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Software update[edit | edit source]

Ho ho ho, merry Green Christmas! Here's my present to you: I just finished updating MediaWiki (the software of Appropedia) from version 1.35 to 1.39 (that's why it's been down and unstable for two hours)! The new version is a Long Term Support version, which means it will be supported until November 2025! This will probably be the last (major) update until the next Long Term Support version (1.43) since it's usually not worth updating to the short term support versions (unless some specific feature we want requires it).

MediaWiki 1.39 brings several new features (plus those of MediaWiki 1.36, 1.37 and 1.38) but perhaps more importantly, it allowed to update all extensions to their latest versions, which also brings several new features.

That being said, there'll also be several new bugs around due to the updates. I'll be fixing them during the next few days, but do let me know if you notice any I might have missed. Thanks! Sophivorus (talk) 14:45, 15 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, don't know if this is related, but something a little weird with news templates: on Community action UK#News and comment I added in two new items via News UK, and removed the UK location from 2 (older items) via News by UK location, both on Dec 15. For me the new items are showing, but also the two which no longer have the UK as a location (?) Thanks, Philralph (talk) 11:01, 19 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tried again but a third instance, and one item coming up twice. Tried removing this item from News by UK location, but still displaying, if that helps? Have temporarily suspended Community action UK#News and comment, but you can see what the newslist template produces at User:Philralph/sandbox2, Philralph (talk) 10:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! This is probably an issue with outdated semantic data lingering in the database. I'll try to do a full refresh of the data this week, but let me know if it happens to fix itself before! Sophivorus (talk) 13:00, 20 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Multiple listing of same items also found on Housing UK news, Scotland news, and Glasgow community action, plus maybe others not yet discovered? Philralph (talk) 12:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Finding others: Wales news, Barcelona news, California news, US news, Climate news all the examples from when a location removed or changed, Philralph (talk) 15:19, 24 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! Sorry again for the delay but I think it's fixed now. Let me know of any more issues! Sophivorus (talk) 13:17, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sophivorus Fantastic! From a preliminary look all the 2022 stuff looks ok, just one item I tried for 2023: bottom of page on User:Philralph/sandbox2 and Extinction Rebellion is still repeating. Philralph (talk) 14:39, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hm, soon I'll have to regenerate the data again anyway, so it may fix that. Please let me know if more repetitions appear! Sophivorus (talk) 15:01, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sophivorus, OK, thanks. I'm thinking it'd be good to set up the templates on 'main' pages ie Community action, Welcome to Appropedia and Community action UK using something that doesn't need updating. Are there 'magic words' which will produce / display current month and current year, and if poss limit display to max 5 items? Philralph (talk) 15:20, 17 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi, definitely! I just added a 'limit' parameter to Template:Eventlist. Also check out the available magic words and see what I did here for an example. Let me know if I can be of any help! Sophivorus (talk) 12:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sophivorus, Thanks, looks good. I'll have a play. Philralph (talk) 15:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sophivorus, if Template:Newslist could include a 'limit' parameter, which would display the, e.g. 5, most recent items, that'd be perfect. Philralph (talk) 15:00, 24 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Done! Sophivorus (talk) 15:18, 25 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, news and event templates seem to have been working as they should for a while now. Thanks for all your help with this. Just one more small thing. Could the 'More Results' button / link be taken off Community action and Community action UK? Thanks Philralph (talk) 09:14, 28 February 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! Glad it's working ok now. I just removed the "More results" button from both Template:Newslist and Template:Eventlist. Let me know of any more issues or requests! By the way, soon I'll do some updates to the semantic database so there may be a few hours with incomplete results until it finishes. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 12:23, 2 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

How to comment/respond, here?[edit | edit source]

Hi! How do I comment/respond to these conversations without editing the previous text? Thanks! StoriesWitha Will (talk) 22:43, 29 December 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@StoriesWitha Will Hi! There used to be a handy Reply button next to each comment, but the recent software update caused a bug that prevents it from showing. :-( I just reported it here and will try to fix it asap. In the meantime, I'm afraid the only way to reply is to edit the page and manually add your comment after the one you want to reply to. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 12:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by StoriesWitha Will

@StoriesWitha Will I managed to fix it, but please let me know if you notice any bugs, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 19:37, 10 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

False alarm, my "fix" caused crashes to non-logged in users so I had to revert. :-( Sophivorus (talk) 14:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@StoriesWitha Will Now yes, hopefully. Sophivorus (talk) 13:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Possible spam?[edit | edit source]

I've reverted a couple of recent edits from Special:Contributions/Strategicmarket, which looked to me like spam. Noticing a couple of others that someone else might like to review? Thanks Philralph (talk) 13:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Spam indeed. I just reverted the other edits and blocked the account. Sophivorus (talk) 15:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Automatic wikitext standardization[edit | edit source]

Hi! Today I finished developing and deploying the first version of mw:Extension:StandardWikitext, an extension that automatically fixes and standardizes wikitext when saving the page. This has several goals:

Fix and avoid messy wikitext
Fix and avoid some broken wikitext
Simplify regular expression search-and-replace
Eliminate OCD editing
Bring Appropedia up to a new level of excellence

This extension will silently make changes to the wikitext every time you save a page (in the main namespace), so you may be a bit surprised to see changes you didn't make when looking at your own diffs. However, they shouldn't be problematic or controversial, as I made a special effort to be conservative in the standardization rules and to thoroughly test them. Still, if you notice any bugs or issues, please let me know! Kind regards, Sophivorus (talk) 14:34, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, I'm trying to edit Community involvement UK news/2019 and Community involvement UK news/2011-2016 but keep getting message: "[ZAtEVnd7hAcFeH50tLBGAwAAAAQ] 2023-03-10 14:53:11: Fatal exception of type "Error"" (?)

@Philralph Sorry, fixed. Sophivorus (talk) 15:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Sophivorus, thanks, all seems fine now, Philralph (talk) 15:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Extension:Appropedia[edit | edit source]

Hi! Just wanted to announce that all JavaScript at MediaWiki:Common.js, all CSS at MediaWiki:Common.css, all PHP at LocalSettings.php, and more, has been moved to a custom extension hosted at Appropedia's GitHub repo. The reasons for the move are explained there. I've done a lot of testing and everything looks good to me but let me know if you notice any new bugs. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 13:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is awesome. Thanks so much! Does this mean that all changes to javascript or CSS have to be done at a different place? Emilio (talk) 15:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Emilio Yes, that's the one "downside" in my opinion: changes to JavaScript and CSS should be sent to the Appropedia extension (via a pull request or a direct edit at GitHub) and then "pulled" into Appropedia (by me or anyone with SSH access). However, this extra step also implies better code-review and accountability. Sophivorus (talk) 16:34, 28 March 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Advocating more of a presence on, and involvement within and across Hylo[edit | edit source]

Hi @Kathy Nativi, @Emilio, @Sophivorus and @PedroK. I've recently been helping The Alternative Global Co-creators network set up groups on Hylo. Whilst looking around I saw the Appropedia group there, and noticed this was created around a year ago.

One of the reasons I advocated Hylo for The Alternative was that it might be described as a values aligned platform. But also looking around more recently I've been finding great discussions and perhaps a more impressive range of groups there. I've particularly enjoyed reading discussions to do with Bioregionalism, but also for example "How do we respond to / engage with ChatGPT?" I'd love to know what you guys think about this. Also do you know for example of any bioregional initiatives in the Majority World?

I notice the group is Public - Anyone can find and see this group & Open - Anyone who can see this group can join, so seems to me a good place to be sharing our news with a probably quite receptive audience? There were 4 members of the group so far, that's with hardly any content yet.

I'd be happy to maybe share some content to the Appropedia group if this would help? But kind of feel it'd be great to have your voices there, and across Hylo. Best wishes, Philralph (talk) 17:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More on Hylo's vision & plans for 2023: "Co-evolving technology and a culture of stewardship: Our plans for Hylo", Clare Politano, Nov 28, 2022, 7 min read, Philralph (talk) 07:11, 7 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Philralph, Thanks. Here is there newest 2023 update - https://medium.com/terran-collective/together-we-flourish-celebrating-hylos-community-and-collaborations-in-2023-df88733109a7. I am excited to learn more about how they will self fund to maintain their project and hope ot check it out this year. Lonny (talk) 00:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Advice request re categories[edit | edit source]

Hi, I've recently setup a new portal page on CASwiki: Community action London (UK), and several spin off pages. It'd be nice to include a map in the portal page, but showing only London UK pages. The present Category:London includes several pages showing on the map in London, Ontario, for example. To do this I thought of changing all the London UK type pages to Category:London UK, but just wanting to check if there might be a better solution? Thanks Philralph (talk) 14:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I just realised that putting in a United Kingdom location parameter in the map template might help, but a lot of the London Boroughs might not locate easily or accurately because the names are sometimes artificial constructs rather than actual place names (?) Philralph (talk) 15:00, 13 April 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Problem with the rules and request for page topics of interest[edit | edit source]

The following message is for the board of directors, and I do mention an article that Chris Watkins wrote so I would love feedback directly from you, Chris Watkins, if possible.

I really love the vision and purpose of the site. I think it’s really cool to have a wiki dedicated to sustainability, and especially having it be a place that allows original research and how-to’s. I’d love to contribute that kind of material to the site and make new pages for topics that haven’t been covered.

However, I did find some concerning material. On the “Neutral Point of View” page, I found that rule 1 said that Appropedia is not a site for soapboxing. I do understand why this is important, and I have found that many people who use this kind of language have conservative viewpoints and tend to soapbox about it. I have developed a method to both avoid soapboxing and conservatism, however I found some content on other pages that made me feel uncomfortable participating in the project and I imagine others have found the information and felt the same.

I also noticed that on rule 1 it said that current administrations should not be admonished. While I agree that complaining is not helpful in the development of solutions, the only possible way to develop an effective solution is to first identify the problem. It would be really important for people who make pages about solutions to be able to start their page by laying out the problem, including its political causes down to political policies, groups, politicians, and administrations. Governments have a huge responsibility and role in sustainable development.

Rule 1 also said “Use some other site for dissin da man”. I tried looking up the definition of “dissin the man” but could not find anything about it. Could you please explain what it means?

The page on poverty appeared to be soapboxing conservative viewpoints. There was too much to address everything, I’ll highlight the most problematic piece:

“colonialism has in fact improved the local economy”. Then in response to colonial powers selling people and precious minerals it was said that because the area was not being mined, “ it can hardly be said that they sold anything that wasn't theirs to sell.”

This viewpoint seems to be pro-slavery and justifies murder, forced labor and r@pe for the purpose of stealing resources.

This was written in 2008. I do understand that the world was a little different back then. However I am concerned that since then it has not been removed. I am also curious as to what your current stances are.

I would love to contribute to this site, but do not feel like I can unless: There is a clear statement of disapproval for colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology as all three break the rule of soapboxing and both prevent sustainable development and destabilize developed countries. There is a clear invitation for people to work on sustainable development goals 1, 5, and 16 with a list of pages that there is interest in having information on to break the ice and for people to not have concerns that their work will be rejected for not conforming or catering to conservative ideology.

Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Star

Hi @Star. We didn't reply to this message before, but I wanted to let you know that we created a couple of templates to mark topic pages and original research, asking other readers for any feedback. This is in response to your feedback, so thank you! —Emilio (talk) 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Star and thanks for the message!

Wow, we missed that article when we were cleaning up a few years ago 😱 – thanks for pointing it out. That doesn't represent what Appropedia stands for, or stood for at any point in the past. We will do something about that promptly.

(We had a large number of contributions that didn't align with our values, and we removed a lot of pages and edits afterwards. This should have been a part of that but we missed it. There was a lot of time before that where we were trying to come to an understanding, and in hindsight we would have been more direct and set stronger boundaries.)

Re "soapboxing": I think you understand this, but we don't want this to be a place for political arguments and culture wars. (I recall we also wanted to protect our 501(c)3 status for tax exempt donations in the US.) But we do have values and we do allow for discussing and analysing policies.

So as long as we aren't explicitly attacking or endorsing parties or candidates, it should be fine. And as long as we're generally focusing on actions and policies rather than people and groups. (But other directors or our ED who are more up-to-date on this may want to clarify.)

At the same time I don't feel any need to hide my own involvement in volunteering for environmentally oriented political parties and NVDA (Nonviolent Direct Action) activist groups. (Minor involvements, but just to illustrate the point.) And our user pages I'm more of a personal expression, so there's more leeway there for expressing our own POV.

(Re the definition of “dissin the man” – I understand it as colloquial American English for actively disrespecting/attacking (dissing) authorities. We'd be open to changing the language, which was perhaps never meant to last this long in that exact form. We don't want to seem like we intend to stay silent about policies and actions that go against our values.)

Re colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology – without defining terms and giving a complete, nuanced answer, I'll say that we are not here to defend or make space for any ideology with a history of harm, exploitation and repression.

It's also natural that there will be some political differences here. People to our political left and right, but who we can work with on common ground.

Also, I think most of the real value Appropedia has created so far is in sharing specific technologies and solutions, rather than in broad topic pages. And there isn't a lot of politics to discuss on a page about the specifics of reed bed filtration or a type of photovoltaic cell.

Thanks again! You've prompted an active conversation. And we look forward to learning how you're interested in being involved. --Chriswaterguy (talk) 00:49, 11 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you for replying.

Wow! That’s wild so many people put edits like that. It’s unfortunate people put information that goes against the site’s values like that but I can’t say I’m surprised, I’ve heard other organizations struggle with similar issues.

I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16 which I see you have a shortage of pages about. I want to write about both on solutions individuals can work on as well as the systemic changes that would need to happen to realistically achieve the sustainable development goals, I intend to write very specifically and not be broad about it. I absolutely agree that focusing on actions and policies are more important as groups and people often morph, change, and exist in gray areas that can not be judged as good or bad. I intend to write as apolitically as possible, and understand that discussing these topics apolitically will appear leftist to some on the U.S. right, and I will only find common ground with the large majority of the population that is willing to find common ground and not the minority that has demonstrated no interest in doing so. Again I’m sure you agree but am restating as I have met people in the past who misused the idea of common ground.

Please let me know if you can clarify the stance on political topics. I know government restrictions on funding can be a big pain point when it comes to talking politics in nonprofits. I would like to have some clear cut boundaries to guide the pages, and would likely post this on the page so those interested in working on those pages as well know what the expectations are.

A sample we could start off with could be:

-use evidence-based information that can be sourced as much as possible

-discuss the actions and policies of a group or person rather than sharing opinions or arguments. When discussing solutions, again keep it focused on actions and policies. Be as specific as possible.

And then later once I’ve written some more stuff I could provide some examples.

Regarding sustainability, there is plenty of politics to discuss as governments and those in power have a much larger responsibility and impact to implement solutions than what individuals can accomplish, and it must be done urgently considering the stage we are at in climate change and society.

By only focusing on solutions for individuals to work on rather than systemic change, it leads to a situation where meaningful progress is not accomplished and individuals are blamed for not making lifestyle changes when they did not have the ability to do so due to economic conditions they had no control over, and the role and responsibility of corporations and government regarding sustainability is ignored. Years from now when the world is in a much worse place environmentally I have no doubt historians will look back and be disappointed we avoided discussing the realistic solutions necessary to achieve sustainability because people believed there wasn’t much politics to discuss. In addition, sustainability can not be achieved without the full equality, participation, and opportunity of women and the working class.

I was interested in a clear invitation to work on goals 1, 5, and 16 as well as sample topics as there have been many times I have encountered people in the nonprofit realm who spoke politely to keep up reputation and appearances and had no problem undermining the work of both volunteers and employees in their organization, as it is a common symptom of the non-profit industrial complex. If you do not know sample topics off the top of your head I could share some sample topics and you can let me know if it’s something that is in line with the vision of the site. Star (talk) 05:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi, @Star, I'm not involved with the board but hope you don't mind if I throw in my 2p's worth.

Although you mention individuals, governments and those in power and systemic change, I'm missing any sense that you see value in the power of, and agency of community action? From my perspective, and many across networks I'm involved with: UK, but also Europe and majority world, seen as very different from "the non-profit industrial complex", or "nonprofit realm", being often networks or loose affiliations rather than organisations, and often hugely under-resourced, in conventional terms compared to the three other 'sectors'.

