the first world (the West) or the second world (communist countries). Should we encourage the use of a particular term? If so, which one?
{{Video|PsP5IJT77fU}}


How about "'''majority world'''"? I came across it in the New Internationalist magazine - while I find NI is not to my taste (advocating lefty positions rather than starting with intelligent questioning and analysis) I do like the way majority world reminds us of how the world is constituted.
{{Video|v5CdNH3sQT0}}


[[Wikipedia:Third World]] states ''Terms such as Global South, developing countries, less economically developed countries (LEDC), least developed countries and the Majority World have become more popular in circles where the term "third world" is regarded to have derogatory or out-of-date connotations.''
[[File:Appropedia.jpg|thumb|none|Appropedia, the sustainability wiki]]


Of these, the only other term which rolls off the tongue easily is "{{WP|Global South}}" (which redirects to Third World). However, I find the North-South thing also euphemistic and not very accurate - especially speaking as an Australian.
{{Video|WrSyqGBL5a4}}


Notes on common usage:
{{Video|8CLRTa_ocmo}}
*In Wikipedia, {{WP|Majority world}} redirects to Third World.
*the google count is tiny compared to other terms, especially "third world." Try [[google:Third World]], [[google:Global South]], [[google:developing countries]], [[google:less economically developed countries]], [[google:least developed countries and [[google:Majority World]].
*People are more likely to search in Google through with a common term like "Third World" - so we may show up better with that term. Is there anything we can do to minimize this effect?
:*Lots of redirects wherever a title includes one of the above phrases?
:*An explanatory template placed on the bottom of relevant pages (which is to say, on a very large number of pages), saying that we use "Majority World" in preference to "Third World" and "Global South" (while also trying not to make a big deal of it)?


Whatever we choose to do, an article on the issue is certainly warranted, perhaps at [[Majority World]]. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]</small> 18:11, 25 February 2007 (PST)
{{Video
| 431803145
| align = center
| title = The Walking Fish
| description = A tragicomic short film about ambition, perfection and self-acceptance.
| keywords = ambition, perfection, self-acceptance, fish
| authors = Thessa Meijer
| date = 2020-07-05
| location = Netherlands
| language = es
| license = CC-BY-SA-4.0
| annotations =


== State makes big fuss over local couple's vegetable oil car fuel  ==
* 00:00 Start
* 00:10 Tenth second
* 01:00 Minute mark


This is insane.
}}


*http://techdirt.com/articles/20070307/133704.shtml
</div>
*http://www.herald-review.com/articles/2007/03/01/news/local_news/1021491.txt


Could someone please make an article about the situation in the story? I'm too pissed off by the story to do it myself.
What do you think? Does this solution serve your needs? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)


[[User:Baron|Baron]] 12:33, 8 March 2007 (PST)
:Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] & @[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]], sorry to interrupt, just wanted to say this looks really useful for many CASwiki pages. Thanks for this! Firstly just for more efficient display of a small set of videos, see [[Visions#Video]]. But perhaps much more importantly if one wants to hint at networking or timeline opportunities, see for example [[Scotland CAN/video]], subpage of a potentially collaborative mapping page. Is there any technical reason to suggest max number of videos per gallery or page? From a users point of view I'm guessing over 12 - 15 begins to look overfacing. What do you think? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 08:42, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi, glad you find it useful! From a technical point of view, the only thing to consider is that each video requires an extra web request to YouTube in order to get the thumbnail image. Also, remember that in mobile devices, videos won't show in a grid but sequentially. Thus, from a user perspective, I think 6-9 should be enough and 12-15 is a bit borderline. But I'll let you decide that. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)


:I've heard of such things happening in the UK (probably the case mentioned in the first link) and maybe Spain, when quite a few people started using new veg oil from a supermarket - it was said you could only spot the "offending" cars because they smelt pleasantly like a fish and chip shop. People had to fill out heaps of paperwork and pay tax for
== Unfortunate top of page display on some pages ==


:An article is a great idea - where to publish? Submit it everywhere perhaps? WikiNews is another option, but I think that's news rather than commentary, so that would have to be fairly straight reporting.  
This looks perhaps like a recent change to how 'thumb' (or image placement?) works for images (?) Some pages largely unaffected eg [[China community action]], but on others an expanded image frame, which looks odd in itself displaces the more interesting and dynamic content that should be at the top of the page eg [[China news]]. This also has a knock on effect of making page previews far less effective. Not sure how widespread this problem is, just seen on a few pages. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:53, 28 February 2024 (UTC)


:I've got a lot on my plate but would gladly lend a hand. What about you make a start on an article on Appropedia, e.g. at [[Biofuel Wetzels deserve medals, not threats and red tape]]. (We can always change the name later).
:@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! Thanks for finding and reporting this bug, it's due to some changes I did to image styling. I'll fix it in the next hour, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 16:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi again, fixed! Please do a hard refresh (shift+ctrl+R) to clear your browser CSS and let me know of any more issues, thanks! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
:::Hi [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], an outstanding issue seems to be that in a lot of cases the page preview includes first the image text, which displaces the intended top of the page text such as news items, examples: [[China news]], [[Community action London]], [[El Salvador community action]]. Thanks, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 12:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! I just changed the config of [[mw:Extension:TextExtracts]] so that image captions are excluded. The issue should be fixed now, but it may take a few hours or days to get through the various caches. Thanks for the report! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 21:43, 18 March 2024 (UTC)


:Also ask at [[wikia:sca21]]. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]</small> 20:21, 8 March 2007 (PST)
== Open source ecology ==


== Plural/singular titles in main space ==
Found the above website today [https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page]


Our topic pages are now mostly categories, but there are a few pages that for whatever reason seem best in main space. I don't know if I'm thinking wrongly here. For example [[Developing country]] which seems problematic as a category, as it would lead to trying to decide which country is in which category... which would distract from important matters.
seems broadly similar to appropedia. Perhaps those editors will want to cooperate ? [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 15:25, 29 February 2024 (UTC)


If we do have topic-related pages in main space, I'm now thinking that plural feels more natural, as it's consistent with most of the topics; also the nature of the articles are different from Wikipedia (with its singular title policy) and my gut feeling is that plural works better. Sorry if that's vague and contradicts my original position... --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]</small> 03:11, 18 March 2007 (PDT)
:@[[User:Moribund|Moribund]] Hi! As you're probably aware, Appropedia has a long history of merging with other sites and wikis. I'd be happy to help with the migration of content and fulfilling any special technical requirements they may have, but I'm not confident in reaching out to them with a proposal (or whatever is the best way to proceed). [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)


==Category tool==
== Is 4LR44 battery same as 4 lr44 stack together? ==
Hi all.  I just learned that one of the pywikipedia python scripts, [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category.py category.py], is able to generate a nice category tree, using the "tree" option.  (You can add, remove, move also.)  This may be useful for various maintenance tasks.  Example wikitext output was inserted below:


(begin insert)
The batteries are not a perfect fit because they require a nipple on the positive contact. Despite this, I managed to make them work using a piece of foil and some inexpensive LR44s on my SQ-A camera. However, the low-capacity cheap batteries drained quickly, failing to meet my needs. While using alternative batteries won't harm the camera, it's not an ideal solution. I recommend using Energizer 4LR44s if possible, as they have proven to last through numerous shoots with my SQ-A camera. [[Special:Contributions/104.194.79.40|104.194.79.40]] 06:50, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
 
[[:Category:Food and drink|Food and drink]] (69) (also in [[:Category:Fundamental|Fundamental]])
#[[:Category:Agriculture|Agriculture]] (119) (also in [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]])
##[[:Category:Agricultural subsidies|Agricultural subsidies]] (0) (also in [[:Category:Subsidies and grants|Subsidies and grants]])
##[[:Category:Animal husbandry|Animal husbandry]] (5)
###[[:Category:Fish farming|Fish farming]] (2)
###[[:Category:Livestock|Livestock]] (25)
##[[:Category:Composting|Composting]] (8) (also in [[:Category:Construction and materials|Construction and materials]], [[:Category:Waste management|Waste management]])
###[[:Category:Composting toilets|Composting toilets]] (6) (also in [[:Category:Sanitation|Sanitation]], [[:Category:Water conservation|Water conservation]])
##[[:Category:Food crops|Food crops]] (58)
##[[:Category:Greenhouses|Greenhouses]] (5) (also in [[:Category:Alternative building|Alternative building]], [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]])
##[[:Category:Nonfood crops|Nonfood crops]] (1)
##[[:Category:Organic farming|Organic farming]] (4)
##[[:Category:Uncommon Tropical Crops|Uncommon Tropical Crops]] (3)
##[[:Category:Urban agriculture|Urban agriculture]] (0) (also in [[:Category:Cities|Cities]], [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]])
##[[:Category:Vermiculture|Vermiculture]] (4) (also in [[:Category:Pages needing a topic expert|Pages needing a topic expert]], [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]], [[:Category:Waste management|Waste management]])
#[[:Category:Food preparation|Food preparation]] (2) (also in [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]])
##[[:Category:Cookers|Cookers]] (1) (also in [[:Category:Pages needing attention|Pages needing attention]], [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]], [[:Category:Suggested projects|Suggested projects]])
###[[:Category:Improved cook stoves|Improved cook stoves]] (3) (also in [[:Category:Pages needing attention|Pages needing attention]], [[:Category:Public health|Public health]], [[:Category:Suggested projects|Suggested projects]])
###[[:Category:Solar cooking|Solar cooking]] (1) (also in [[:Category:Pages needing a topic expert|Pages needing a topic expert]], [[:Category:Solar|Solar]], [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]])
#[[:Category:Food preserving|Food preserving]] (4) (also in [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]])
##[[:Category:Refrigeration|Refrigeration]] (2) (also in [[:Category:Health infrastructure|Health infrastructure]], [[:Category:Heat|Heat]])
###[[:Category:Sun Frost|Sun Frost]] (1) (also in [[:Category:Energy efficiency|Energy efficiency]], [[:Category:Organizations|Organizations]])
##[[:Category:Solar dehydrating|Solar dehydrating]] (2) (also in [[:Category:Pages needing a topic expert|Pages needing a topic expert]], [[:Category:Solar|Solar]], [[:Category:Stubs|Stubs]])
#[[:Category:Vegetarianism and veganism|Vegetarianism and veganism]] (0)
 
(end of inserted text)
The above output was generated by/on: --[[User:Curtbeckmann|CurtB]] 21:03, 19 March 2007 (PDT)
 
== Promote feed-back from user to designer ==
 
Hello!
 
Please help me out! The original, self-made/designed/originated material I contribute to society through the website of my foundation Demotech (www.demotech.org) is also ported by Appropedia. This I highly value for two reasons:
*Outgoing: <br/>
To be among the mind stuff of people with a similar mindset, to have an opportunity to be inspired, to learn in general
*Incoming: <br/>
To create the opportunity for feed back from users. This world needs rapid development of any item of Appropriate Technology. Without a mechanism of DIRECT and EFFECTIVE feedback from users on content such as what Demotech offers, further development of this content may stagnate. However, when feedback opportunities are provided this development may soar!
 
For this reason the sole condition for use of Demotech designs is to provide a link back to its origin attached to the information from Demotech. And please, let this link not only contain name and (web)-address of the author, but also a few lines that the author expects explicit and detailed feedback as a rightful reward for its otherwise freely to be used contribution.<br/>
As I looked at Creative Commons Licenses, I found the license 'Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0' that seemed somehow to answer what I look for. However not with the specific request condition as named. <br/>
I fully realize this condition can not be enforced in practice. Similar as the condition to pay for 'share ware'. But non the less it should be a condition that remains attached to the content as it spreads.
 
Three questions:
*Is the  'Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0' -license endorsed by Appropedia?
*Where can I find earlier discussions on the topic of feed back on behalf of continuous development?
*Where is info to be found on how design-communities may best originate and function on Internet?
 