I set up CASwiki some 19 yrs ago as an attempt to shift the balance even if just a tiny bit. CASwiki is a wiki within a wiki here on Appropedia. So for example CASwiki has a page on 'Social inclusion', which as the intro points out straightaway "used here includes economic inclusion or fairness", and includes just the bare beginnings of some suggested Community Action Projects.

As you mention participation, an issue with the SDGs is the extent to which there was pluralistic enough participation in their design. So they might be seen as more of an institutional agenda rather than a peoples agenda. A peoples agenda might have preferred to name SGD16, as peace, justice and strong communities, for example. Best wishes Philralph (talk) 12:37, 12 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I do believe community action is important. I have tried and been unable to gain traction for multiple community action projects in my area so I understand being under-resourced first-hand. Even though I am no longer doing work in that area I have interest in sharing resources for those that do have interest, including personalized community action project ideas and referrals to existing projects specific to each SDG, especially since a big struggle regarding being under resourced is poor advertizing, as people who want to help rarely reach organizations designed to do so. Thank you for sharing CASwiki, it looks closer to the type of work I am interested in.

A people's agenda would have preferred tangible action opposed to hyper-focusing on language, doing the later is one of the manifestations of the non-profit industrial complex, as well as one of the key points in the CIA's Simple Sabotoge Field Manual, A Timeless Guide to Subverting Any Organization with "Purposeful Stupidity" (1944).

Out of the over 160 SDG sub-goals, many address strong communities so arguing that a word in a title should have been changed is a waste of time. Any additional language that does not meet standards of perfection is canceled by the basic and specific concepts of human rights and sustainability.

Again, I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16, with information on systemic change and what organizations and individuals can do. Please let me know what the boundaries are regarding topics and political information. I would also love to discuss the boundaries of CASwiki regarding where information should be added directly versus linked. Thank you. Star (talk) 02:22, 13 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi, @Star, it's interesting how language can sometimes perhaps, even if inadvertently, divide. For example I don't think I'm understanding your use of the word 'advertising'? But I'm still inclined to think strong communities have a role to play in helping people who want to help find the opportunities to do so, especially when at least some of them might exist within the agency of the community itself.

Of course many of us might wish for "tangible action", but if you're suggesting that that and a concern for language are mutually exclusive, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I do think wording and language is important because of the way it affects the distribution of resources and so either reinforces or challenges existing power imbalances.

Talking of manifestations, surely one of the biggest wins for the beneficiaries of existing power imbalances, is when any of us chooses to give our emotional energy to that which might divide us rather than that which we have in common? Of course there's no attachment to the idea of perfection in language, and we need to feel free to challenge each other from time to time, but we can do so in ways which feel respectful to both parties however much we may have an attachment to the idea of plain speaking.

That's enough for one post. How are we doing with regard to the above? Any problems with any of that? Philralph (talk) 11:16, 13 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The reply button is being buggy. This is Star. I was not suggesting that tangible action and language is mutually exclusive, but rather that you focus on it in a manner that resembles the sabotage of tangible action.

I have a problem with the fact that you doubled down on your hyperfocus of the title instead of asking which of the over 160 SDG goals relate to community action or doing the research yourself. I do have a problem with the fact that you did not respond to my request for informational boundaries regarding political information and where information would be best located, which I have asked for three times at this point.

Division is a very small win for existing power imbalances in comparison to neglect. I am bothered that this site has existed for as long as it has, yet is so undeveloped. Considering how many people care deeply about sustainability, it is strange to me how empty this site appears. If someone could please explain that, it would help a lot. I feel like respect is an arbitrary cultural standard that is often at odds with both what is morally right and the dismantling of power imbalances. Regarding both parties feeling respected, I feel disrespected that this planet is dying, as well as millions of people, this sustainability project has significant portions of undeveloped content, and you are asking me to agree with your criticism of a title of a work of which you have not analyzed the contents. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Star, 19:00, 13 May 2023

Possible development of event templates[edit | edit source]

Hi @Sophivorus, I've been thinking about how to make more and better use of the event templates: Template:Event and Template:Eventlist. The basic design seems to work quite well, but it'd be cool to be able to display an area's events within a context of events for other areas, (Cosmolocal calendars?).

A simple example / mock up here User:Philralph/sandbox displays the local (only) dates in bold (in this case the UK). More complex examples would include a city plus national plus international events. The display on Community action London currently is of one London event, plus other UK events. I'd guess up to 5 areas (displayed) would allow a lot of flexibility, so for example a local area, it's city, region, country and international, but also the possibility of a local area and up to 4 other neighbouring or nearby communities.

Then there'd be a need to identify/display the different locations in a combined list, maybe something like

Local event (dates in bold)
City event, (London)
National event (UK)
(all others) International days, etc.

I'm only just starting on this, so might not be able to test things out very much for a while. Probably test out event listings for near me to start with. And/or have the context/other areas display switchable, on or off? What do you think? Cheers, Philralph (talk) 07:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus, I'm now preferring a much clearer design using existing templates, so nothing further needed, thanks. Examples at Malling, London and UK, Philralph (talk) 08:03, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! It looks super neat, good solution! I'm glad you managed it, and sorry I wasn't able to help on time. Let me know of any further issues or requests and I'll try to do better, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 11:59, 13 September 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

help has been destroyed[edit | edit source]

Please reinstate the help pages so they can be directly linked to the menu on the left - Joshua Pearce (talk) 13:56, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hi! Do you mean linking to Help:Contents like before, rather than Category:Appropedia help? I just changed it back, check it out and let me know if it's ok now, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 15:06, 14 December 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Search non functional?[edit | edit source]

"An error has occurred while searching: We could not complete your search due to a temporary problem. Please try again later."

Hello, does anyone know why I'm getting this message? Thanks, Moribund (talk) 11:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Me, too. Several days with Search Function not working, and this is interfering with my ability to work on several additions to pages I am working on. I have sent emails multiple times, but still zero response. What is happening? Is there any way that users can help to resolve this issue/problem? TomStanton (talk) 17:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You can try searching with a search engine of your choice like so: appropedia + (page name).

Just a temporary workaround of course. Hope someone can fix this, thank you Moribund (talk) 17:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you for that idea about how to use other search engines. In the meantime, no sooner did I indicate the problem was continuing, and it seems to have fixed itself. Thank you to whomever made this work again. TomStanton (talk) 18:12, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello! Thank you Tom and Moribund for your alert and attention to this. We think it has been resolved and our backend crew is keeping their eyes on it. With appreciation to you for this and your years of engagement and impact! --Lonny (talk) 23:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Also thank you @Sophivorus! Lonny (talk) 23:29, 8 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks, Moribund (talk) 12:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

addition of links to youtube videos advertising paid courses[edit | edit source]

Hello, just wanted to ask if these kind of contributions: Special:Contributions/27.99.93.37 are welcome or not? Thank you

I already removed one such link from forest gardening, because I watched the video and it was not really connected with the topic. Overall, the link seemed to be advertising in nature and did not add anything to the article, so I decided to remove it. Thoughts? Moribund (talk) 08:33, 14 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Moribund Looking lightly at the user contributions, I think they are sparse and varied enough to be acceptable. However, regarding the particular link and page you mention, since you're the main author and you actually watched the video and considered it not relevant, I support your removal 100%. Sophivorus (talk) 19:07, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Lots of video embeds not showing[edit | edit source]

Hi all, think I've been seeing this for a little while now. Some videos look fine, others not showing (?) examples at Scotland community action, Reduce, reuse, repair and recycle UK, India community action. Thanks for any help with this, Philralph (talk) 17:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! The issue was due to a change I had to do to Template:Video. Apologies, I just fixed it, though it may take a few hours to propagate through the entire site. Thanks for the report! Sophivorus (talk) 19:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Distorted Excerpts[edit | edit source]

Is there a way to include all of the Excerpt section from another page without having it summarized and shrunk? -- Joshua Pearce (talk) 20:09, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hi! Do you mean without the surrounding card? If so, then I just added a parameter card to Template:Excerpt that, when set to card=no, will hide the card. Will this do? Sophivorus (talk) 20:28, 23 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes that works - thanks! Joshua Pearce (talk) 14:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My cel not open with any network bicuse is pta cod problem i m forner then come back in her pakistan plz have any idia plz send me or help me[edit | edit source]

Pls solve my cel network sim manigmint bicuse i m open any id for gmail but not conect id plz Mohsin Elahi (talk) 12:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Anyone understands this? It seems like a bug report? Sophivorus (talk) 12:48, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Mohsin Elahi Can you use https://translate.google.com to translate your message? Sophivorus (talk) 13:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi, can you explain what the specific problem is? Thanks! Emilio (talk) 17:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

videos in gallery[edit | edit source]

Is it possible to do videos in a gallery? Joshua Pearce (talk) 18:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hmm, do you mean having Template:Video inside a <gallery> tag? Sophivorus (talk) 18:27, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes - or some other way to use the template video to get lots of videos clumped together instead of one at a time vertically - Joshua Pearce (talk) 20:08, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce No current way to do that, I'm afraid. However, I have an idea. I'll implement it next week and let you know! Sophivorus (talk) 20:16, 2 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@J.M.Pearce Hi! How about using Template:Video inside a <div class="grid">, like so:

Because all YouTube and Vimeo videos have the same aspect ratio, it looks pretty good. However if you start adding meta data or combining it with images, it may start looking a bit funny:

The Walking Fish

A tragicomic short film about ambition, perfection and self-acceptance.

Keywords: ambition, perfection, self-acceptance, fish

Authors: Thessa Meijer

Date: 2020-07-05

Location: Netherlands

Language: Español (es)

License: CC-BY-SA-4.0

Annotations:

00:00 Start
00:10 Tenth second
01:00 Minute mark

What do you think? Does this solution serve your needs? Sophivorus (talk) 15:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @Sophivorus & @J.M.Pearce, sorry to interrupt, just wanted to say this looks really useful for many CASwiki pages. Thanks for this! Firstly just for more efficient display of a small set of videos, see Visions#Video. But perhaps much more importantly if one wants to hint at networking or timeline opportunities, see for example Scotland CAN/video, subpage of a potentially collaborative mapping page. Is there any technical reason to suggest max number of videos per gallery or page? From a users point of view I'm guessing over 12 - 15 begins to look overfacing. What do you think? Philralph (talk) 08:42, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi, glad you find it useful! From a technical point of view, the only thing to consider is that each video requires an extra web request to YouTube in order to get the thumbnail image. Also, remember that in mobile devices, videos won't show in a grid but sequentially. Thus, from a user perspective, I think 6-9 should be enough and 12-15 is a bit borderline. But I'll let you decide that. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 13:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unfortunate top of page display on some pages[edit | edit source]

This looks perhaps like a recent change to how 'thumb' (or image placement?) works for images (?) Some pages largely unaffected eg China community action, but on others an expanded image frame, which looks odd in itself displaces the more interesting and dynamic content that should be at the top of the page eg China news. This also has a knock on effect of making page previews far less effective. Not sure how widespread this problem is, just seen on a few pages. Philralph (talk) 15:53, 28 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! Thanks for finding and reporting this bug, it's due to some changes I did to image styling. I'll fix it in the next hour, cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 16:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi again, fixed! Please do a hard refresh (shift+ctrl+R) to clear your browser CSS and let me know of any more issues, thanks! Sophivorus (talk) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Sophivorus, an outstanding issue seems to be that in a lot of cases the page preview includes first the image text, which displaces the intended top of the page text such as news items, examples: China news, Community action London, El Salvador community action. Thanks, Philralph (talk) 12:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Philralph Hi! I just changed the config of mw:Extension:TextExtracts so that image captions are excluded. The issue should be fixed now, but it may take a few hours or days to get through the various caches. Thanks for the report! Sophivorus (talk) 21:43, 18 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Open source ecology[edit | edit source]

Found the above website today [1]

seems broadly similar to appropedia. Perhaps those editors will want to cooperate ? Moribund (talk) 15:25, 29 February 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Moribund Hi! As you're probably aware, Appropedia has a long history of merging with other sites and wikis. I'd be happy to help with the migration of content and fulfilling any special technical requirements they may have, but I'm not confident in reaching out to them with a proposal (or whatever is the best way to proceed). Sophivorus (talk) 13:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Remove from admin list[edit | edit source]

Hello! Please can someone remove me as an admin:

I've never really carried out any admin role on this site.
I don't support some of the political affiliations of Appropedia and so I don't want to be associated. I believe Appropedia should primarily be non-political in nature.

Thank you, Moribund (talk) 17:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Moribund Not sure what political affiliation you mean, but sure, I just removed you from the admin group. Cheers! Sophivorus (talk) 22:13, 14 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

heat stress on cognitive focus[edit | edit source]