Thanks for a rapid response!<br/>
Reinder/Demotech
 
:Hi Reinder,
:Thank you for your comments.  I have addressed some of your feedback request comments.  I have updated the {{Tl:Demotechpage}} template and the [[Demotech]] page to more directly attribute content and request explicit feedback.  I have also tried to make sure that this template shows up on all Demotech pages, and have posted instructions on the [[Demotech]] page itself.  Please let me know what you think. 
:As I noted on my talk page, here is some information regarding licensing on Appropedia-
:Appropedia uses the [[Appropedia:Copyrights|GNU-FDL license]]. Here are our conversations on the topic of license - [[Appropedia_talk:Copyrights]].  Please feel free to add your comments there, where a more focused group can respond.
:We have been working on ways to increase the quantity and critical thought behind feedback at Appropedia.  to address the quantity of feedback, we have been actively promoting Appropedia to good success.  We have been growing quite quickly and can feel critical mass building, especially with the fairly recent additions of wikigreen and VillageEarth.  On the quality of feedback issues, we have been having some energized discussions with a larger team.  This discussion will be made public as soon as we decide upon a forum software (Drupal vs phpBB).  I really look forward to your input on this matter, as you clearly have experience with the need for feedback on your projects.
:Hopefully I have addressed some of your questions.  Anyone else have thoughts on this? --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]]
 
== Articles on people ==
 
[[Sarah Brunner]] has been created. Should we suggest moving it to user space? (It appears to have been created by a business partner, so maybe that doesn't work). Or, how should we categorize it...? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]</small> 00:56, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
:I think that the [[Sarah Brunner]] page would better fit as a heading on the [[Wild Chick Farm]] page.  I have left comments at [[Talk:Wild Chick Farm]] to that effect.  I will monitor the progress as this was a Engr305 project.  Thank you, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 10:11, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
17 April 2007 (PDT)
:I did this, sort of fumbling along trying to move a page.  Any suggestions? Thanks--[[careysmith]]
 
== Porting help? ==
 
I dont even know if im asking in the right area.  Please excuse my ignorance. -Carey
 
:See [[Talk:Wild_Chick_Farm#Some_Changes]] for some help. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 14:00, 17 April 2007 (PDT)
 
== "Reducing oil dependency" category name? ==
 
What should the category name be for articles about oil dependency and reducing oil dependency, e.g. [[Transition towns]]?
 
[[Peak oil]] is a bit controversial so I'd rather avoid it. Also, we can believe in reducing oil dependency even if we don't accept that peak oil is imminent. (This is George Monbiot's position, and I'm inclined to agree.)
 
[[:Category:Reducing oil dependency]] is more accurate but awkward. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]</small> 17:41, 20 April 2007 (PDT)
 
== "Sub-sub categories for the sub-category Demotech ==
 
I would like to copy the category structure of my site http://www.demotech.org as it to found at http://www.demotech.org/d-design.php <br/>
In fact I consider to port the whole of the structure of the Demotech site to Appropedia to invite the cooperation that is up to now too limited. In this category structure I like to port an abstract of the content as it is to be found at the Demotech website. This regards an abstract of all of the design initiatives and all of the publications. I want to link all of these abstracts to the full original content at the Demotech site.
 
Next to that I want to link each of these design initiatives to a discussion page, thus creating a space that acts much like a forum, where each post is allocated next to the general info it is about.
 
In the Demotech web site there is, next to the main HTML part of each design initiative also a Wiki part. This Wiki part is meant for reporting on research done on this design initiative. I set it up to facilitate intern students and students doing their thesis. It is tested only with a few intern students. It worked fairly well: the general setup of the research fitted the work of the students well enough. See an example at: http://www.demotech.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Design/D53 <br/>
I hope to get comments on the idea to port this section to Appropedia and not to have it anymore in the Demotech site. Maybe not only for the Demotech design topics, but added to any topic in Appropedia that is suitable for it and needs to be researched on. Specially it is meant to assist teachers and students in the hope to involve world wide education in the research for appropriate solutions.
 
I look forward to get from the village pump inspiration and guidance.
Reinder, Demotech, design for self-reliance, 25 May, 2007
 
[--[[User:Demotech|Demotech]] 26 May 2007 (PDT)--]
:Hi Reinder,
:We are very excited by this proposal.  I am currently on my way to New York, and have very limited computer access for the next couple of days.  I greatly look forward to continuing this exciting conversation towards promoting wider cooperation.  --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 23:24, 25 May 2007 (PDT)
 
:Sounds good! I'm a little unclear on the details, but it seems we're agreed on the general direction and can start work on it. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]</small> 02:20, 26 May 2007 (PDT)
::Hi Reinder,
::See my response and questions at [[User talk:Demotech%2C design#Sub-sub categories for the sub-category Demotech]].
::Thank you, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 00:51, 1 June 2007 (PDT)
 
== Developments in networking ==
 
A couple of interesting developments in networking:
 
To help with inter-wiki networking, [[CentralWikia:Society Gardens|Society Gardens]] has been created on Wikia: This is a summary of active, established Wikia sites on serious topics (ie not entertainment or gaming).
 
To help with networking within a wiki, the CAN system (community and networking card), has been discussed at [[Wikia:Social|WikiSocial]], and is being tried out at [[Wikia:SCA21|Sustainable Community Action]]. See [[Wikia:SCA21:Help:Community and networking|Sustainable Community Action's community and networking card page]]. When I get a chance I'll look into this further. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] &middot; <small>[[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]</small> 09:00, 13 July 2007 (PDT)
 
== AT Theory and environmentalism  ==
 
Hey y'all. I haven't added much here, but I've been trawling for a while. I run another wiki - [http://wiki.envirowiki.info envirowiki.info] - on environmentalism and social justice (intended as a much more theory based wiki than this, I think).
 
I've been thinking, especially since doing a great course on technology and systems design last semester at Newcastle Uni, that appropedia could benefit from a theory category or portal, leading to pages about things like [[thermodynamics]], systematic design theory, [[ecology]], [[basic machines]], and how they relate to technology. This could be helpful in showing people how to create new AT, along side all the examples of existing AT.
 
Let me know what you think, in the mean time, I might start a few pages with the little I know about these fields. cheers. --[[User:Naught101|Naught101]] 01:59, 4 August 2007 (PDT)
:Hi Naught101,
:Great work at [http://wiki.envirowiki.info envirowiki.info]. We definitely want to help people create new AT. I say go for your additions and we will try to help along the way. I am excited to see your pages.  Thank you, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 10:05, 4 August 2007 (PDT)
::Started a page at [[Systematic design]], though like I said, I don't know that much about it really. It'd be good to get some more info. Added it to the [[:category:theory]], which doesn't exist yet, but there might be other pages already that could be added that that. I was thinking, why isn't there a page on [[appropriate technology]]? (that page redirects to here). It would be a good idea to have an introduction to theory page on it somewhere (maybe there already is?), could remove the redirect (my favourite), or have it at [[appropriate technology theory]], or [[introduction to appropriate technology]], what's best? Added a few links to my previous post. --[[User:Naught101|Naught101]] 04:30, 5 August 2007 (PDT)

Latest revision as of 06:50, 28 March 2024

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Software update[edit | edit source]

Ho ho ho, merry Green Christmas! Here's my present to you: I just finished updating MediaWiki (the software of Appropedia) from version 1.35 to 1.39 (that's why it's been down and unstable for two hours)! The new version is a Long Term Support version, which means it will be supported until November 2025! This will probably be the last (major) update until the next Long Term Support version (1.43) since it's usually not worth updating to the short term support versions (unless some specific feature we want requires it).

MediaWiki 1.39 brings several new features (plus those of MediaWiki 1.36, 1.37 and 1.38) but perhaps more importantly, it allowed to update all extensions to their latest versions, which also brings several new features.

That being said, there'll also be several new bugs around due to the updates. I'll be fixing them during the next few days, but do let me know if you notice any I might have missed. Thanks! Sophivorus (talk) 14:45, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, don't know if this is related, but something a little weird with news templates: on Community action UK#News and comment I added in two new items via News UK, and removed the UK location from 2 (older items) via News by UK location, both on Dec 15. For me the new items are showing, but also the two which no longer have the UK as a location (?) Thanks, Philralph (talk) 11:01, 19 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Tried again but a third instance, and one item coming up twice. Tried removing this item from News by UK location, but still displaying, if that helps? Have temporarily suspended Community action UK#News and comment, but you can see what the newslist template produces at User:Philralph/sandbox2, Philralph (talk) 10:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! This is probably an issue with outdated semantic data lingering in the database. I'll try to do a full refresh of the data this week, but let me know if it happens to fix itself before! Sophivorus (talk) 13:00, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Multiple listing of same items also found on Housing UK news, Scotland news, and Glasgow community action, plus maybe others not yet discovered? Philralph (talk) 12:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Finding others: Wales news, Barcelona news, California news, US news, Climate news all the examples from when a location removed or changed, Philralph (talk) 15:19, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! Sorry again for the delay but I think it's fixed now. Let me know of any more issues! Sophivorus (talk) 13:17, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus Fantastic! From a preliminary look all the 2022 stuff looks ok, just one item I tried for 2023: bottom of page on User:Philralph/sandbox2 and Extinction Rebellion is still repeating. Philralph (talk) 14:39, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hm, soon I'll have to regenerate the data again anyway, so it may fix that. Please let me know if more repetitions appear! Sophivorus (talk) 15:01, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, OK, thanks. I'm thinking it'd be good to set up the templates on 'main' pages ie Community action, Welcome to Appropedia and Community action UK using something that doesn't need updating. Are there 'magic words' which will produce / display current month and current year, and if poss limit display to max 5 items? Philralph (talk) 15:20, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi, definitely! I just added a 'limit' parameter to Template:Eventlist. Also check out the available magic words and see what I did here for an example. Let me know if I can be of any help! Sophivorus (talk) 12:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, Thanks, looks good. I'll have a play. Philralph (talk) 15:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, if Template:Newslist could include a 'limit' parameter, which would display the, e.g. 5, most recent items, that'd be perfect. Philralph (talk) 15:00, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Done! Sophivorus (talk) 15:18, 25 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi @Sophivorus, news and event templates seem to have been working as they should for a while now. Thanks for all your help with this. Just one more small thing. Could the 'More Results' button / link be taken off Community action and Community action UK? Thanks Philralph (talk) 09:14, 28 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! Glad it's working ok now. I just removed the "More results" button from both Template:Newslist and Template:Eventlist. Let me know of any more issues or requests! By the way, soon I'll do some updates to the semantic database so there may be a few hours with incomplete results until it finishes. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 12:23, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How to comment/respond, here?[edit | edit source]

Hi! How do I comment/respond to these conversations without editing the previous text? Thanks! StoriesWitha Will (talk) 22:43, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@StoriesWitha Will Hi! There used to be a handy Reply button next to each comment, but the recent software update caused a bug that prevents it from showing. :-( I just reported it here and will try to fix it asap. In the meantime, I'm afraid the only way to reply is to edit the page and manually add your comment after the one you want to reply to. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 12:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by StoriesWitha Will
@StoriesWitha Will I managed to fix it, but please let me know if you notice any bugs, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 19:37, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
False alarm, my "fix" caused crashes to non-logged in users so I had to revert. :-( Sophivorus (talk) 14:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@StoriesWitha Will Now yes, hopefully. Sophivorus (talk) 13:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Possible spam?[edit | edit source]

I've reverted a couple of recent edits from Special:Contributions/Strategicmarket, which looked to me like spam. Noticing a couple of others that someone else might like to review? Thanks Philralph (talk) 13:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Spam indeed. I just reverted the other edits and blocked the account. Sophivorus (talk) 15:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Automatic wikitext standardization[edit | edit source]

Hi! Today I finished developing and deploying the first version of mw:Extension:StandardWikitext, an extension that automatically fixes and standardizes wikitext when saving the page. This has several goals:

  • Fix and avoid messy wikitext
  • Fix and avoid some broken wikitext
  • Simplify regular expression search-and-replace
  • Eliminate OCD editing
  • Bring Appropedia up to a new level of excellence