effect of heat stress on cognitive focus 49.145.187.72 01:16, 21 April 2024 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{CPheader}}
+Welcome! This page is the central hub for all matters related to Appropedia. Feel free to ask questions or make comments about specific pages or about Appropedia in general.
-__NEWSECTIONLINK__
-<br>
-{{Lang|[[Ekopedia:fr:Ekopedia:Bistro|Français (sur Ekopedia)]] - [[Village pump|English]]}}
-<br>
-''To keep track of recent changes to all the pages linked above, check '''[http://appropedia.org/index.php?title=Special:Recentchangeslinked&target=Template:CPheader Recent changes to community discussion pages]'''. You may also place a {{tl|Discussion tracker}} on your user talk page.'' <br>
-{{community}}
+{{New section|New topic}} {{Button|text=Search archives|url={{fullurl:Special:Search|prefix={{FULLPAGENAMEE}}}}}} {{Button|text=Browse archives|url={{fullurl:Special:PrefixIndex/{{FULLPAGENAMEE}}}}}}
-{{talk tracker}}
+== Software update ==
-<center>'''''Feel free to ask a general question or make a comment about Appropedia. For policy questions, see the [[Appropedia talk:Policy discussion|Policy discussion page]]. For questions and comments on more specific issues, it may be best to find the relevant article (if it exists) and ask on the talk page. <span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:{{TALKPAGENAMEE}}|action=edit}}&section=new Click here to start a new topic.]</span>'''''</center>
+Ho ho ho, merry [[Green Christmas]]! Here's my present to you: I just finished updating MediaWiki (the software of Appropedia) from version 1.35 to 1.39 (that's why it's been down and unstable for two hours)! The new version is a Long Term Support version, which means it will be [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Version_lifecycle#Versions_and_their_end-of-life supported until November 2025]! This will probably be the last (major) update until the next Long Term Support version (1.43) since it's usually not worth updating to the short term support versions (unless some specific feature we want requires it).
-== Archive ==
+MediaWiki 1.39 brings several new features (plus those of MediaWiki 1.36, 1.37 and 1.38) but perhaps more importantly, it allowed to update all extensions to their latest versions, which also brings several new features.
-Older discussions can be found at the [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1|Archive1]] (older) & [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2|Archive2]] (more recent discussions). If you wish to continue those discussions, please start a new section on this page - do not add new comments to the archive page.
-Here are direct links to the conversations in the archives:
+That being said, there'll also be several new bugs around due to the updates. I'll be fixing them during the next few days, but do let me know if you notice any I might have missed. Thanks! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 14:45, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
-'''Archive1''':  <small>[[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Organisations|Organisations]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Server performance took a dive?|Server performance took a dive?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#approx Sep-Oct 2007|approx Sep-Oct 2007]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Agroinnovations: Call for Collaborators|Agroinnovations: Call for Collaborators]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#The Project|The Project]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Technological Possibilities|Technological Possibilities]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Solar hot water|Solar hot water]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Sustainable Energy booklet|Sustainable Energy booklet]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#How to monitor changes|How to monitor changes]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#WorldChanging.com|WorldChanging.com]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Appropedia:About or Appropedia:About_Appropedia?|Appropedia:About or Appropedia:About_Appropedia?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#News? Wind? Transportation?|News? Wind? Transportation?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Refining Newpageresource template & others|Refining Newpageresource template & others]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#New page templates - slim down?|New page templates - slim down?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Nov 06 to Feb 07|Nov 06 to Feb 07]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Categorization change|Categorization change]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Two suggestions for navigation bar|Two suggestions for navigation bar]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Server performance?|Server performance?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Attribution|Attribution]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Washing and drying clothes category|Washing and drying clothes category]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Discussion tracker|Discussion tracker]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Login problem|Login problem]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Unsigned Complement|Unsigned Complement]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Community portal & Village pump removed from sidebar?|Community portal & Village pump removed from sidebar?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Howtopedia|Howtopedia]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Main Page tests|Main Page tests]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Should we group countries by region?|Should we group countries by region?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Confused by sections/subsections in agriculture|Confused by sections/subsections in agriculture]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Suggest restoring "Public health" category|Suggest restoring "Public health" category]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Who works with Afro-Latino communities?|Who works with Afro-Latino communities?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Majority world|Majority world]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#March 07 to April 08|March 07 to April 08]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#State makes big fuss over local couple|State makes big fuss over local couple]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Plural/singular titles in main space|Plural/singular titles in main space]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Category tool|Category tool]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Promote feed-back from user to designer|Promote feed-back from user to designer]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Articles on people|Articles on people]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Porting help?|Porting help?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#"Reducing oil dependency" category name?|"Reducing oil dependency" category name?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#"Sub-sub categories for the sub-category Demotech|"Sub-sub categories for the sub-category Demotech]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Developments in networking|Developments in networking]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#AT Theory and environmentalism|AT Theory and environmentalism]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Page substitution policy|Page substitution policy]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Porting graphical PDF Pages|Porting graphical PDF Pages]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Porting CD3WD Pages|Porting CD3WD Pages]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Proposed medical disclaimer and science disclaimer|Proposed medical disclaimer and science disclaimer]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Mark pages for rapid deletion?|Mark pages for rapid deletion?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Copyvios? Hygiene Standard Institute and Hygiene Standard Institute (HSI)|Copyvios? Hygiene Standard Institute and Hygiene Standard Institute (HSI)]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Rambling thoughts on organizational POV|Rambling thoughts on organizational POV]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Appropedia Action Groups|Appropedia Action Groups]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Show/Hide function|Show/Hide function]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#A "License taskforce" and "Appropedia contact team"?|A "License taskforce" and "Appropedia contact team"?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Thanks|Thanks]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Event details|Event details]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#March 07 to August 08|March 07 to August 08]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#RSS reader and running feeds on the wiki|RSS reader and running feeds on the wiki]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Where should ISBNs link to?|Where should ISBNs link to?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#How to live on frogs|How to live on frogs]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Le puits du village|Le puits du village]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Appropedia: a wiki for solutions? (Setting our boundaries)|Appropedia: a wiki for solutions? (Setting our boundaries)]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Where do we send issues content?|Where do we send issues content?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Announcement box|Announcement box]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#"Sustainable living" & visibility on the web|"Sustainable living" & visibility on the web]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Cheap solar air conditioner|Cheap solar air conditioner]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Trolls|Trolls]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Wiki collaboration...|Wiki collaboration...]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Human population|Human population]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Library Section?|Library Section?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Site notice|Site notice]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#September 08 to...|September 08 to...]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Musing on subcategories for Programs|Musing on subcategories for Programs]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Preventing attack with name string|Preventing attack with name string]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Collapsing categories|Collapsing categories]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Template links to Wikipedia|Template links to Wikipedia]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Rice Hulls|Rice Hulls]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#ThinHouse|ThinHouse]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Webpage editing screen|Webpage editing screen]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Health hazard if used for drinking water|Health hazard if used for drinking water]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#How to request a category rename|How to request a category rename]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#SSB Maker|SSB Maker]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Copyright issues|Copyright issues]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#:(|:(]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Comment on the bookmark gadget|Comment on the bookmark gadget]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Layout problem|Layout problem]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#The .7B.7Bdelete.7D.7D tag|The <nowiki>{{delete}}</nowiki> tag]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#downloadable|downloadable]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#wiki-net|wiki-net]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Deletion policy|Deletion policy]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Search Appropedia with one click:  handy bookmarklets|Search Appropedia with one click:  handy bookmarklets]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#best permaculture videos, especially for dry areas|best permaculture videos, especially for dry areas]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Which external links to include in a page?|Which external links to include in a page?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Update on attribution templates|Update on attribution templates]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive1#Article Incubator|Article Incubator]]</small>
+:Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], don't know if this is related, but something a little weird with news templates: on [[Community action UK#News and comment]] I added in two new items via [[News UK]], and removed the UK location from 2 (older items) via [[News by UK location]], both on Dec 15. For me the new items are showing, but also the two which no longer have the UK as a location (?) Thanks, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 11:01, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
+:Tried again but a third instance, and one item coming up twice. Tried removing this item from [[News by UK location]], but still displaying, if that helps? Have temporarily suspended [[Community action UK#News and comment]], but you can see what the newslist template produces at [[User:Philralph/sandbox2]], [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 10:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
+::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! This is probably an issue with outdated semantic data lingering in the database. I'll try to do a full refresh of the data this week, but let me know if it happens to fix itself before! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:00, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
+:::Multiple listing of same items also found on [[Housing UK news]], [[Scotland news]], and [[Glasgow community action]], plus maybe others not yet discovered? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 12:56, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
+:::Finding others: [[Wales news]], [[Barcelona news]], [[California news]], [[US news]], [[Climate news]] all the examples from when a location removed or changed, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:19, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
+::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! Sorry again for the delay but I think it's fixed now. Let me know of any more issues! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:17, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
+:::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] Fantastic! From a preliminary look all the 2022 stuff looks ok, just one item I tried for 2023: bottom of page on [[User:Philralph/sandbox2]] and [[Extinction Rebellion]] is still repeating. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 14:39, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
+::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hm, soon I'll have to regenerate the data again anyway, so it may fix that. Please let me know if more repetitions appear! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:01, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
+:::::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], OK, thanks. I'm thinking it'd be good to set up the templates on 'main' pages ie [[Community action]], [[Welcome to Appropedia]] and [[Community action UK]] using something that doesn't need updating. Are there 'magic words' which will produce / display current month and current year, and if poss limit display to max 5 items? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:20, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
+::::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi, definitely! I just added a 'limit' parameter to [[Template:Eventlist]]. Also check out the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words available magic words] and see what I did [[Special:Diff/695683|here]] for an example. Let me know if I can be of any help! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:22, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
+:::::::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], Thanks, looks good. I'll have a play. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
+::::::::::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], if [[Template:Newslist]] could include a 'limit' parameter, which would display the, e.g. 5, most recent items, that'd be perfect. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:00, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
+:::::::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Done! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:18, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
+::::::::::::Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], news and event templates seem to have been working as they should for a while now. Thanks for all your help with this. Just one more small thing. Could the 'More Results' button / link be taken off [[Community action]] and [[Community action UK]]? Thanks [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 09:14, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
+:::::::::::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! Glad it's working ok now. I just removed the "More results" button from both [[Template:Newslist]] and [[Template:Eventlist]]. Let me know of any more issues or requests! By the way, soon I'll do some updates to the semantic database so there may be a few hours with incomplete results until it finishes. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:23, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
-'''Archive2''': <small>[[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Advertising?|Advertising?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#NOINDEX tag|NOINDEX tag]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Integrated Systems of Production|Integrated Systems of Production]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Integrated Systems|Integrated Systems]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Interaction and linking between Demotech, design for self-reliance and Appropedia|Interaction and linking between Demotech, design for self-reliance and Appropedia]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#You people are good! Ferreal yall!|You people are good! Ferreal yall!]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#SD wiki sites list|SD wiki sites list]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#David Reber nominated as admin|David Reber nominated as admin]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Adminship - making two levels, and changing the name|Adminship - making two levels, and changing the name]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Usability / Making it accessible for beginners|Usability / Making it accessible for beginners]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Open Green Map|Open Green Map]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#I love it, I love it, I love it :)|I love it, I love it, I love it :)]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Swadeshi Business Models with ecology as business partner|Swadeshi Business Models with ecology as business partner]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Understanding natural systems & choices|Understanding natural systems & choices]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#References|References]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Anonymous editing|Anonymous editing]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Site reorganisation|Site reorganisation]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Comparison of alternative ICE fuels|Comparison of alternative ICE fuels]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Attribution and citation templates|Attribution and citation templates]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Other templates|Other templates]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Water harvesting|Water harvesting]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Open-design software and hardware for water management|Open-design software and hardware for water management]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Good pages on Appropedia? Please nominate!|Good pages on Appropedia? Please nominate!]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Language learning lessons|Language learning lessons]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#AT organisations presentation, category|AT organisations presentation, category]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Logo change|Logo change]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Categorization|Categorization]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Motto|Motto]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#General engineering wiki|General engineering wiki]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#AAI projects|AAI projects]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Development category - name change.|Development category - name change.]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#How is the rich editor?|How is the rich editor?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Welcome committee|Welcome committee]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#windpower pages|windpower pages]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Feedback please! Suggest moving from manual to topic pages|Feedback please! Suggest moving from manual to topic pages]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Imported pages|Imported pages]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Target audience Appropedia + data extrapolations|Target audience Appropedia + data extrapolations]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#CC-BY-SA page changed|CC-BY-SA page changed]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#electric circuit designs for AT|electric circuit designs for AT]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Appropedia page name change assistance for Haiti Relief Project|Appropedia page name change assistance for Haiti Relief Project]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Changes to the navigation sidebar|Changes to the navigation sidebar]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Composting|Composting]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Refridgeration|Refridgeration]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Carbon for water/methanol filtering?|Carbon for water/methanol filtering?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#New front page - please help with images & portals|New front page - please help with images & portals]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#How to create notices - new template|How to create notices - new template]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Dietary reference values image|Dietary reference values image]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Transformers|Transformers]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Wire wrap, strip/perfboard and tubes|Wire wrap, strip/perfboard and tubes]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#FTP server/free file hosting service ?|FTP server/free file hosting service ?]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Cost/effective development aid projects|Cost/effective development aid projects]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#FM radio broadcasts|FM radio broadcasts]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#IC engine efficiency improvements|IC engine efficiency improvements]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#Use of IC-engine without clutch or starter motor|Use of IC-engine without clutch or starter motor]] -- [[Appropedia:Village pump/Archive2#IC-engine simplifications|IC-engine simplifications]]</small>