This extension will silently make changes to the wikitext every time you save a page (in the main namespace), so you may be a bit surprised to see changes you didn't make when looking at your own diffs. However, they shouldn't be problematic or controversial, as I made a special effort to be conservative in the standardization rules and to thoroughly test them. Still, if you notice any bugs or issues, please let me know! Kind regards, Sophivorus (talk) 14:34, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, I'm trying to edit Community involvement UK news/2019 and Community involvement UK news/2011-2016 but keep getting message: "[ZAtEVnd7hAcFeH50tLBGAwAAAAQ] 2023-03-10 14:53:11: Fatal exception of type "Error"" (?)
@Philralph Sorry, fixed. Sophivorus (talk) 15:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Sophivorus, thanks, all seems fine now, Philralph (talk) 15:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Extension:Appropedia[edit | edit source]

Hi! Just wanted to announce that all JavaScript at MediaWiki:Common.js, all CSS at MediaWiki:Common.css, all PHP at LocalSettings.php, and more, has been moved to a custom extension hosted at Appropedia's GitHub repo. The reasons for the move are explained there. I've done a lot of testing and everything looks good to me but let me know if you notice any new bugs. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 13:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is awesome. Thanks so much! Does this mean that all changes to javascript or CSS have to be done at a different place? Emilio (talk) 15:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Emilio Yes, that's the one "downside" in my opinion: changes to JavaScript and CSS should be sent to the Appropedia extension (via a pull request or a direct edit at GitHub) and then "pulled" into Appropedia (by me or anyone with SSH access). However, this extra step also implies better code-review and accountability. Sophivorus (talk) 16:34, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Advocating more of a presence on, and involvement within and across Hylo[edit | edit source]

Hi @Kathy Nativi, @Emilio, @Sophivorus and @PedroK. I've recently been helping The Alternative Global Co-creators network set up groups on Hylo. Whilst looking around I saw the Appropedia group there, and noticed this was created around a year ago.

One of the reasons I advocated Hylo for The Alternative was that it might be described as a values aligned platform. But also looking around more recently I've been finding great discussions and perhaps a more impressive range of groups there. I've particularly enjoyed reading discussions to do with Bioregionalism, but also for example "How do we respond to / engage with ChatGPT?" I'd love to know what you guys think about this. Also do you know for example of any bioregional initiatives in the Majority World?

I notice the group is Public - Anyone can find and see this group & Open - Anyone who can see this group can join, so seems to me a good place to be sharing our news with a probably quite receptive audience? There were 4 members of the group so far, that's with hardly any content yet.

I'd be happy to maybe share some content to the Appropedia group if this would help? But kind of feel it'd be great to have your voices there, and across Hylo. Best wishes, Philralph (talk) 17:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More on Hylo's vision & plans for 2023: "Co-evolving technology and a culture of stewardship: Our plans for Hylo", Clare Politano, Nov 28, 2022, 7 min read, Philralph (talk) 07:11, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi @Philralph, Thanks. Here is there newest 2023 update - https://medium.com/terran-collective/together-we-flourish-celebrating-hylos-community-and-collaborations-in-2023-df88733109a7. I am excited to learn more about how they will self fund to maintain their project and hope ot check it out this year. Lonny (talk) 00:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Advice request re categories[edit | edit source]

Hi, I've recently setup a new portal page on CASwiki: Community action London (UK), and several spin off pages. It'd be nice to include a map in the portal page, but showing only London UK pages. The present Category:London includes several pages showing on the map in London, Ontario, for example. To do this I thought of changing all the London UK type pages to Category:London UK, but just wanting to check if there might be a better solution? Thanks Philralph (talk) 14:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I just realised that putting in a United Kingdom location parameter in the map template might help, but a lot of the London Boroughs might not locate easily or accurately because the names are sometimes artificial constructs rather than actual place names (?) Philralph (talk) 15:00, 13 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Problem with the rules and request for page topics of interest[edit | edit source]

The following message is for the board of directors, and I do mention an article that Chris Watkins wrote so I would love feedback directly from you, Chris Watkins, if possible.

I really love the vision and purpose of the site. I think it’s really cool to have a wiki dedicated to sustainability, and especially having it be a place that allows original research and how-to’s. I’d love to contribute that kind of material to the site and make new pages for topics that haven’t been covered.

However, I did find some concerning material. On the “Neutral Point of View” page, I found that rule 1 said that Appropedia is not a site for soapboxing. I do understand why this is important, and I have found that many people who use this kind of language have conservative viewpoints and tend to soapbox about it. I have developed a method to both avoid soapboxing and conservatism, however I found some content on other pages that made me feel uncomfortable participating in the project and I imagine others have found the information and felt the same.

I also noticed that on rule 1 it said that current administrations should not be admonished. While I agree that complaining is not helpful in the development of solutions, the only possible way to develop an effective solution is to first identify the problem. It would be really important for people who make pages about solutions to be able to start their page by laying out the problem, including its political causes down to political policies, groups, politicians, and administrations. Governments have a huge responsibility and role in sustainable development.

Rule 1 also said “Use some other site for dissin da man”. I tried looking up the definition of “dissin the man” but could not find anything about it. Could you please explain what it means?

The page on poverty appeared to be soapboxing conservative viewpoints. There was too much to address everything, I’ll highlight the most problematic piece:

“colonialism has in fact improved the local economy”. Then in response to colonial powers selling people and precious minerals it was said that because the area was not being mined, “ it can hardly be said that they sold anything that wasn't theirs to sell.”

This viewpoint seems to be pro-slavery and justifies murder, forced labor and r@pe for the purpose of stealing resources.

This was written in 2008. I do understand that the world was a little different back then. However I am concerned that since then it has not been removed. I am also curious as to what your current stances are.

I would love to contribute to this site, but do not feel like I can unless: There is a clear statement of disapproval for colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology as all three break the rule of soapboxing and both prevent sustainable development and destabilize developed countries. There is a clear invitation for people to work on sustainable development goals 1, 5, and 16 with a list of pages that there is interest in having information on to break the ice and for people to not have concerns that their work will be rejected for not conforming or catering to conservative ideology.

Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Star

Hi @Star. We didn't reply to this message before, but I wanted to let you know that we created a couple of templates to mark topic pages and original research, asking other readers for any feedback. This is in response to your feedback, so thank you! —Emilio (talk) 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Star and thanks for the message!
Wow, we missed that article when we were cleaning up a few years ago 😱 – thanks for pointing it out. That doesn't represent what Appropedia stands for, or stood for at any point in the past. We will do something about that promptly.
(We had a large number of contributions that didn't align with our values, and we removed a lot of pages and edits afterwards. This should have been a part of that but we missed it. There was a lot of time before that where we were trying to come to an understanding, and in hindsight we would have been more direct and set stronger boundaries.)
Re "soapboxing": I think you understand this, but we don't want this to be a place for political arguments and culture wars. (I recall we also wanted to protect our 501(c)3 status for tax exempt donations in the US.) But we do have values and we do allow for discussing and analysing policies.
So as long as we aren't explicitly attacking or endorsing parties or candidates, it should be fine. And as long as we're generally focusing on actions and policies rather than people and groups. (But other directors or our ED who are more up-to-date on this may want to clarify.)
At the same time I don't feel any need to hide my own involvement in volunteering for environmentally oriented political parties and NVDA (Nonviolent Direct Action) activist groups. (Minor involvements, but just to illustrate the point.) And our user pages I'm more of a personal expression, so there's more leeway there for expressing our own POV.
(Re the definition of “dissin the man” – I understand it as colloquial American English for actively disrespecting/attacking (dissing) authorities. We'd be open to changing the language, which was perhaps never meant to last this long in that exact form. We don't want to seem like we intend to stay silent about policies and actions that go against our values.)
Re colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology – without defining terms and giving a complete, nuanced answer, I'll say that we are not here to defend or make space for any ideology with a history of harm, exploitation and repression.
It's also natural that there will be some political differences here. People to our political left and right, but who we can work with on common ground.
Also, I think most of the real value Appropedia has created so far is in sharing specific technologies and solutions, rather than in broad topic pages. And there isn't a lot of politics to discuss on a page about the specifics of reed bed filtration or a type of photovoltaic cell.
Thanks again! You've prompted an active conversation. And we look forward to learning how you're interested in being involved. --Chriswaterguy (talk) 00:49, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for replying.
Wow! That’s wild so many people put edits like that. It’s unfortunate people put information that goes against the site’s values like that but I can’t say I’m surprised, I’ve heard other organizations struggle with similar issues.
I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16 which I see you have a shortage of pages about. I want to write about both on solutions individuals can work on as well as the systemic changes that would need to happen to realistically achieve the sustainable development goals, I intend to write very specifically and not be broad about it. I absolutely agree that focusing on actions and policies are more important as groups and people often morph, change, and exist in gray areas that can not be judged as good or bad. I intend to write as apolitically as possible, and understand that discussing these topics apolitically will appear leftist to some on the U.S. right, and I will only find common ground with the large majority of the population that is willing to find common ground and not the minority that has demonstrated no interest in doing so. Again I’m sure you agree but am restating as I have met people in the past who misused the idea of common ground.
Please let me know if you can clarify the stance on political topics. I know government restrictions on funding can be a big pain point when it comes to talking politics in nonprofits. I would like to have some clear cut boundaries to guide the pages, and would likely post this on the page so those interested in working on those pages as well know what the expectations are.
A sample we could start off with could be:
-use evidence-based information that can be sourced as much as possible
-discuss the actions and policies of a group or person rather than sharing opinions or arguments. When discussing solutions, again keep it focused on actions and policies. Be as specific as possible.
And then later once I’ve written some more stuff I could provide some examples.
Regarding sustainability, there is plenty of politics to discuss as governments and those in power have a much larger responsibility and impact to implement solutions than what individuals can accomplish, and it must be done urgently considering the stage we are at in climate change and society.
By only focusing on solutions for individuals to work on rather than systemic change, it leads to a situation where meaningful progress is not accomplished and individuals are blamed for not making lifestyle changes when they did not have the ability to do so due to economic conditions they had no control over, and the role and responsibility of corporations and government regarding sustainability is ignored. Years from now when the world is in a much worse place environmentally I have no doubt historians will look back and be disappointed we avoided discussing the realistic solutions necessary to achieve sustainability because people believed there wasn’t much politics to discuss. In addition, sustainability can not be achieved without the full equality, participation, and opportunity of women and the working class.
I was interested in a clear invitation to work on goals 1, 5, and 16 as well as sample topics as there have been many times I have encountered people in the nonprofit realm who spoke politely to keep up reputation and appearances and had no problem undermining the work of both volunteers and employees in their organization, as it is a common symptom of the non-profit industrial complex. If you do not know sample topics off the top of your head I could share some sample topics and you can let me know if it’s something that is in line with the vision of the site. Star (talk) 05:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, @Star, I'm not involved with the board but hope you don't mind if I throw in my 2p's worth.
Although you mention individuals, governments and those in power and systemic change, I'm missing any sense that you see value in the power of, and agency of community action? From my perspective, and many across networks I'm involved with: UK, but also Europe and majority world, seen as very different from "the non-profit industrial complex", or "nonprofit realm", being often networks or loose affiliations rather than organisations, and often hugely under-resourced, in conventional terms compared to the three other 'sectors'.
I set up CASwiki some 19 yrs ago as an attempt to shift the balance even if just a tiny bit. CASwiki is a wiki within a wiki here on Appropedia. So for example CASwiki has a page on 'Social inclusion', which as the intro points out straightaway "used here includes economic inclusion or fairness", and includes just the bare beginnings of some suggested Community Action Projects.
As you mention participation, an issue with the SDGs is the extent to which there was pluralistic enough participation in their design. So they might be seen as more of an institutional agenda rather than a peoples agenda. A peoples agenda might have preferred to name SGD16, as peace, justice and strong communities, for example. Best wishes Philralph (talk) 12:37, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I do believe community action is important. I have tried and been unable to gain traction for multiple community action projects in my area so I understand being under-resourced first-hand. Even though I am no longer doing work in that area I have interest in sharing resources for those that do have interest, including personalized community action project ideas and referrals to existing projects specific to each SDG, especially since a big struggle regarding being under resourced is poor advertizing, as people who want to help rarely reach organizations designed to do so. Thank you for sharing CASwiki, it looks closer to the type of work I am interested in.
A people's agenda would have preferred tangible action opposed to hyper-focusing on language, doing the later is one of the manifestations of the non-profit industrial complex, as well as one of the key points in the CIA's Simple Sabotoge Field Manual, A Timeless Guide to Subverting Any Organization with "Purposeful Stupidity" (1944).
Out of the over 160 SDG sub-goals, many address strong communities so arguing that a word in a title should have been changed is a waste of time. Any additional language that does not meet standards of perfection is canceled by the basic and specific concepts of human rights and sustainability.
Again, I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16, with information on systemic change and what organizations and individuals can do. Please let me know what the boundaries are regarding topics and political information. I would also love to discuss the boundaries of CASwiki regarding where information should be added directly versus linked. Thank you. Star (talk) 02:22, 13 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, @Star, it's interesting how language can sometimes perhaps, even if inadvertently, divide. For example I don't think I'm understanding your use of the word 'advertising'? But I'm still inclined to think strong communities have a role to play in helping people who want to help find the opportunities to do so, especially when at least some of them might exist within the agency of the community itself.
Of course many of us might wish for "tangible action", but if you're suggesting that that and a concern for language are mutually exclusive, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I do think wording and language is important because of the way it affects the distribution of resources and so either reinforces or challenges existing power imbalances.
Talking of manifestations, surely one of the biggest wins for the beneficiaries of existing power imbalances, is when any of us chooses to give our emotional energy to that which might divide us rather than that which we have in common? Of course there's no attachment to the idea of perfection in language, and we need to feel free to challenge each other from time to time, but we can do so in ways which feel respectful to both parties however much we may have an attachment to the idea of plain speaking.
That's enough for one post. How are we doing with regard to the above? Any problems with any of that? Philralph (talk) 11:16, 13 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The reply button is being buggy. This is Star. I was not suggesting that tangible action and language is mutually exclusive, but rather that you focus on it in a manner that resembles the sabotage of tangible action. 
I have a problem with the fact that you doubled down on your hyperfocus of the title instead of asking which of the over 160 SDG goals relate to community action or doing the research yourself. I do have a problem with the fact that you did not respond to my request for informational boundaries regarding political information and where information would be best located, which I have asked for three times at this point. 
Division is a very small win for existing power imbalances in comparison to neglect. I am bothered that this site has existed for as long as it has, yet is so undeveloped. Considering how many people care deeply about sustainability, it is strange to me how empty this site appears. If someone could please explain that, it would help a lot. I feel like respect is an arbitrary cultural standard that is often at odds with both what is morally right and the dismantling of power imbalances. Regarding both parties feeling respected, I feel disrespected that this planet is dying, as well as millions of people, this sustainability project has significant portions of undeveloped content, and you are asking me to agree with your criticism of a title of a work of which you have not analyzed the contents. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Star, 19:00, 13 May 2023