+== How to comment/respond, here? ==
-Creating all those links seemed like a good idea, but took waaaay longer than planned even with regex search-and-replace. Looking forward to a good forum so this won't be necessary :-). --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 11:05, 13 July 2011 (PDT)
+Hi! How do I comment/respond to these conversations without editing the previous text? Thanks! [[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] ([[User talk:StoriesWitha Will|talk]]) 22:43, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
+:@[[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] Hi! There used to be a handy Reply button next to each comment, but the recent [[#Software update|software update]] caused a bug that prevents it from showing. :-( I just reported it [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:X9zviki367qeczo5 here] and will try to fix it asap. In the meantime, I'm afraid the only way to reply is to edit the page and manually add your comment after the one you want to reply to. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:35, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
+::Thanks! {{Unsigned|StoriesWitha Will}}
+:::@[[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] I managed to fix it, but please let me know if you notice any bugs, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 19:37, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
+::::False alarm, my "fix" caused crashes to non-logged in users so I had to revert. :-( [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 14:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
+:::::@[[User:StoriesWitha Will|StoriesWitha Will]] Now yes, hopefully. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
-== Topics that have been spun off to other pages ==
+== Possible spam? ==
-To keep this page manageable, some bulky topics have been moved to their own pages
-* [[Appropedia:Mission]]
-* [[Appropedia:Anti-Vandalism Measures]]
-* [[Appropedia:Logos]]
-** Includes discussion of subtitles
-* [[Appropedia talk:Technical questions]]
-* [[Appropedia talk:Policy discussion]]
-* [[Appropedia:Copyrights]]
-* [[Main_Page_tests|Main Page prototyping page]]
-* [[Appropedia:Promotion_of_Appropedia|Promotion of Appropedia]]
-* [[Appropedia:Articles to translate]]
-* Past discussions have been moved to [[Appropedia talk:Village pump/Archive]] for easy viewing
+I've reverted a couple of recent edits from [[Special:Contributions/Strategicmarket]], which looked to me like spam. Noticing a couple of others that someone else might like to review? Thanks [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 13:11, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
+:Spam indeed. I just reverted the other edits and blocked the account. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:16, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
+== Automatic wikitext standardization ==
-== Changing another person's project page ==
+Hi! Today I finished developing and deploying the first version of [[mw:Extension:StandardWikitext]], an extension that automatically fixes and standardizes wikitext when saving the page. This has several goals:
-One thing we haven't worked out is what limits we have to editing another person's project or organization page. A trivial example is this line from [[Usui Rice cooker]]:
+* Fix and avoid messy wikitext
+* Fix and avoid some broken wikitext
+* Simplify regular expression search-and-replace
+* Eliminate OCD editing
+* Bring Appropedia up to a new level of excellence
-:This cooker is relevant for any place where rice is a grown and is a staple of the diet (all of Asia, as well as parts of Africa and South America).
+This extension will silently make changes to the wikitext every time you save a page (in the main namespace), so you may be a bit surprised to see changes you didn't make when looking at your own diffs. However, they shouldn't be problematic or controversial, as I made a special effort to be conservative in the standardization rules and to thoroughly test them. Still, if you notice any bugs or issues, please let me know! Kind regards, [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 14:34, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
-I've changed "all of Asia" to "most of Asia," to be more accurate. I don't think the author will mind, though they might think I'm pedantic. My concern is that there will be cases where more controversial changes might be made. Does the project's author have the final say, is it a question of consensus in the same way as any other wiki page, or do we need a different approach. There's a problem if the author has the final say, as the claims may be misled (cars that run on water) or even deliberately misleading (I can sell you a kit to make your car run on water). Perhaps we should go with the "same way as any other wiki page" but be open to letting the policy develop as we go? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 05:52, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
+:Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], I'm trying to edit [[Community involvement UK news/2019]] and [http://Community%20involvement%20UK%20news/2011-2016 Community involvement UK news/2011-2016] but keep getting message: "[ZAtEVnd7hAcFeH50tLBGAwAAAAQ] 2023-03-10 14:53:11: Fatal exception of type "Error"" (?)
-:I think the need for Appropedia to be based on facts should override any ownership objection to minor factual corrections. I'd hesitate to make wholesale edits to someone else's article. As a courtesy, one should leave a note about the change on the "owning" user's talk page, just in case he or she wasn't watching the page in question. Because it would seem the page owner takes credit for the page and would want to be aware of what he or she appears to be saying on it. Think of it like editing a book. Editors assist authors all the time, but never without the author's active awareness. The author has to approve whatever the editor changes, because the author's name goes on the book. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 21:00, 8 January 2011 (PST)
+::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Sorry, fixed. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:02, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
+:::@[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], thanks, all seems fine now, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:19, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
-== Category cleanup ==
+== New Extension:Appropedia ==
-For [[:Category:Locations]], I'm thinking a slightly simpler version of Wikipedia's structure. (If it needs to get more complex later, that's fine, but for now I'm just putting continents straight under Locations, and sticking to, e.g. [[:Category:North America]], rather than having a subcategory [[:Category:North American countries]].)
+Hi! Just wanted to announce that all JavaScript at [[MediaWiki:Common.js]], all CSS at [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], all PHP at LocalSettings.php, and more, has been moved to a [https://github.com/Appropedia/extension custom extension hosted at Appropedia's GitHub repo]. The reasons for the move are explained there. I've done a lot of testing and everything looks good to me but let me know if you notice any new bugs. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:58, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
-Some category names aren't obvious - e.g. [[:Category:Georgia (country)]], since Georgia is also a state of the US (and probably a few lesser-known places too). But we're generally agreed here that following what Wikipedia has settled on is an easy and good path in most things, failing other compelling reasons.
+:This is awesome. Thanks so much! Does this mean that all changes to javascript or CSS have to be done at a different place? [[User:Emilio|Emilio]] ([[User talk:Emilio|talk]]) 15:23, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
+::@[[User:Emilio|Emilio]] Yes, that's the one "downside" in my opinion: changes to JavaScript and CSS should be sent to the Appropedia extension (via a pull request or a direct edit at GitHub) and then "pulled" into Appropedia (by me or anyone with SSH access). However, this extra step also implies better code-review and accountability. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 16:34, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
-Changes I've made include:
+== Advocating more of a presence on, and involvement within and across Hylo ==
-* [[:Category:United States]] rather than [[:Category:USA]].
-* Merging [[:Category:North American countries]] (& deleting it - only had one page in it) to [[:Category:North America]]
-* Editing a lot of pages in [[:Category:Organizations]] to move them to a "sharper" category, i.e. a more specific one.
-Two questions:
+Hi @[[User:Kathy Nativi|Kathy Nativi]], @[[User:Emilio|Emilio]], @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] and @[[User:PedroK|PedroK]]. I've recently been helping The Alternative Global Co-creators network set up groups on [https://www.hylo.com/ Hylo]. Whilst looking around I saw the Appropedia group there, and noticed this was created around a year ago.
-* [[:Category:Organizations based in the United States]] is slightly different in meaning from [[:Category:United States organizations]], but the difference is minor enough (and fuzzy enough) that we probably don't need to worry for now. I prefer the second one for simplicity and being easier to remember - what do you think?
-* "Renewable energy" seems unnecessary as a category, and I think it adds to the category clutter - most of what's on Appropedia is renewable. Better to just have "Energy," that can include everything, to be described and assessed on their own merits. Is it ok if I remove [[:Category:Renewable energy]]?
-I'll keep plugging away at this, using Pywikipediabot to make the category moves easier, and to do the text replace for putting things in more specific categories. (I manually check each edit.) I want to deal with the glaring errors for now, at least.
+One of the reasons I advocated Hylo for The Alternative was that it might be described as a values aligned platform. But also looking around more recently I've been finding great discussions and perhaps a more impressive range of groups there. I've particularly enjoyed reading discussions to do with Bioregionalism, but also for example "How do we respond to / engage with ChatGPT?" I'd love to know what you guys think about this. Also do you know for example of any bioregional initiatives in the Majority World?
-Any other big category cleanups that need doing? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 12:15, 27 April 2011 (PDT)
+I notice the group is
-:I agree on your proposed merge of [[:Category:United States organizations]].
+Public - Anyone can find and see this group &
-:I would prefer to keep [[:Category:Renewable energy]] because articles about non-renewable energy could be useful to Appropedia's mission to promote sustainability, for example by documenting the extent to which various non-renewable energy sources are not sustainable. How does coal compare to tar sands and shale gas, for example? Issues like carbon accounting, life cycle analysis, and peak oil are likely to impact on Appropedia's users. As will the merging of the food and fuel markets (when the price of oil rises, the price of food rises too now). Most if not all of Appropedia's users probably have a foot planted in each world, as we probably all burn some fossil fuels directly or indirectly. Petroleum-fueled travel and appropriate technology seem to go together like conjoined twins. If the appropriate technology agenda depends on the continued availability of cheap petroleum, we should document the extent of it, if only to consider what happens when petroleum is no longer cheap. Will the appropriate technology enterprise survive if long-distance travel is no longer a possibility for most people? --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 14:43, 6 May 2011 (PDT)
+Open - Anyone who can see this group can join, so seems to me a good place to be sharing our news with a probably quite receptive audience? There were 4 members of the group so far, that's with hardly any content yet.
-== Correspondence with Volunteers in Technical Assistance ==
+I'd be happy to maybe share some content to the Appropedia group if this would help? But kind of feel it'd be great to have your voices there, and across Hylo.
+Best wishes, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 17:12, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
+:More on Hylo's vision & plans for 2023: "[https://medium.com/terran-collective/co-evolving-technology-and-a-culture-of-stewardship-our-plans-for-hylo-beacb4fdb3ee Co-evolving technology and a culture of stewardship: Our plans for Hylo]", Clare Politano, Nov 28, 2022, 7 min read, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 07:11, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
+::Hi @[[User:Philralph|Philralph]], Thanks. Here is there newest 2023 update - https://medium.com/terran-collective/together-we-flourish-celebrating-hylos-community-and-collaborations-in-2023-df88733109a7. I am excited to learn more about how they will self fund to maintain their project and hope ot check it out this year. [[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 00:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
-Appropedia has a lot of information from [[Volunteers in Technical Assistance]]. I recently contacted Enterprise Works which is the current name for VITA to try and clarify the license for these and see if their content could be released under the CC-BY-SA license. They replied by asking about the permission under which this content got reposted on Appropedia. The correspondence is posted at [[Talk:Volunteers_in_Technical_Assistance]].
+== Advice request re categories ==
-I understand all this content is transferred from Alex Weir's CD3WD CDOM and also from some microfiche. Can anyone point me to the permission applying here? I will copy any definite info to the VITA talk page so we have a record there.--[[User:Joe Raftery|Joe Raftery]] 16:15, 29 April 2011 (PDT)
+Hi, I've recently setup a new portal page on [[Community action|CASwiki]]: [[Community action London]] (UK), and several spin off pages. It'd be nice to include a map in the portal page, but showing only London UK pages. The present [[:Category:London]] includes several pages showing on the map in London, Ontario, for example. To do this I thought of changing all the London UK type pages to [[:Category:London UK]], but just wanting to check if there might be a better solution? Thanks [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 14:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
+:I just realised that putting in a United Kingdom location parameter in the map template might help, but a lot of the London Boroughs might not locate easily or accurately because the names are sometimes artificial constructs rather than actual place names (?) [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:00, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
-:We inherited the content in a merger, and while we were told we had permission, we weren't given evidence. I put on the {{tl|open access}} tags, to make it clear that we didn't have clear permission under our license... and to stop people contributing to those pages, when we weren't sure of having permission to modify.
+== Problem with the rules and request for page topics of interest ==
-:Either permission was given casually by someone at VITA (an email or phone call) or, most likely, someone from the earlier project saw VITA content reproduced openly elsewhere, and assumed it was ok to use.
+The following message is for the board of directors, and I do mention an article that Chris Watkins wrote so I would love feedback directly from you, Chris Watkins, if possible.
-:I'm not sure of Alex Weir's exact permission, but I'm sure someone at VITA would have given him permission to use the info on his CDs. That doesn't automatically mean we can use it.
+I really love the vision and purpose of the site. I think it’s really cool to have a wiki dedicated to sustainability, and especially having it be a place that allows original research and how-to’s. I’d love to contribute that kind of material to the site and make new pages for topics that haven’t been covered.
-:I look forward to having this sorted out. While I'd like us to be able to keep the content on Appropedia (even open it up as CC-BY-SA), we will do the right thing legally and ethically.
+However, I did find some concerning material.
+On the “Neutral Point of View” page, I found that rule 1 said that Appropedia is not a site for soapboxing. I do understand why this is important, and I have found that many people who use this kind of language have conservative viewpoints and tend to soapbox about it.
+I have developed a method to both avoid soapboxing and conservatism, however I found some content on other pages that made me feel uncomfortable participating in the project and I imagine others have found the information and felt the same.
-:Thanks for taking this up. I've emailed you with a few details. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 21:38, 1 May 2011 (PDT)
+I also noticed that on rule 1 it said that current administrations should not be admonished. While I agree that complaining is not helpful in the development of solutions, the only possible way to develop an effective solution is to first identify the problem. It would be really important for people who make pages about solutions to be able to start their page by laying out the problem, including its political causes down to political policies, groups, politicians, and administrations. Governments have a huge responsibility and role in sustainable development.
-::As we don't seem to have permission I phoned them today to see what I could work out. See the discussion on [[Talk:Volunteers in Technical Assistance]] and the rewritw of the [[Volunteers in Technical Assistance]] page.
+Rule 1 also said “Use some other site for dissin da man”. I tried looking up the definition of “dissin the man” but could not find anything about it. Could you please explain what it means?
-::I have agreed to add <nowiki>{{Template:VITA}}</nowiki> to pages with their content for now.
+The page on poverty appeared to be soapboxing conservative viewpoints. There was too much to address everything, I’ll highlight the most problematic piece:
-{{Template:VITA}}
-::They have agreed to think about their licensing strategy and come back to us on this sometime in the next few weeks/months.--[[User:Joe Raftery|Joe Raftery]] 14:33, 3 May 2011 (PDT)
+ “colonialism has in fact improved the local economy”. Then in response to colonial powers selling people and precious minerals it was said that because the area was not being mined, “ it can hardly be said that they sold anything that wasn't theirs to sell.”
-== reCPATCHA for account registration? ==
+This viewpoint seems to be pro-slavery and justifies murder, forced labor and r@pe for the purpose of stealing resources.
-I've noticed that there's a lot of discussion about the number of spam accounts being created. Would it be possible to stop this using a better captcha? There are two (simple looking) extensions for this. https://code.google.com/apis/recaptcha/docs/mediawiki.html and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ReCAPTCHA . The first seems to be more what would be needed. It forces users to complete a captcha for new accounts and anonymous edits with external links. --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 11:22, 2 May 2011 (PDT)
+This was written in 2008. I do understand that the world was a little different back then. However I am concerned that since then it has not been removed. I am also curious as to what your current stances are.
-:We'd love help with this. For at least some of the extensions, work needs to be done with image libraries, and that's what's held us back.
+I would love to contribute to this site, but do not feel like I can unless:
+There is a clear statement of disapproval for colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology as all three break the rule of soapboxing and both prevent sustainable development and destabilize developed countries.
+There is a clear invitation for people to work on sustainable development goals 1, 5, and 16 with a list of pages that there is interest in having information on to break the ice and for people to not have concerns that their work will be rejected for not conforming or catering to conservative ideology.
-:If you're interested, you could help test out one or more [[mw:Category:Spam_management_extensions|anti-spam extensions]] on the [http://cotw.cc/wiki/ Coalition of the Willing wiki] - I'm involved there, and they need help. Then on our own dev wiki, before going live. (Or start on the dev wiki, but it will be more interesting to work on a live wiki that's currently under a spam attack.) That would be fantastic.
+Thank you. {{unsigned|Star}}
-:Btw, I just discovered that [[mw:Extension:AkismetKlik|Akismet]] is available for MediaWiki - that and Bad Behavior (which I often suggest) are potentially very valuable tools, as long as false positives don't create a bad experience for affected users. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 23:08, 2 May 2011 (PDT)