Possible development of event templates[edit | edit source]

Hi @Sophivorus, I've been thinking about how to make more and better use of the event templates: Template:Event and Template:Eventlist. The basic design seems to work quite well, but it'd be cool to be able to display an area's events within a context of events for other areas, (Cosmolocal calendars?).

A simple example / mock up here User:Philralph/sandbox displays the local (only) dates in bold (in this case the UK). More complex examples would include a city plus national plus international events. The display on Community action London currently is of one London event, plus other UK events. I'd guess up to 5 areas (displayed) would allow a lot of flexibility, so for example a local area, it's city, region, country and international, but also the possibility of a local area and up to 4 other neighbouring or nearby communities.

Then there'd be a need to identify/display the different locations in a combined list, maybe something like

  • Local event (dates in bold)
  • City event, (London)
  • National event (UK)
  • (all others) International days, etc.

I'm only just starting on this, so might not be able to test things out very much for a while. Probably test out event listings for near me to start with. And/or have the context/other areas display switchable, on or off? What do you think? Cheers, Philralph (talk) 07:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, I'm now preferring a much clearer design using existing templates, so nothing further needed, thanks. Examples at Malling, London and UK, Philralph (talk) 08:03, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! It looks super neat, good solution! I'm glad you managed it, and sorry I wasn't able to help on time. Let me know of any further issues or requests and I'll try to do better, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 11:59, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

help has been destroyed[edit | edit source]

Please reinstate the help pages so they can be directly linked to the menu on the left - Joshua Pearce (talk) 13:56, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hi! Do you mean linking to Help:Contents like before, rather than Category:Appropedia help? I just changed it back, check it out and let me know if it's ok now, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 15:06, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Search non functional?[edit | edit source]

"An error has occurred while searching: We could not complete your search due to a temporary problem. Please try again later."

Hello, does anyone know why I'm getting this message? Thanks, Moribund (talk) 11:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Me, too. Several days with Search Function not working, and this is interfering with my ability to work on several additions to pages I am working on. I have sent emails multiple times, but still zero response. What is happening? Is there any way that users can help to resolve this issue/problem? TomStanton (talk) 17:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You can try searching with a search engine of your choice like so: appropedia + (page name).
Just a temporary workaround of course. Hope someone can fix this, thank you Moribund (talk) 17:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for that idea about how to use other search engines. In the meantime, no sooner did I indicate the problem was continuing, and it seems to have fixed itself. Thank you to whomever made this work again. TomStanton (talk) 18:12, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hello! Thank you Tom and Moribund for your alert and attention to this. We think it has been resolved and our backend crew is keeping their eyes on it. With appreciation to you for this and your years of engagement and impact! --Lonny (talk) 23:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Also thank you @Sophivorus! Lonny (talk) 23:29, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, Moribund (talk) 12:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

addition of links to youtube videos advertising paid courses[edit | edit source]

Hello, just wanted to ask if these kind of contributions: Special:Contributions/27.99.93.37 are welcome or not? Thank you