+: Hi {{Re|Star}}. We didn't reply to this message before, but I wanted to let you know that we created a couple of templates to mark [[Template:Topic notice|topic pages]] and [[Template:Essay notice|original research]], asking other readers for any feedback. This is in response to your feedback, so thank you! —[[User:Emilio|Emilio]] ([[User talk:Emilio|talk]]) 05:33, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
-:: Are there many unregistered edits that are spammy? It seems a lot of the spam comes from accounts made by a spam bot. I'm gonna try on the devwiki first just because I have little experience with installing extensions and I'd rather not mess up a live wiki. [[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 07:46, 3 May 2011 (PDT)
+:Hi Star and thanks for the message!
+:Wow, we missed that article when we were cleaning up a few years ago 😱 – thanks for pointing it out. That doesn't represent what Appropedia stands for, or stood for at any point in the past. We will do something about that promptly.
+:(We had a large number of contributions that didn't align with our values, and we removed a lot of pages and edits afterwards. This should have been a part of that but we missed it. There was a lot of time before that where we were trying to come to an understanding, and in hindsight we would have been more direct and set stronger boundaries.)
+:Re "soapboxing": I think you understand this, but we don't want this to be a place for political arguments and culture wars. (I recall we also wanted to protect our 501(c)3 status for tax exempt donations in the US.) ''But'' we do have values and we do allow for discussing and analysing policies.
+:So as long as we aren't explicitly attacking or endorsing parties or candidates, it should be fine. And as long as we're generally focusing on actions and policies rather than people and groups. (But other directors or our ED who are more up-to-date on this may want to clarify.)
+:At the same time I don't feel any need to hide my own involvement in volunteering for environmentally oriented political parties and NVDA (Nonviolent Direct Action) activist groups. (Minor involvements, but just to illustrate the point.) And our user pages I'm more of a personal expression, so there's more leeway there for expressing our own POV.
+:(Re the definition of “dissin the man” – I understand it as colloquial American English for actively disrespecting/attacking (dissing) authorities. We'd be open to changing the language, which was perhaps never meant to last this long in that exact form. We don't want to seem like we intend to stay silent about policies and actions that go against our values.)
+:Re colonialism, anti-feminism, and conservative ideology – without defining terms and giving a complete, nuanced answer, I'll say that we are not here to defend or make space for any ideology with a history of harm, exploitation and repression.
+:It's also natural that there will be some political differences here. People to our political left and right, but who we can work with on common ground.
+:Also, I think most of the real value Appropedia has created so far is in sharing specific technologies and solutions, rather than in broad topic pages. And there isn't a lot of politics to discuss on a page about the specifics of reed bed filtration or a type of photovoltaic cell.
+:Thanks again! You've prompted an active conversation. And we look forward to learning how you're interested in being involved. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] ([[User talk:Chriswaterguy|talk]]) 00:49, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
+::Thank you for replying.
+::Wow! That’s wild so many people put edits like that. It’s unfortunate people put information that goes against the site’s values like that but I can’t say I’m surprised, I’ve heard other organizations struggle with similar issues.
+::I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16 which I see you have a shortage of pages about. I want to write about both on solutions individuals can work on as well as the systemic changes that would need to happen to realistically achieve the sustainable development goals, I intend to write very specifically and not be broad about it. I absolutely agree that focusing on actions and policies are more important as groups and people often morph, change, and exist in gray areas that can not be judged as good or bad. I intend to write as apolitically as possible, and understand that discussing these topics apolitically will appear leftist to some on the U.S. right, and I will only find common ground with the large majority of the population that is willing to find common ground and not the minority that has demonstrated no interest in doing so. Again I’m sure you agree but am restating as I have met people in the past who misused the idea of common ground.
+::Please let me know if you can clarify the stance on political topics. I know government restrictions on funding can be a big pain point when it comes to talking politics in nonprofits. I would like to have some clear cut boundaries to guide the pages, and would likely post this on the page so those interested in working on those pages as well know what the expectations are.
+::A sample we could start off with could be:
+::-use evidence-based information that can be sourced as much as possible
+::-discuss the actions and policies of a group or person rather than sharing opinions or arguments. When discussing solutions, again keep it focused on actions and policies. Be as specific as possible.
+::And then later once I’ve written some more stuff I could provide some examples.
+::Regarding sustainability, there is plenty of politics to discuss as governments and those in power have a much larger responsibility and impact to implement solutions than what individuals can accomplish, and it must be done urgently considering the stage we are at in climate change and society.
+::By only focusing on solutions for individuals to work on rather than systemic change, it leads to a situation where meaningful progress is not accomplished and individuals are blamed for not making lifestyle changes when they did not have the ability to do so due to economic conditions they had no control over, and the role and responsibility of corporations and government regarding sustainability is ignored. Years from now when the world is in a much worse place environmentally I have no doubt historians will look back and be disappointed we avoided discussing the realistic solutions necessary to achieve sustainability because people believed there wasn’t much politics to discuss. In addition, sustainability can not be achieved without the full equality, participation, and opportunity of women and the working class.
+::I was interested in a clear invitation to work on goals 1, 5, and 16 as well as sample topics as there have been many times I have encountered people in the nonprofit realm who spoke politely to keep up reputation and appearances and had no problem undermining the work of both volunteers and employees in their organization, as it is a common symptom of the non-profit industrial complex. If you do not know sample topics off the top of your head I could share some sample topics and you can let me know if it’s something that is in line with the vision of the site. [[User:Star|Star]] ([[User talk:Star|talk]]) 05:50, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
+:::Hi, @[[User:Star|Star]], I'm not involved with the board but hope you don't mind if I throw in my 2p's worth.
+:::Although you mention individuals, governments and those in power and systemic change, I'm missing any sense that you see value in the power of, and agency of community action? From my perspective, and many across networks I'm involved with: UK, but also Europe and majority world, seen as very different from "the non-profit industrial complex", or "nonprofit realm", being often networks or loose affiliations rather than organisations, and often hugely under-resourced, in conventional terms compared to the three other 'sectors'.
+:::I set up CASwiki some 19 yrs ago as an attempt to shift the balance even if just a tiny bit. CASwiki is a wiki within a wiki here on Appropedia. So for example [[Community action|CASwiki]] has a page on '[[Social inclusion]]', which as the intro points out straightaway "used here includes economic inclusion or fairness", and includes just the bare beginnings of some suggested Community Action Projects.
+:::As you mention participation, an issue with the SDGs is the extent to which there was pluralistic enough participation in their design. So they might be seen as more of an institutional agenda rather than a peoples agenda. A peoples agenda might have preferred to name SGD16, as peace, justice and strong communities, for example. Best wishes [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 12:37, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
+::::I do believe community action is important. I have tried and been unable to gain traction for multiple community action projects in my area so I understand being under-resourced first-hand. Even though I am no longer doing work in that area I have interest in sharing resources for those that do have interest, including personalized community action project ideas and referrals to existing projects specific to each SDG, especially since a big struggle regarding being under resourced is poor advertizing, as people who want to help rarely reach organizations designed to do so. Thank you for sharing CASwiki, it looks closer to the type of work I am interested in.
+::::A people's agenda would have preferred tangible action opposed to hyper-focusing on language, doing the later is one of the manifestations of the non-profit industrial complex, as well as one of the key points in the CIA's Simple Sabotoge Field Manual, A Timeless Guide to Subverting Any Organization with "Purposeful Stupidity" (1944).
+::::Out of the over 160 SDG sub-goals, many address strong communities so arguing that a word in a title should have been changed is a waste of time. Any additional language that does not meet standards of perfection is canceled by the basic and specific concepts of human rights and sustainability.
+::::Again, I am interested in contributing information on solutions for the sustainable development goals, particularly goals 1, 5, and 16, with information on systemic change and what organizations and individuals can do. Please let me know what the boundaries are regarding topics and political information. I would also love to discuss the boundaries of CASwiki regarding where information should be added directly versus linked. Thank you. [[User:Star|Star]] ([[User talk:Star|talk]]) 02:22, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
+:::::Hi, @[[User:Star|Star]], it's interesting how language can sometimes perhaps, even if inadvertently, divide. For example I don't think I'm understanding your use of the word 'advertising'? But I'm still inclined to think strong communities have a role to play in helping people who want to help find the opportunities to do so, especially when at least some of them might exist within the agency of the community itself.
+:::::Of course many of us might wish for "tangible action", but if you're suggesting that that and a concern for language are mutually exclusive, I'm afraid I'd have to disagree. I do think wording and language is important because of the way it affects the distribution of resources and so either reinforces or challenges existing power imbalances.
+:::::Talking of manifestations, surely one of the biggest wins for the beneficiaries of existing power imbalances, is when any of us chooses to give our emotional energy to that which might divide us rather than that which we have in common? Of course there's no attachment to the idea of perfection in language, and we need to feel free to challenge each other from time to time, but we can do so in ways which feel respectful to both parties however much we may have an attachment to the idea of plain speaking.
+:::::That's enough for one post. How are we doing with regard to the above? Any problems with any of that? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 11:16, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
+::::::The reply button is being buggy. This is Star. I was not suggesting that tangible action and language is mutually exclusive, but rather that you focus on it in a manner that resembles the sabotage of tangible action.
+::::::I have a problem with the fact that you doubled down on your hyperfocus of the title instead of asking which of the over 160 SDG goals relate to community action or doing the research yourself. I do have a problem with the fact that you did not respond to my request for informational boundaries regarding political information and where information would be best located, which I have asked for three times at this point.
+::::::Division is a very small win for existing power imbalances in comparison to neglect. I am bothered that this site has existed for as long as it has, yet is so undeveloped. Considering how many people care deeply about sustainability, it is strange to me how empty this site appears. If someone could please explain that, it would help a lot. I feel like respect is an arbitrary cultural standard that is often at odds with both what is morally right and the dismantling of power imbalances. Regarding both parties feeling respected, I feel disrespected that this planet is dying, as well as millions of people, this sustainability project has significant portions of undeveloped content, and you are asking me to agree with your criticism of a title of a work of which you have not analyzed the contents. {{Unsigned|Star|19:00, 13 May 2023}}
-:::Spam bots on wikis always register first - that's the pattern in recent months. Occasional spam will come from IPs.
+== Possible development of event templates ==
-:::Btw, there may be useful info here: [[mw:Category:Spam_management_extensions]] and [[mw:Manual:Combating_spam]]. Also, the [http://cotw.cc/wiki/ Coalition of the Willing wiki] just had Bad Behavior installed, so we'll see how that goes. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:58, 3 May 2011 (PDT)
+Hi {{@|Sophivorus}}, I've been thinking about how to make more and better use of the event templates: [[Template:Event]] and [[Template:Eventlist]]. The basic design seems to work quite well, but it'd be cool to be able to display an area's events within a context of events for other areas, (Cosmolocal calendars?).
-::::I took a look at both of those pages, pretty good resources. [[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 14:20, 3 May 2011 (PDT)
+A simple example / mock up here [[User:Philralph/sandbox]] displays the local (only) dates in bold (in this case the UK). More complex examples would include a city plus national plus international events. The display on [[Community action London]] currently is of one London event, plus other UK events. I'd guess up to 5 areas (displayed) would allow a lot of flexibility, so for example a local area, it's city, region, country and international, but also the possibility of a local area and up to 4 other neighbouring or nearby communities.
-::::So it seems that the dev wiki (and thus the main wiki) is unable to use the basic recaptcha extension because it conflicts with ConfirmEdit. The more recent versions of ConfirmEdit contain code for reCAPTCHA, but it's only available for mediawiki 1.16 which the dev wiki is not. Would it be a good idea to upgrade the dev wiki to 1.16? In the end I enabled MathCaptcha on the dev wiki. It's the same as the default, only the question is presented in an image instead of as plaintext. --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 14:20, 3 May 2011 (PDT)
+Then there'd be a need to identify/display the different locations in a combined list, maybe something like
-:::::I guess reCAPTCHA would be an alternative to ConfirmEdit, so ConfirmEdit should be disabled? The approach you've taken is interesting, and probably very effective.
+* Local event (dates in bold)
+* City event, (London)
+* National event (UK)
+* (all others) International days, etc.
-:::::At some point we'll need to decide whether we want people to figure out simple math (ok for most people, but some people are blind to mathematics - dyscalculia) or work out an image. Another option that would probably work for a short time is something like "enter the word '''wiki'''" or "What color is the sky?" - I've seen that work on other sites. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 05:01, 4 May 2011 (PDT)
+I'm only just starting on this, so might not be able to test things out very much for a while. Probably test out event listings for near me to start with. And/or have the context/other areas display switchable, on or off? What do you think? Cheers, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 07:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
-::::::Actually I think using an upgraded version of ConfirmEdit would be best. It can be setup to ask simple questions from a file like the questions you mentioned. I like reCAPTCHA because it's the most advanced captcha and it has the option for audio captcha should the person trying to setup an account be blind.
+:Hi {{@|Sophivorus}}, I'm now preferring a much clearer design using existing templates, so nothing further needed, thanks. Examples at [[Malling community action#Events|Malling]], [[Community action London#Events|London]] and [[Community action UK#Events|UK]], [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 08:03, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
+::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! It looks super neat, good solution! I'm glad you managed it, and sorry I wasn't able to help on time. Let me know of any further issues or requests and I'll try to do better, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 11:59, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
-::::::As for people who have trouble with captchas, I took a look at wikipedia's solution and they have a form you can fill out to request an account. I'm guessing that a human takes a look at the requests and decides whether or not to create new accounts. --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 10:14, 4 May 2011 (PDT)
+== help has been destroyed ==
-:::::::Yes, having a human review account requests (e.g. "Summarize what you want to do on Appropedia") might be the most effective CAPTCHA method short of meeting a human in real life. The main drawback is that it is slow and creates some labor cost. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 14:46, 6 May 2011 (PDT)
-::::::::I'm not suggesting that all accounts be vetted by humans, but I think there should be the option to fill out a form for those who can't complete the captcha process --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 11:10, 7 May 2011 (PDT)
-{{undent}} I think the number of people who would need help would be small, esp if we use reCaptcha with its audio option. So the ideal solution, I think, is:
-* reCaptcha (scrapping ConfirmEdit if it gets in the way - it's done well for us, but no problem with changing), with...
-* an option for vetted registration (keeping it simple but spam proof)
-Don't worry too much about the ideal, though - let's take it step by step. And this is just my take on it.
-Update on Bad Behavior - using it on its own on cotw.cc hasn't helped. That would be a good place to try reCaptcha (after it's within on the dev wiki). Wesley, I've put you in touch by email with Michael Maranda, who oversees tech work on cotw.cc. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 21:03, 7 May 2011 (PDT)
+Please reinstate the help pages so they can be directly linked to the menu on the left - [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 13:56, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
-== Skin help ==
+:@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hi! Do you mean linking to [[Help:Contents]] like before, rather than [[:Category:Appropedia help]]? I just changed it back, check it out and let me know if it's ok now, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:06, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
-Hello all
+== Search non functional? ==
-Not sure if this is the right section, but I figure the people I need are probably watching this page. I'm trying to get a copy of Appropedia's skin working on my own wiki for development purposes but I just can't seem to manage it. I've copied all the files in the mediawiki Skins folder I still get the default skin. Where on earth is Appropedia's skin hiding? --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 13:05, 12 May 2011 (PDT)
+"An error has occurred while searching: We could not complete your search due to a temporary problem. Please try again later."
-:Sorry I can't be more helpful... but I assume it's the same as in any MediaWiki installation, so  #mediawiki on freenode will probably be helpful? I've found it useful at times.
-:Re where to post, I think [[Appropedia talk:Tech intern team]] is best - but you can always place a pointer to the question on this page, especially while the tech intern team page is still gearing up. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 08:55, 17 May 2011 (PDT)
-::I've answered my own question. You can create a page called MediaWiki:SkinName.css and it will apply any css to SkinName. Appropedia and the dev wiki both have one setup for monobook. --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 13:25, 18 May 2011 (PDT)
-:::Ah, I should have known that. Glad you found it! --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 21:35, 18 May 2011 (PDT)
-== Topical navboxes ==
+Hello, does anyone know why I'm getting this message? Thanks, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 11:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
-{{Navboxes
+:Me, too. Several days with Search Function not working, and this is interfering with my ability to work on several additions to pages I am working on. I have sent emails multiple times, but still zero response. What is happening? Is there any way that users can help to resolve this issue/problem? [[User:TomStanton|TomStanton]] ([[User talk:TomStanton|talk]]) 17:35, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
-|title       = I wonder what's in this navbox
+::You can try searching with a search engine of your choice like so: appropedia + (page name).
-|state       = uncollapsed
+::Just a temporary workaround of course. Hope someone can fix this, thank you [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 17:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
-|liststyle   = padding:2px;font-size:111%;text-align:left;
+:::Thank you for that idea about how to use other search engines. In the meantime, no sooner did I indicate the problem was continuing, and it seems to have fixed itself. Thank you to whomever made this work again. [[User:TomStanton|TomStanton]] ([[User talk:TomStanton|talk]]) 18:12, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
-|list        =
+::::Hello! Thank you Tom and Moribund for your alert and attention to this. We think it has been resolved and our backend crew is keeping their eyes on it. With appreciation to you for this and your years of engagement and impact! --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 23:27, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
-I started trying out how the {{tl|navbox}} and {{tl|navboxes}} templates can be used to help organize the Appropedia content pages.  I made a simple example first.
+:::::Also thank you @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]]! [[User:Lonny|Lonny]] ([[User talk:Lonny|talk]]) 23:29, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
-{{Appropriate living manual navbox|state=uncollapsed}}
+:::::Thanks, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 12:29, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
-I also made a couple of high-level, topical navboxes.
+== addition of links to youtube videos advertising paid courses ==
-{{Solar navbox}}
-{{Water navbox}}
-Then I made {{tl|navboxes}}, that can be used to hold any number of self-contained {{tl|navbox}} (''or any other'') transcluded pages, or simply new content like this.  I added the following example to the bottom of the [[Appropedia:CategoryTree]] page.
+Hello, just wanted to ask if these kind of contributions: [[Special:Contributions/27.99.93.37]] are welcome or not? Thank you
-{{Navboxes
-  |state = uncollapsed
-  |list  = {{Solar navbox}} {{Water navbox}}
-}}
-At this point, I'd like to know what other Appropedia folks think about this contents organization approach.  In particular, what other specific navboxes would you like me to start?  At least for now, probably the best way to let me know what you would like to see is to name a category that has an article by the same (or practically same) name. I then would try out a first cut at a navbox and put it in template space. Also think about how you might like to build up groups of navboxes that can be used independently or arranged together, like the solar and water navboxes above. For example, I'm thinking "Energy topics" would be a collection of more specific navboxes that included "Solar topics."
+I already removed one such link from [[forest gardening]], because I watched the video and it was not really connected with the topic. Overall, the link seemed to be advertising in nature and did not add anything to the article, so I decided to remove it. Thoughts? [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 08:33, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
-I'm willing to try out just about anything, so let 'er fly.  After all, this is a wiki and you can fix what I goof up!  ;-) --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 12:33, 17 May 2011 (PDT)
+:@[[User:Moribund|Moribund]] Looking lightly at the user contributions, I think they are sparse and varied enough to be acceptable. However, regarding the particular link and page you mention, since you're the main author and you actually watched the video and considered it not relevant, I support your removal 100%. [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 19:07, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
-}}
-Do you think a more obvious "[show]" link would be good? (E.g. bold, but bigger font or CAPS are possible.) If someone is scanning the page and hasn't seen one nefore, they won't realize there's something to be unlocked :). Other than that, looks good and I'll keep thinking. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 12:44, 17 May 2011 (PDT)
+== Lots of video embeds not showing ==
-:This appears to be the applicable code in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to bold the show/hide button.
+Hi all, think I've been seeing this for a little while now. Some videos look fine, others not showing (?) examples at [[Scotland community action]], [[Reduce, reuse, repair and recycle UK]], [[India community action]]. Thanks for any help with this, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 17:55, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
-{{Navboxes
-|title       = Lots of code hiding in this box
-|liststyle   = padding:2px;font-size:111%;text-align:left;
-|list        =
-<pre>
+:@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! The issue was due to a change I had to do to [[Template:Video]]. Apologies, I just fixed it, though it may take a few hours to propagate through the entire site. Thanks for the report! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 19:03, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
-table.collapsed tr.collapsable {
-	display: none;
-}
-.collapseButton {          /* 'show'/'hide' buttons created dynamically */
+== Distorted Excerpts ==
-    float: right;          /* by the CollapsibleTables javascript in    */
-    font-weight: normal;   /* [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]are styled here    */
-    text-align: right;     /* so they can be customised.                */
-    width: auto;
-}
-.navbox .collapseButton {  /* In navboxes, the show/hide button balances */
-    width: 6em;            /* the vde links from [[Template:Tnavbar]],   */
-}
-</pre>
-Changing the labels to all caps appears to be in [[MediaWiki:Common.js]]
+Is there a way to include all of the Excerpt section from another page without having it summarized and shrunk? -- [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 20:09, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
-<pre>
-/** Collapsible tables *********************************************************
+:@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hi! Do you mean without the surrounding card? If so, then I just added a parameter <code>card</code> to [[Template:Excerpt]] that, when set to <code>card=no</code>, will hide the card. Will this do? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 20:28, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
- *
+::Yes that works - thanks! [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 14:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
- *  Description: Allows tables to be collapsed, showing only the header. See
- *			   http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Collapsible_tables.
- *  Maintainers: [[en:User:R. Koot]]
- */
-var autoCollapse = 2;
-var collapseCaption = 'hide';
-var expandCaption = 'show';
-function collapseTable( tableIndex ) {
-	var Button = document.getElementById( 'collapseButton' + tableIndex );
-	var Table = document.getElementById( 'collapsibleTable' + tableIndex );
-	if ( !Table || !Button ) {
-		return false;
-	}
-	var Rows = Table.rows;
-	if ( Button.firstChild.data == collapseCaption ) {
-		for ( var i = 1; i < Rows.length; i++ ) {
-			Rows[i].style.display = 'none';
-		}
-		Button.firstChild.data = expandCaption;
-	} else {
-		for ( var i = 1; i < Rows.length; i++ ) {
-			Rows[i].style.display = Rows[0].style.display;
-		}
-		Button.firstChild.data = collapseCaption;
-	}
-</pre>
-}}
---[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 13:41, 17 May 2011 (PDT)
-:Also keep in mind the default "state" of a navbox is "autocollapse", which means the box is "uncollapsed" when by itself on a page. It's also possible to force a box to be uncollapsed, regardless of what's on the page. The original outer box was uncollapsed.  I also changed two more of the above boxes to be uncollapsed, a totally likely way boxes like them would be seen on a page.  The more navboxes out there, the more accustomed readers will be to expecting a body below the title, regardless of the original state they see. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 19:16, 17 May 2011 (PDT)
+== My cel not open with any network bicuse is pta cod problem i m forner then come back in her pakistan plz have any idia plz send me or help me ==
-::Thanks - for now, I've edited the collapseButton in [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to "font-weight: bold". Does that look ok? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 22:12, 18 May 2011 (PDT)
+Pls solve my cel network sim manigmint bicuse i m open any id for gmail but not conect id plz [[User:Mohsin Elahi|Mohsin Elahi]] ([[User talk:Mohsin Elahi|talk]]) 12:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
-:::That looks fine to me.  I would say it definitely helps with noticability. What might help even more would be having a navbox or two at the bottom of every article. ;-) [[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 05:33, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
+:Anyone understands this? It seems like a bug report? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 12:48, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
+:@[[User:Mohsin Elahi|Mohsin Elahi]] Can you use https://translate.google.com to translate your message? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
+:Hi, can you explain what the specific problem is? Thanks! [[User:Emilio|Emilio]] ([[User talk:Emilio|talk]]) 17:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
-::::A navbox or two at the bottom of every article might be a very good thing... that's where  [[Appropedia:AutoWikiBrowser|AutoWikiBrowser]] or a [[Appropedia:Bots|bot]] could be very, very handy, for semi-automated adding to each article in a category (i.e. it prompts y/n for each page). --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 13:32, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
+== videos in gallery ==
-:::::Yes, I made a few thousand Wikipedia AWB edits during The Great Userbox Migration. ;-)  In this case however, the ''real'' work is in making the topical navboxes in the first place. The critical task is deciding what should be in and what should not be in the box.  It's easy enough for me to start a basic box outline with title articles from a category and its subcategories. The tricky part for me is deciding the best starter topics.  None of the [[User:RichardF#High-level heirarchical classifications|main top-level navigation structures]] I've seen around here totally agree with each other. After that, my experience has been I can add the template from page to page simply by clicking the next link in the box. And that goes faster than AWB would allow me to go because of the enforced time delay between edits. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 16:56, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
+Is it possible to do videos in a gallery? [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 18:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
-== Participation and navigation templates ==
+:@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hmm, do you mean having [[Template:Video]] inside a <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> tag? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 18:27, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
+::Yes - or some other way to use the template video to get lots of videos clumped together instead of one at a time vertically - [[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua Pearce]] ([[User talk:J.M.Pearce|talk]]) 20:08, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
+:::@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] No current way to do that, I'm afraid. However, I have an idea. I'll implement it next week and let you know! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 20:16, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
-[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] has been doing some work with navboxes on various topics, which is great. This got me thinking - I'd love to see improvements in the templates we use for basic navigation and helping people to participate. See {{cl|Request participation templates}} & {{cl|Navigation templates}} (& please add other relevant templates to those categories if they've been missed). I've done some, but I'd like for others to have a go at it.
+@[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]] Hi! How about using [[Template:Video]] inside a <nowiki><div class="grid"></nowiki>, like so:
-My idea is to have, on every category page:
+<div class="grid">
-* a {{tl|cat header}}, or something similar
-* a very compact but clear template helping people to create a new page, perhaps merged into the cat header. That's actually a complex thing to do well - e.g. if we offer a prefilled page, it'll be different for projects, topic pages and organizations.
-If there's any largescale cleanup to be done (removing or changing tempates on many pages) - [[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] and I both have a bot that can help. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 12:38, 17 May 2011 (PDT)
+{{Video|PsP5IJT77fU}}
-:Hi Chris. Your idea about "a very compact but clear template helping people to create a new [category] page" reminds me of the  [[Wikipedia:Portal/Instructions]], "To create a new portal on the topic "Topic" using the {{[[Wikipedia:box portal skeleton]]}} template follow these steps:".
+{{Video|v5CdNH3sQT0}}
-:I like the part about offering a set of structured page layout creation templates.  The part I find "incongruous" from my Wikipedia experiences is the Appropedia category pages look a lot like stylized article, portal or contents pages.  My personal preference is for category pages to be minimalist in terms of "extras."  What you're thinking about for category pages might be what I would think about as being more applicable to those other types of pages.
-:The vast majority of my editing at Wikipedia has been around designing portals (e.g., [[Wikipedia:Portal:Cats|Cats]], [[Wikipedia:Portal:Dogs|Dogs]], [[Wikipedia:Portal:Education|Education]], [[Wikipedia:Portal:Indiana|Indiana]], [[Wikipedia:Portal:Philosophy of science|Philosophy of science]], [[Wikipedia:Portal:Psychology|Psychology]], [[Wikipedia:Portal:Science|Science]], [[Wikipedia:Portal:Sustainable development|Sustainable development]], [[Wikipedia:Portal:Religion|Religion]] and [[Wikipedia:Portal:United States|United States]]), plus the [[Wikipedia:Portal:Contents|Contents]] page layouts by [[Wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Types layout|Type]] and [[Wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Topics layout|Topic]]. I also designed the [[Kivapedia:Main Page]] tabbed layouts.
+{{Video|bPoOvy3elD8}}
-:I'm willing to work on a high-level contents/portal navigation system here as well.  Along those lines, my personal preference is to put category info into contents/portal pages, rather than the other way around. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 14:22, 17 May 2011 (PDT)
+{{Video|WrSyqGBL5a4}}
-::I was thinking more of helping people to create a new page in the category page they're viewing - like {{tl|Newpageresource}} only much more compact while still being clear. But helping people to create all kinds of pages is good, and there's a lot that could be adapted from Wikipedia.
+{{Video|8CLRTa_ocmo}}
-::Re "Appropedia category pages look a lot like stylized article, portal or contents pages." There's been a policy shift on this (from one informal policy to another) and such categories mostly should be moved very soon. Moving categories with history intact is a bit of work - I've done some and planned to do a bunch more around now, but had my laptop stolen, including that work in progress. So I'm going to check my backups for old versions (& I have a couple of old working pages ([[User:Chriswaterguy/moving category page content with history|here]] & [[User:Chriswaterguy/moving category page content with history - list 2|here]]).
+{{Video|431803145}}
-::Make sure you check what [[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] is up to - he's done a lot of template work here. You two are our template experts. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 21:57, 18 May 2011 (PDT)
+</div>
-:::I'm all for making the category page template short and sweet - something that can be "substituted," rather than "transcluded." Sorry to hear about your laptop.  It reminds me of a few hard drives that have blown up on me over the years.  Probably the more folks who keep an eye on Teratornis (and me) the better!  ;-) --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 06:49, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
+Because all YouTube and Vimeo videos have the same aspect ratio, it looks pretty good. However if you start adding meta data or combining it with images, it may start looking a bit funny:
-== Integrating Appropedia subsites ==
+<div class="grid">
-As a relative newcomer to Appropedia, I have to admit that I find it rather challenging to figure out even the basic scope of what's going on everywhere. My personal inclination has been to think of the foundation as the central organizer, rather than the wiki.  From that perspective, the wiki still is the primary project and face of the foundation, but that makes me more inclined to think about other things that might be going on as well.  This topic is about other ways to think about presenting the web presence of Appropedia.
+{{Video|PsP5IJT77fU}}
-{{User:RichardF/Contents/Subsites}}
+{{Video|v5CdNH3sQT0}}
-The basic idea that comes to mind for me is to use "Appropedia.org" as the home page for the foundation's web presence. The wiki and other projects would be presented as subsites.  In this arrangement, all Appropedia pages would have the same header and footer to visually and conceptually tie everything together.  The page body would present the distinct content of the wiki, blog and any other major content within that frame.  Some subsites might be literal, such as the blog, while others might simply be framed views into other site pages, such as the social networking section.
+[[File:Appropedia.jpg|thumb|none|Appropedia, the sustainability wiki]]
-At a relatively low overhead and redesign cost, I believe an approach to integrating all of the current and future Appropedia subsites will be of great value to branding and growing Appropedia. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 06:58, 18 May 2011 (PDT)
+{{Video|WrSyqGBL5a4}}
-:Interesting. Most people will be using the wiki (and we want to encourage that) and I think that's a strong argument for the wiki being at appropedia.org. I expect we'll have language subsites in time, so having subsites of a wiki subsite is also a bit unwieldy.
+{{Video|8CLRTa_ocmo}}
-:But we do need this kind of thinking about our structure. If we have a wiki based forum, the integration will be tighter, but we could still link it from a top row in a new skin. (We could even have a wiki based blog - we'll have to see if the extensions for that have improved, but that's a lower priority and a digression...)
-:Re social networking... that happens across the wiki, and potentially in a forum and blog. How do you see it fitting into the subsite model? Social media is a part of it, and by nature that's more scattered across the web - how do we better integrate that? Having "Add this" type buttons is one way to help (and Wesley is doing something on that). Improving our [[Appropedia:Social media]] page also. Thanks. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 22:10, 18 May 2011 (PDT)
-::Now that [[Widget:Iframe]] ''almost'' is up and running, a technically simpler approach could be to just put key subsites and related sites each in a big frame on a normal wiki page. Selected Iframe pages also could be highlighted using Main Page tabs, like at [[Kivapedia:Main Page]].
+{{Video
-:::For the social stuff, I was thinking about what's on the [[Appropedia:Social media]] page.  Going back to the Iframe idea, "Social media" could become a portal, with each of the "Highlighted" sites on their own Iframe page, regardless if any of them (e.g., Blog, Forum) make it to a Main Page tab.
+| 431803145
-::::Well, so much for ''that'' idea.  None of the social media "big shots" allow themselves to be framed.  The only sites I could get to show up in the development Iframe were [http://globalswadeshi.ning.com/ globalswadeshi], [http://community.livejournal.com/appropedia/ livejournal], [http://www.stumbleupon.com/stumbler/nopanacea/reviews/ stumbleupon] and [http://www.delicious.com/nopanacea delicious]. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 12:32, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
+| align = center
+| title = The Walking Fish
+| description = A tragicomic short film about ambition, perfection and self-acceptance.
+| keywords = ambition, perfection, self-acceptance, fish
+| authors = Thessa Meijer
+| date = 2020-07-05
+| location = Netherlands
+| language = es
+| license = CC-BY-SA-4.0
+| annotations =
-::p.s. The wiki "Home" page really is ''not'' at "Appropedia.org" - it's at "Appropedia.org/Welcome_to_Appropedia". That's just like http://www.wikipedia.org is not the "Home" page of any of its encyclopedias. ;-) --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 07:16, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
+* 00:00 Start
+* 00:10 Tenth second
+* 01:00 Minute mark
-:Other quick ways to highlight selected Iframe pages would be to just add them to the Sidebar or an announcement across the top. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 08:27, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
-== Popular topics ==
-[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] made this "[http://www.wordle.net/ Wordle]" based on Appropedia's 5000 most poular pages of Appropedia's most popular pages [[Image:Appropedia wordle.png|thumb|upright=2|right|"[http://www.wordle.net/ Wordle]" based ]]. I find it interesting, and I think it's useful for showing where we have content, and where we're lacking, or where the info might be poorly linked and getting little traffic.
-This makes me think about the idea of something like a "category cloud" - looking like this, based on the number of articles in each category, and with each category title clickable. I think that would be both useful and engaging, and it's probably not hard to install the extension. (Wordle would still be interesting to play with, though, as it can use different inputs.)
-What do others think about a category cloud?  --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 21:31, 18 May 2011 (PDT)
-:Not surprisingly, I ''like'' the basic idea.  I had an '''''article''''' cloud at Kivapedia posted on the home page until  spammers took over the wiki. Here's the code I used.
-<pre>
-<center>
-{{#dpl:namespace=
-  |notcategory=Main Page portal
-  |nottitlematch=%/%
-  |addpagecounter=true
-  |mode=userformat
-  |listseparators=,<font size="%COUNTFS%">[[%PAGE%|%TITLE%]]</font>,
-  |inlinetext=  •
 }}
-</center>
-</pre>