I already removed one such link from forest gardening, because I watched the video and it was not really connected with the topic. Overall, the link seemed to be advertising in nature and did not add anything to the article, so I decided to remove it. Thoughts? Moribund (talk) 08:33, 14 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Moribund Looking lightly at the user contributions, I think they are sparse and varied enough to be acceptable. However, regarding the particular link and page you mention, since you're the main author and you actually watched the video and considered it not relevant, I support your removal 100%. Sophivorus (talk) 19:07, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lots of video embeds not showing[edit | edit source]

Hi all, think I've been seeing this for a little while now. Some videos look fine, others not showing (?) examples at Scotland community action, Reduce, reuse, repair and recycle UK, India community action. Thanks for any help with this, Philralph (talk) 17:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! The issue was due to a change I had to do to Template:Video. Apologies, I just fixed it, though it may take a few hours to propagate through the entire site. Thanks for the report! Sophivorus (talk) 19:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Distorted Excerpts[edit | edit source]

Is there a way to include all of the Excerpt section from another page without having it summarized and shrunk? -- Joshua Pearce (talk) 20:09, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hi! Do you mean without the surrounding card? If so, then I just added a parameter card to Template:Excerpt that, when set to card=no, will hide the card. Will this do? Sophivorus (talk) 20:28, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes that works - thanks! Joshua Pearce (talk) 14:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My cel not open with any network bicuse is pta cod problem i m forner then come back in her pakistan plz have any idia plz send me or help me[edit | edit source]

Pls solve my cel network sim manigmint bicuse i m open any id for gmail but not conect id plz Mohsin Elahi (talk) 12:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Anyone understands this? It seems like a bug report? Sophivorus (talk) 12:48, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Mohsin Elahi Can you use https://translate.google.com to translate your message? Sophivorus (talk) 13:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi, can you explain what the specific problem is? Thanks! Emilio (talk) 17:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

videos in gallery[edit | edit source]

Is it possible to do videos in a gallery? Joshua Pearce (talk) 18:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hmm, do you mean having Template:Video inside a <gallery> tag? Sophivorus (talk) 18:27, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes - or some other way to use the template video to get lots of videos clumped together instead of one at a time vertically - Joshua Pearce (talk) 20:08, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@J.M.Pearce No current way to do that, I'm afraid. However, I have an idea. I'll implement it next week and let you know! Sophivorus (talk) 20:16, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hi! How about using Template:Video inside a <div class="grid">, like so:

mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
431803145.jpgVimeo_play_button.png

Because all YouTube and Vimeo videos have the same aspect ratio, it looks pretty good. However if you start adding meta data or combining it with images, it may start looking a bit funny:

mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
Appropedia, the sustainability wiki
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
mqdefault.jpgYouTube_icon.svg
431803145.jpgVimeo_play_button.png
The Walking Fish

A tragicomic short film about ambition, perfection and self-acceptance.

Authors: Thessa Meijer
Date: 2020-07-05
Location: Netherlands
Language: Español (es)
License: CC-BY-SA-4.0
Annotations:
  • 00:00 Start
  • 00:10 Tenth second
  • 01:00 Minute mark

What do you think? Does this solution serve your needs? Sophivorus (talk) 15:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus & @J.M.Pearce, sorry to interrupt, just wanted to say this looks really useful for many CASwiki pages. Thanks for this! Firstly just for more efficient display of a small set of videos, see Visions#Video. But perhaps much more importantly if one wants to hint at networking or timeline opportunities, see for example Scotland CAN/video, subpage of a potentially collaborative mapping page. Is there any technical reason to suggest max number of videos per gallery or page? From a users point of view I'm guessing over 12 - 15 begins to look overfacing. What do you think? Philralph (talk) 08:42, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi, glad you find it useful! From a technical point of view, the only thing to consider is that each video requires an extra web request to YouTube in order to get the thumbnail image. Also, remember that in mobile devices, videos won't show in a grid but sequentially. Thus, from a user perspective, I think 6-9 should be enough and 12-15 is a bit borderline. But I'll let you decide that. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 13:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unfortunate top of page display on some pages[edit | edit source]

This looks perhaps like a recent change to how 'thumb' (or image placement?) works for images (?) Some pages largely unaffected eg China community action, but on others an expanded image frame, which looks odd in itself displaces the more interesting and dynamic content that should be at the top of the page eg China news. This also has a knock on effect of making page previews far less effective. Not sure how widespread this problem is, just seen on a few pages. Philralph (talk) 15:53, 28 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! Thanks for finding and reporting this bug, it's due to some changes I did to image styling. I'll fix it in the next hour, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 16:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi again, fixed! Please do a hard refresh (shift+ctrl+R) to clear your browser CSS and let me know of any more issues, thanks! Sophivorus (talk) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Sophivorus, an outstanding issue seems to be that in a lot of cases the page preview includes first the image text, which displaces the intended top of the page text such as news items, examples: China news, Community action London, El Salvador community action. Thanks, Philralph (talk) 12:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Philralph Hi! I just changed the config of mw:Extension:TextExtracts so that image captions are excluded. The issue should be fixed now, but it may take a few hours or days to get through the various caches. Thanks for the report! Sophivorus (talk) 21:43, 18 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Open source ecology[edit | edit source]

Found the above website today [1]

seems broadly similar to appropedia. Perhaps those editors will want to cooperate ? Moribund (talk) 15:25, 29 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Moribund Hi! As you're probably aware, Appropedia has a long history of merging with other sites and wikis. I'd be happy to help with the migration of content and fulfilling any special technical requirements they may have, but I'm not confident in reaching out to them with a proposal (or whatever is the best way to proceed). Sophivorus (talk) 13:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is 4LR44 battery same as 4 lr44 stack together?[edit | edit source]

The batteries are not a perfect fit because they require a nipple on the positive contact. Despite this, I managed to make them work using a piece of foil and some inexpensive LR44s on my SQ-A camera. However, the low-capacity cheap batteries drained quickly, failing to meet my needs. While using alternative batteries won't harm the camera, it's not an ideal solution. I recommend using Energizer 4LR44s if possible, as they have proven to last through numerous shoots with my SQ-A camera. 104.194.79.40 06:50, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

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