-One concern I have is about the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Dynamic_Page_List MediaWiki Extension:DynamicPageList (third-party) warning]:
-{| Class="wikitable" style="background:#FFE6F2"
-|-
-| '''WARNING:''' the code or configuration described here poses a '''major security risk.'''
-'''Problem:'''
-* Allows users to inject arbitrary html (including javascript) into pages. This could allow an attacker to steal other people's accounts, or redirect users to another site (etc. See XSS)
-* Doesn't adequately check the dplcache parameter. This allows user to overwrite certain files in the filesystem (if they end in .txt), and possibly display the contents of certain files. In the worst case, if apache is configured to support scripting languages using the AddHandler directive, this allows arbitrary code to be executed on the server.
-|}
-I don't know all the technical details involved with all the possible DPL extensions, but consulting with a MediaWiki expert first certainly sounds to be in order. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 06:00, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
-:I also should point out the particular wordle shown here is ''not'' a weighted representation of the most viewed articles. If that were the case, the wordle would be a ''huge'' representation of the two or so most viewed articles - [[Welcome to Appropedia]] and [[Solar Charged Lawnmower]]. Since that really didn't seem to be the story Appropedia wanted to tell, what I did was enter the titles of the 5,000 most popular articles with no weightings for page views. An example of a weighted wiki wordle by article title is at [[Wikipedia:Vital articles#External links]]. So, what the wordle here basically tells me is the popularity of article topics to ''editors'', because they are the ones creating the titles.  I thought I should clear that up. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 06:22, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
-Okay, now I see that [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Tagcloud Mediawiki:Category:Tag cloud extensions] shows lots more possibilities than the evil extension I used in the past. With the security question out of the way, that gets me back to the "Category" vs. "Article" cloud question.  It looks to me that both possibilities still are there. My preference still would be to go with articles in the cloud because that's what an article-based wiki is about. Maybe the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Result_Formats/tagcloud_format SRF tagcloud] would do the trick.
-Wikipedia has tools for projects that can display article lists by quality, importance ''and'' popularity. Here are two U.S.A. Project examples: [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Assessment#Quality and importance tables|Quality and importance tables]] and [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Popular pages|Popular pages]].
-A start of something along those lines that could be done here with article clouds would be to use [[:Category:Highlighted content]] and [[:Category:Topics]] as the ''only'' sources of articles for the cloud.  That cloud would represent a combined high level of quality, importance and popularity at Appropedia.  It also would be an interesting source of conversations for what articles ''should'' be in those two categories that are seeding the cloud. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 09:48, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
-I made a quick wordle - [http://www.wordle.net/show/wrdl/3652070/Appropedia_Cats Appropedia Cats] - based on the 357 categories with 10 or more members, using the number of members to weight the size of each category, e.g., "Stubs:651" and "Solar energy:10".  A MediaWiki category cloud would look something like this. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 18:47, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
-== Pages to highlight? ==
-Would be great to have some new pages to highlight on the from page in coming weeks. What are your favorite pages that are neat, complete, and with a good image?
-See [[Appropedia:Highlighted Projects]] for pages to date. Although that page and template are for projects, we could highlight any good page, as long as it includes a decent image. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 13:51, 19 May 2011 (PDT)
-== Vital articles – importance, quality and popularity ==
-Here’s an idea.  Start a vital articles project to help organize and communicate what’s important, good and popular about Appropedia articles.  It can draw many of its approaches and tools from the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Vital articles]] project. The project here then can be used to manage the basic conceptual framework for how the encyclopedic content of the wiki is organized, developed and presented to the readers.
-The basic scope of the project would be for members to rate articles in terms of their overall encyclopedic importance and quality, monitor their popularity, and identify high-impact next steps for improving the Appropedia reading experience.
-Drawing from Wikipedia, article importance can be rated as top, high, medium or low.  Quality ratings can be featured, A, good, B, C, start or stub.  Popularity is a ranking based on the number of page views for a given time periohttp://www.appropedia.org/index.php?title=Appropedia_talk:Village_pump&action=edit&section=138d.  These three attributes of the collection of articles then can form the basis for making decisions about article classification and navigation systems, as well as focusing article development and improvement drives.
-One key departure from the Wikipedia Way I would want to weigh in on is to use the importance ratings as the primary organizer for presenting content, rather than the quality-featured content method.  Quality still is important, but it should be #2 on the priority list.  “First, do the right things.  Then, do the right things well.”  For example, the top-level importance articles can form the basis for ''all'' of the top-level article organization and navigation structures – Sidebar, CategoryTree and Topics category.  All the other articles then can flow from this common foundation.
-In addition, subprojects can be formed around each of the top-level importance articles.  In terms of the three ratings attributes, quality always remains the same, importance is reassessed at each level, and popularity rankings are based on the same number of page views but only for the articles included.
-So, that’s the basics.  What do you think? --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 07:55, 20 May 2011 (PDT)
-:Good thoughts. We definitely want some way of focusing on certain content. Are you interested in fleshing it out some more - e.g. starting to identify important content? Existing pages and needed pages? [[Six ways to die]] is one framework to keep in mind. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:26, 23 May 2011 (PDT)
-::As it turns out, I'm not much of an Appropedia content expert, but I am a self-proclaimed expert in making sense of content - I'm a lot better at describing "what is" than deciding "what should be." In terms of deciding what should be the top-importance topics/articles, I would start by looking at what's already in the Sidebar, CategoryTree and Topics category.  After combining those listings, I would get a consensus on what topics are top-importance and what are high- or lower importance.  Here's a table that combines those topics.
-{| class="wikitable" style="border:#A3BFA3; background:#F5FFF5"
-|+ [[Appropedia talk:Village pump#Vital articles – importance, quality and popularity|Vital articles, top-importance candidates]]
-|-
-! style="background:#CEF2CE" | [[MediaWiki:Sidebar|Sidebar]] || style="background:#CEF2CE" |[[Appropedia:CategoryTree|CategoryTree]] || style="background:#CEF2CE" | [[:Category:Topics|Topics category]] || style="background:#CEF2CE" | Combined topics
-|- valign="top"
-|
-* [[Portal:Appropriate technology|Appropriate tech]]
-* [[Portal:Green living|Green living]]
-* [[:Category:Food and agriculture|Food / Agriculture]]
-* [[:Category:Construction and materials|Construction]]
-* [[:Category:Energy|Energy]]
-* [[:Category:Health and safety|Health / Safety]]
-* [[:Category:Transport|Transport]]
-* [[:Category:Water|Water]]
-* [[:Category:Knowledge|Knowledge]]
-* [[:Category:Projects|Projects]]
-* [[:Category:Organizations|Organizations]]
-||
-<categorytree depth="0">Built environment</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Business</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Culture and community</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Design</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Energy</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Food and agriculture</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Health and safety</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">International development</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Knowledge</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Locations</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Projects</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Taking action</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Transport</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Water</categorytree>
-||
-<categorytree depth="1">Topics</categorytree>
-||
-* [[Portal:Appropriate technology|Appropriate tech portal]]
-<categorytree depth="0">Appropriate technology</categorytree>
-* [[Portal:Green living|Green living portal]]
-<categorytree depth="0">Green living</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Built environment</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Business</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Communication</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Construction</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Culture and community</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Design</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Energy</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Environment</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Food and agriculture</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Fundamental human needs</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Health and safety</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">International development</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Knowledge</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Living</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Locations</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Organizations</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Projects</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Taking action</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Transport</categorytree>
-<categorytree depth="0">Water</categorytree>
-|}
-How would you like to go about building consensus on at least a first draft of the top-importance articles list? --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 12:21, 23 May 2011 (PDT)
-[[File:Sustainable development and hierarchy of needs.png|thumb|upright=2.0|[[Sustainable development|Sustainable tools]] to meet [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs fundamental human needs] ]]
-:One type of basic criterion for deciding what should be the top-importance articles would be to operationalize the Appropedia mission into a conceptual framework that can be used to structure the importance of articles. The schematic here is my attempt to do that. In effect, I see Appropedia as a resource about "sustainable tools to meet fundamental human needs."  I used a sustainable development three-domain model for the tools. All the projects here seem to be about sustainable tools. I used Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs for, uh, needs.  Six ways to die nicely fits in the needs hierarchy. In this approach, all of the top-importance articles would represent fundamental elements of this framwework.  Any framework that better represents Appropedia's mission would work even better. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 13:19, 23 May 2011 (PDT)
-Two navboxes I started, {{tl|Solar navbox}} and {{tl|Water navbox}}, are another early attempt to start organizing articles around tools and needs. The Sun and water clearly qualify as needs at the base of the pyramid. Sections within each navbox take a first go at grouping sustainable tools by topic. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 13:40, 23 May 2011 (PDT)
-:I'm surprised the "non-portable" copy of [[wikipedia:Template:Navbox]] you copied over the portable but insufficiently featured {{Tl|Navbox}} seems to be working here. See my comments at:
-:* [[Template talk:Navbox#Child navboxes and groups]]
-:If I get motivated I might try to figure out how the non-portable template code can work here given that I thought we were not running HTML Tidy. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 14:02, 25 May 2011 (PDT)
-::Yes, I was surprised too. I read your comments at template talk too.  The problems I was having were related to the nested features of navbox, with groups and navboxes.  The bad code looked like it was related to the nested table start code "{|" not rendering properly.  I tested the full version in my sandbox area before I moved it over.  So far, I haven't noticed any other issues, but I'll keep an eye out.
-::So, what do you think of the vital articles project idea? :-) --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 16:23, 25 May 2011 (PDT)
-== Mobile Skin ==
-I'm trying to get to work on a mobile skin, but I am hoping to get some input from members of Appropedia as to what they would want / not want in a skin. I've created a page [[User:Tahnok/mobile skin|listing page elements currently on Appropedia]] and my take on what I think should be kept / not kept. Feel free to disagree. --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 12:52, 20 May 2011 (PDT)
-:All right, I'm currently working on the skinning the edit page and I'm wondering about the necessity of keeping all of the warnings. I would prefer to make them invisible but there may be legal reasons why I shouldn't do that. Thoughts anyone? --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 12:57, 30 May 2011 (PDT)
-::Good points - how about something super brief, with a "more" link to show/expand the warning text? For legal reasons (and because so many people don't pay attention to copyright) I wouldn't want to hide the warnings altogether. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 12:17, 1 June 2011 (PDT)
-== A permanent topical navigation bar at [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice|Sitenotice]] ==
-Another way to highlight the "top importance" [[Appropedia talk:Village pump#Vital articles – importance, quality and popularity|vital articles]] at Appropedia would be to include their topics in a permanent navigation bar on the [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice|Sitenotice]] page.  This would make them available on every page and distinguish them from all the other links in the Sidebar.  A simple example is shown below.
-----
-<center><span style="font-size:85%">[[Portal:Appropriate technology|Appropriate technology]]{{·}} [[Portal:Green living|Green living]]{{·}} [[:Category:Food and agriculture|Food & Agriculture]]{{·}} [[:Category:Construction and materials|Construction]]{{·}} [[:Category:Energy|Energy]]{{·}} [[:Category:Health and safety|Health & Safety]]{{·}} [[:Category:Transport|Transport]]{{·}} [[:Category:Water|Water]]</span>
-<span style="font-size:85%"><br>Check out some of the great [[:Category:Projects|'''projects''']] on Appropedia - and [[Help:Creating a page|'''share yours''']]!</span></center>
-----
-As can be seen from this example, adding the navbar doesn't stop the page from being used for announcements as well. A change I would make from what's linked now is I would make all the links to portals, not categories. Nice things about using Sitenotice for the navbar are that it's prime real estate so people will pay attention to it and likely click the links, it's already there and it's easy to change. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 20:44, 21 May 2011 (PDT)
-:Interesting - giving it a test drive now :). I don't know if the horizontal lines above and below were meant to be included, but it felt like there were enough lines around the top already. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 07:48, 23 May 2011 (PDT)
-::Thanks! Obviously, I like the basic idea.  The horizontal lines were just to set off the two navbar text lines from the rest of this discusion. They weren't meant to be included in the Sitenotice page. Hopefully, that navbar can help draw focus to the related portals development and vital articles project. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 08:09, 23 May 2011 (PDT)
-== Fixing css ==
-So I noticed that there are a couple of errors in the CSS for appropedia. For example there's no padding on navigation, topics & areas and appropedia. Also the toolbox has a slightly different style from navigation. I assume the current blue for links in the side bar is preferred over the grey of the toolbox so I went with that. You can see the style in action on the [http://whatissustainability.org dev blog] and the actual style sheet is at http://whatissustainability.org/MediaWiki:Monobook.css . Can one of the admins port the page over? --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 14:32, 31 May 2011 (PDT
-:After talking to Chris I have modified the css slightly so that the toolbox remaind a different colour. --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 12:10, 7 June 2011 (PDT)
-== Interwiki links to ported Wikipedia content ==
-Whenever content is ported from Wikipedia, we can expect two things about the wikilinks. First, most of the wikilinks there will lead to articles.  Second, a number of links here will be red.  Rather than give up convenient access to the Wikipedia articles and leave the links red here for an unknown amount of time, I have the following suggestions:
-* add an interwiki link to "all" links from the Wikipedia content by using the {{tl|w}} in-line template;
-* remove any red links here in the body of an article when the paired interwiki {{tl|w}} link is present; and
-* change the "See also" section to "See also, and suggested pages to create" such as at [[ Appropriate technology#See also, and suggested pages to create]] to hold any red links that definitely are new article candidates.
-For example, the two main articles, [[Appropriate technology]] and [[Green living]] have significant amounts of their content ported from Wikipedia. They also have virtually all of their wikilinks paired with the original {{tl|w}} interwiki links.  At the time of this posting, [[Appropriate technology]] still has most of its original red links, while [[Green living]] has the red links removed.
-If there is support to do this, I'll remove the red links from the [[Appropriate technology]] article.  In addition, since [[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] showed me how to do a [[User talk:RichardF#fancy search and replace|fancy search and replace]] for quickly adding the {{tl|w}} interwiki links to an article, I'm willing to help do this for other articles too.  Just let me know if this is an approach you all want to implement. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 19:52, 31 May 2011 (PDT)
-I added a third suggestion above for using a "See also, and suggested pages to create" section to explicitly identify articles for creation here. That way, an article is not peppered with red links, and a location for generating article creation to-do lists is readily available. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 10:18, 1 June 2011 (PDT)
-:Quick thought re adding {{tl|w}} links - I wonder if running [[A:AutoWikiBrowser]] would let you add or skip them on a link-by-basis? (It's a Windows program, and I haven't managed to get it running in Linux yet - no one has used it on Appropedia yet, AFAIK.) Or use a text editor with decent regex for search and replace? (E.g. Geany - but might be tricky to set up in Windows... what OS do you use?)
-:Listing suggested pages to create at the bottom of the article is good. A ''few'' redlinks within an article probably is a good thing. (We could customize the default text at [[MediaWiki:Newarticletext]], though, so that people clicking on a redlink for the first time get a bit of an explanation.) --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 12:34, 1 June 2011 (PDT)
-::I've used AWB at Wikipedia. It's fine for making judgments find-by-find, but tedious if you already know you want to do a global replace all finds.  In the case of the wonderful {{tl|w}}, I'm thinking it's much more efficient to use a global regex replace all and then go back and read the article for customized changes.  That's what I did for the [[Appropriate technology]] article.
-::I still think the burden of being red should be on the creating editor to commit to starting that article ''real soon now'' if it stays inline.  Otherwise, it should be just at the "suggested pages to cerate" section. :-) --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 13:10, 1 June 2011 (PDT)
-:::Cool - if that way works for you, then very good. I'll check out your new pages. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 02:05, 3 June 2011 (PDT)
-::::Okay, I'm going to start removing the inline red links at [[Appropriate technology]] when they have a paired {{tl|w}} interwiki link with them.  On a case-by-case basis, they can be added back inline if the corresponding Appropedia article is about to be created. If an article is desired there but it likely won't be created in the near future, a red link for it can be created at [[Appropriate technology#See also, and suggested pages to create]]. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 05:58, 3 June 2011 (PDT)
-:::::Appropedia has the difficult situation that many of our articles mention or allude to a huge foundation of encyclopedic content, but it would take thousands of person-hours of skilled labor to duplicate the corresponding thousands of articles from Wikipedia. This is one of many reasons why [[Making a successful new wiki is hard]]. Red links can be a useful tool for stimulating other people to develop new articles, but this is only working if the residence time of a red link is fairly low (i.e., it doesn't stay red for long). If red links are piling up and hanging around for years to fester, then they are not a useful tool but merely a depressing eyesore. When an article has dozens and dozens of red links, it screams "neglect". I don't think red links are a particularly good example of [[wikipedia:Stigmergy|Stigmergy]] (i.e., "the stimulation of workers by the results they have achieved"), because a red link is not substantial enough to constitute a stimulating "result". That is, the red link doesn't contain enough existing structure to inspire someone else to extend it. It's not much better than leaving dirty dishes around the house in hopes that someone else in the house will wash them. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 15:39, 5 June 2011 (PDT)
-I found 26 articles that used {{tl|Attrib wikipedia}}. I started adding the {{tl|w}} inline interwiki links and removing the corresponding red links.  I also added two templates - {{tl|Y}} {{Y}} & {{tl|N}} {{N}} - that can come in handy for keeping track of various to-do lists, like in the example below. This example also shows how {{tl|Multicol}}, {{tl|Multicol-break}} and {{tl|Multicol-end}} can be used to format text columns.
-{{User:RichardF/Contents/Interwiki links}}
---[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 18:30, 5 June 2011 (PDT)
-== Task status templates ==
-I added a few more task status templates to the available collection.
-{{multicol}}
-*{{Tl|Done}} — {{done}}
-*{{Tl|Doing}} — {{Doing}}
-*{{tl|Isdoing}} — {{Isdoing|Example}}
-*{{tl|Check mark}} — {{Check mark}}
-*{{tl|Tick}} — {{Tick}}
-*{{tl|Y}} — {{Y}}
-{{multicol-break}}
-*{{Tl|Not done}} — {{Not done}}
-*{{tl|X mark big}} — {{X mark big}}
-*{{tl|Cross}} — {{Cross}}
-*{{tl|N}} — {{N}}
-{{multicol-break}}
-*{{tl|?}} — {{?}}
-{{multicol-end}}
---[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 10:31, 6 June 2011 (PDT)
-== Redlinks and {{tl|w}} links ==
-Great to see this activity, described [[#Interwiki links to ported Wikipedia content|above]]. Some suggestions:
-'''{{tl|w}} links''':I made this template seeing that it would be useful for cases where there was no Appropedia article (either because it was outside our scope, or it just hadn't been created yet) or the Appropedia article was still a stub, and the reader was likely to want more information than was offered there. To my thinking (and this is all up for debate, of course):
-* Blue links (existing Appropedia articles) ''usually'' shouldn't have a {{tl|w}} link. The Wikipedia page can be linked from the article itself - even if it's a stub, it will hopefully be a useful stub, and should have interwiki links. The editor should use their discretion as to whether it's needed.
-* Large numbers of W links with few local links seems odd, as if the page is an index to Wikipedia articles on the subject.
-* Where a redlink is justified (see below) the {{tl|w}} link makes it more bearable.
-* Avoid adding the W links to the "See also" sections - better to have a separate section. (I like to have an "Interwiki links" section - & we can use the [[Green Development Wikis Search]] if we want to look more widely for links.)
-'''Redlinks''': Agreed that dozens of redlinks looks messy. However, removing all or almost all redlinks seems un-wiki-like, since redlinks are one of the key features of a wiki. The question is how to get more attention onto turning red links into articles.
-* Redlinks to fairly basic topics within Appropedia's scope, that really should have an Appropedia article, should remain. Note that each redlink counts towards the topic's ranking on [[Special:WantedPages]].
-* To turn them into blue links, there will be a few strategies we can use. One is to recruit more volunteers, interns and service learning classes and suggest [[Special:WantedPages]] as a great place to start. (Recruiting volunteers, interns and service learning classes deserves a separate discussion topic, but I've been getting interesting bites to [http://www.youtern.com/candidate/job_search/quick/results our first ad on YouTern.com]; EWB Australia is sending some tech interns our way, and we can explore expanding this program and others like it to include content internships.)
-For [[Appropriate technology]], a few of those redlinks would disappear if I do an import of the entire [[wikipedia:Category:Appropriate technology]]. I created a number of those articles, and I'd be happy to see them here, and they're a very good fit here. (I'll want my bot running to do some of the followup editing, so I'll wait till I've got my bot working on my new computer.) That might be a model for other imports from Wikipedia - import a selection of articles from the associated category at the same time. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 11:08, 6 June 2011 (PDT)
-:If I understand you correctly, your preference is for me to revert all of the redlink and {{tl|w}} changes I made, and don't do that anymore.  Is that correct?  If that's the case, then I want to revert those article changes before many more edits occur. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 12:59, 6 June 2011 (PDT)
-::Not all of them - I'm just suggesting to be more selective. The w links are often a good addition, and a lot of the redlinks should be removed if adapting a Wikipedia article - I think that's a good approach. I realize that what I'm suggesting makes it more work - but of course it doesn't have to be perfect, and it's always possible to go back and edit. Those are my thoughts - I'm also interested in what you and others think.
-::I did [http://www.appropedia.org/index.php?title=Ingredients_of_a_successful_commons&diff=173117&oldid=172968 one revert] where it was just w links on existing article links, but most wouldn't be as simple clear cut. Thanks. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 13:51, 6 June 2011 (PDT)
-:::Oops - I see that you made some other changes there, so I replaced one edit... was also going to replace one of the w links, which would have been fine, but decided to create the [[Attribution]] stub rather than just linking to the Wikipedia stub. This is what I mean about it being complicated. But it's all good - we're making progress. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 14:05, 6 June 2011 (PDT)
-::::Well, if it's not cut-and-dried, I already made the edits that made the most sense to me. What I'm going to do, then, is leave my edits as is.  If someone wants me to revert any particular article I'll do that on request.  I'll also leave the remaining articles to others to decide how they want to interwikilink them. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 17:04, 6 June 2011 (PDT)
-:::::I'll keep making some changes to the w links, and I hope we can do some more work with the text in the articles as well. Some original content and remixing will help to avoid the search engines deciding it's just a copy of Wikipedia. (Not sure how serious that is... but still, it's good to have our own versions.) This is a good (small) number of articles to work with for now. Thanks again --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 11:42, 12 June 2011 (PDT)
-== Fundamental category - faceted subcategories proposal ==
-This is a proposal to rearrange the Appropedia [[:Category:Fundamental|Fundamental category]] to be more in line with [http://sustainabilityscience.org/category.html The Forum on Science and Innovation for Sustainable Development framework] Core Themes and Content Items. This framework is very much in line with Appropedia. A major benefit of updating the Appropedia category system to be more in line with this framework is that a wealth of information related to sustainable development already has been organized along these lines.  The better Appropedia's category system matches up with this framework, the easier it will be for Appropedia readers and contributors to see the connections among these resources.
-The SISD framework is an example of a faceted classification{{w|faceted classification}} system - multiple ways to think about and find content.  This is the way just about every wiki category system works. The SISD core theme facets are Critical Sectors, Development Goals, Geographic Regions, Research Themes, and Geographic Scale. A number of content item facets also are included, like Projects, Programs and Solutions. Any article can be coded by any of the facets.
-The following table shows how the Appropedia Fundamental category could be rearranged to be more in line with the SISD framework Core Themes and Content Items. All fundamental subcategories and all [[:Category:Topics|Topics]] subcategories are included in this table.  The revised Fundamental category would look as follows, with all other subcategories moved elsewhere.
-{|
-|- valign="top"
-| width="33%" |
-* [[:Category:Fundamental|Fundamental]]
-** Sustainability themes (new)
-** [[:Category:Topics|Critical sectors]] (Topics renamed and split)
-** [[:Category:Fundamental human needs|Fundamental human needs]]
-** [[:Category:Places|Places]]
-** [[:Category:Taking action|Taking action]]
-||
-This proposal includes a relatively small amount of changes to individual categories at the top levels. Most of the changes simply involve rearranging the parent and child relationships among categories. A few new categories also would be created.  The biggest changes would be to the [[:category:Topics|Topics]] category. First, the category would be simplified by removing some of the subcategories.  Second, its name would be changed to something like Critical sectors.
-|}
-{{User:RichardF/Contents/Fundamental category}}
-If you're interested in updating Appropedia's encyclopedic classifications system, I'm all for it and would be happy to help.  --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 09:53, 10 June 2011 (PDT)
-The following table shows how [http://www.appropedia.org/Special:MostLinkedCategories the 100 most linked-to article categories] can be arranged by the proposed fundamental category structure.  Each category is listed only once, although many of them actually go with more than one of the fundamental categories.  That's what a faceted category system is all about.
-{{User:RichardF/Contents/Top 100 cats}}
---[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 02:24, 12 June 2011 (PDT)
-I like this idea as well it puts Appropedia more in line with the mainstream sustainability lit and make things easier to find. The easier the better. The critical mass of content is not too far away now and we want a strong structure to input the new info. --[[User:J.M.Pearce|Joshua]] 05:39, 12 June 2011 (PDT)
-:Thanks RichardF. Agreed that SISD's framework is good, and worth largely adopting, though our needs will be slightly different. E.g. "Topics" is a clear catch-all for topics - i.e. subject areas. The suggested replacement, "Critical sectors," seems to imply it's more limited, like there should be a "non-critical sectors" category ;-). That might work better for SISD than for us - but maybe I haven't grasped the terminology.
-:I think there's a lot of good stuff in here, but I'm going to want to keep looking over this and figuring out the specific changes and how they compare to the current structure.
-:I'd be comfortable with suggestions for category merges, splits, renames, and deletions being dealt with in small batches -  one or two or three at a time. Where categories are linked somehow (e.g. "Food production" and "Agriculture"), we can consider them together. How does that sound? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 11:34, 12 June 2011 (PDT)
-Perhaps the best next step is to start by considering the root category of Appropedia, [[:Category:Categories|Categories]] in the context of the Wikipedia root category, [[wikipedia:Category:Contents|Contents]].  Appropedia's root category has two paths - [[:Category:Appropedia|Appropedia]] and [[:Category:Fundamental|Fundamental]]. Wikipedia's root category has three main types of paths, with several categories of each type - encyclopaedic content, navigational content and content maintenance and help.  The specifics are shown below.
-{| style="background: transparent;" width=100%
-| valign=top width=33% |
-;Encyclopaedic content
-;Featured content
-;Articles
-;Glossaries
-;Lists
-;Timelines
-| valign=top width=33% |
-;Navigational content
-;Books
-;Categories
-;Indexes
-;Outlines
-;Portals
-| valign=top width=33% |
-;Content maintenance and help
-;Help
-;WikiProjects
-;Wikipedia administration
-;Wikipedians
-|}
-The "fundamental" categories on the two wikis are different. Wikipedia's is about basic types of existence.  Appropedia's is about various kinds of articles with no unifying construct.  The "topics" also are different. Wikipedia's are comprehensive. Appropedia's are related to aspects of sustainability and sustainable development.
-[[wikipedia:Portal:Contents|Wikipedia's contents portals]], which I helped design, use two broad facets - topic and type of page. That's relatively straightforward compared to the number of facets used here.  That's why the SISD framework looks more complex, even though it covers a narrower range of topics.
-The key for the encyclopedic categories is to pick a comprehensive conceptual framework and stick with it. Wikipedia shoots for all noteworthy knowledge. Appropedia shoots for some subset of that in more depth and beyond an encyclopedic style.  Since every article is about some sort of topic, that category doesn't seem to be particularly useful to me here.  If "Critical sectors" doesn't cut it, then maybe something like "Resources" comes closer.  The point is to name the pie, find its edges, then start slicing it up and serving it out, preferably with some scoops of tasty ice cream here and there to jazz things up!  ;) --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 14:44, 12 June 2011 (PDT)
-:I'm a bit confused - it might help to explain what exact changes you're proposing - what gets moved, to where? Are there merges or splits?
-:The rename of {{cl|Topics}} to something something else isn't a structural change, though we can certainly talk about it here. "Topics" still seems like the clearest name. Re "Since every article is about some sort of topic, that category doesn't seem to be particularly useful to me here." - Yes, every page belongs somewhere in the Topics category tree, but if it's not a topical article (e.g. it's a project or design) then it also belongs in one of those other categories. Does that make sense? Thanks
-I made specific suggestions for changes and I didn't see a lot of support for it. So I stepped back with a process suggestion at a higher level.  Here are some bulleted suggestions than can be fleshed out as/if they're supported and implemented.
-* Have three "types" of subcategories from the root category:
-** Encyclopedic content
-** Navigational content
-** Content maintenance and help
-:If you want to keep the current top structure, I would do it like this.
-:* Categories
-:** Fundamental
-:*** Encyclopedic content
-:*** Navigational content
-:** Appropedia
-* Outline a comprehensive conceptual framework for the encyclopedic content based on the principles of sustainability and sustainable development. The SISD framework seems like a good start to me.
-** Outline the scope of the "topics" category.
-*** One approach would be to go comprehensive, like at Wikipedia.  The [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents|Contents navigation system]] I worked on there has twelve broad topics: [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Reference|Reference]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Culture|Culture]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Geography|Geography]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Health|Health]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/History|History]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Mathematics|Mathematics]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Nature|Nature]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/People|People]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Philosophy|Philosophy]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Religion|Religion]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Society|Society]] · [[wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Technology|Technology]]
-*** The other basic approach would be to go green - pick the high-level sustainability / sustainable development topics related to the environmental, social and economic domains typically discussed in that literature as resources, sectors, themes, needs, and so on.
-*Start aligning all of the Appropedia classification and navigational structures along these basic outlines, such as the:
-** Sidebar
-** Top navbar
-** Categorytree
-** The Categories system
-** Vital articles importance rating system
-How's that?  :-) --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 13:59, 15 June 2011 (PDT)
-== Google Chrome translation bar ==
-When I come across an Appropedia bar in Spanish, my [http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=173424&hl=en-US Google Chrome translation bar] pops up and translates it a few seconds later. Here's the list of available languages.
-{{Multicol}}
-* Afrikaans
-* Albanian
-* Amharic
-* Arabic
-* Armenian
-* Azerbaijani
-* Basque
-* Belarusian
-* Bengali
-* Bihari
-* Bosnian
-* Breton
-* Bulgarian
-* Catalan
-* Chinese
-* Chinese (Simplified Han)
-* Chinese (Traditional Han)
-* Corsican
-* Croatian
-* Czech
-* Danish
-* Dutch
-* English
-* English (Australia)
-* English (Canada)
-* English (New Zealand)
-* English (South Africa)
-* English (United Kingdom)
-* English (United States)
-* Esperanto
-* Estonian
-* Faroese
-* Filipino
-{{Multicol-break}}
-* Finnish
-* French
-* French (Canada)
-* French (France)
-* French (Switzerland)
-* Galician
-* Georgian
-* German
-* German (Austria)
-* German (Germany)
-* German (Switzerland)
-* Greek
-* Guarani
-* Gujarati
-* Hausa
-* Hawaiian
-* Hebrew
-* Hindi
-* Hungarian
-* Icelandic
-* Indonesian
-* Interlingua
-* Irish
-* Italian
-* Italian (Italy)
-* Italian (Switzerland)
-* Japanese
-* Javanese
-* Kannada
-* Kazakh
-* Khmer
-* Kirghiz
-* Korean
-{{Multicol-break}}
-* Kurdish
-* Lao
-* Latin
-* Latvian
-* Lingala
-* Lithuanian
-* Macedonian
-* Malay
-* Malayalam
-* Maltese
-* Marathi
-* Moldavian
-* Mongolian
-* Nepali
-* Norwegian
-* Norwegian Bokm
-* Norwegian Nynorsk
-* Occitan
-* Oriya
-* Oromo
-* Pashto
-* Persian
-* Polish
-* Portuguese
-* Portuguese (Brazil)
-* Portuguese (Portugal)
-* Punjabi
-* Quechua
-* Romanian
-* Romansh
-* Russian
-* Scottish Gaelic
-* Serbian
-{{Multicol-break}}
-* Serbo-Croatian
-* Shona
-* Sindhi
-* Sinhala
-* Slovak
-* Slovenian
-* Somali
-* Southern Sotho
-* Spanish
-* Spanish (Latin America)
-* Sundanese
-* Swahili
-* Swedish
-* Tajik
-* Tamil
-* Tatar
-* Telugu
-* Thai
-* Tigrinya
-* Tonga
-* Turkish
-* Turkmen
-* Twi
-* Uighur
-* Ukrainian
-* Urdu
-* Uzbek
-* Vietnamese
-* Welsh
-* Western Frisian
-* Xhosa
-* Yiddish
-* Yoruba
-* Zulu
-{{Multicol-end}}
-Would this come in handy for any translation projects here?  --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 17:29, 11 June 2011 (PDT)
-:I'd like to get a Google Translate option, with menu, put into the skin of the wiki. I've seen this done on a couple of other wikis.
-:This tool (as an extension, or bookmarklet, or just copy-pasting) could be useful as a first pass at translation, in some languages. I think we need to canvas some universities' language departments and recruit some classes and interns - then we can lend a hand in choosing translation tools, if needed. Anyone interested in helping to recruit? :-) --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:59, 12 June 2011 (PDT)
-== Sidebar ==
-I've edited the left-hand [[MediaWiki:Sidebar|sidebar]] ([http://www.appropedia.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki%3ASidebar&action=historysubmit&diff=174198&oldid=166839 diff]), changing some of the categories to portals, arranging them in alphabetical order, and putting the category tree at the end.
-Some of the categories suck, and some of them are missing. Is someone interested in making new portals? It's not hard, but I'd love to get someone else's take on it. Copy the source of one of the newer style templates - e.g. [[Portal:Green living]] or [[Portal:Appropriate technology]] and modify according to the new topic. And remember it's a wiki, so just taking one or two steps is also good. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 11:22, 15 June 2011 (PDT)
-:I've done quite a lot of work on [[:wikipedia:User:RichardF|portal design]] and [[kivapedia:Main Page|wiki design]]. I'm willing to help out with portals here too.  One of the overall design issues I see here is an ambiguous distinction among article, portal and category pages.  I go for articles strong on narrative and media, categories strong on conceptual classifications with minimalist additions to the page, and portals as comprehensive entry points to major topics that showcase the best of what the wiki has to offer.
-:From that perspective, I see the overall portal design here as a bit weak.  My impression is that's in large part to a relatively small amount of content and an incomplete conceptual framework for the content and wiki administration category system. It also seems those circumstances are on the threshold of stepping up a notch or two.
-:Before adding too many more portals using the current design, I would suggest a few other things happen first.
-:* Update the top-level category system to whatever comes from the recent discussions about it.
-:* Set up a number of portal background structures from Wikipedia that allow for consistent design styles and automated rotations of selected content.
-:* Expand the portal layout design elements to include all of the top-level content and administration features of the updated category system.
-:I have experience in these areas and I'm willing to help set up the basic infrastructure and designs, given an expressed consensus of support from the established contributors here. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 19:04, 15 June 2011 (PDT)
-::I'd be happy to go for much less text content in the portals compared to, say, [[Portal:Appropriate technology]]. Other than that I don't see specific problems with them, and they're a relatively easy style to maintain. I'm not sure about the Wikipedia style of testing... but if I comment too much now it'll only be about my personal preferences, so we need to get some feedback, even do some user testing using two or more different styles.
-::What do you mean by portal background structures - templates used in Wikipedia portals? Does "automated rotations of selected content" refer to featured pages for a particular area?
-::Unfortunately it's hard to get much response here (one of the reasons I'm keen to get a wiki-based forum going in place of this page). But I'd be happy to hear what others think. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 21:07, 15 June 2011 (PDT)
-:::There are lots of little maintenance design structures in Wikipedia portals, such as boxes, color palettes, page layouts, subpages, bots (I can't do those), time and random functions, cross-portal organizers, and so on.  Above that, many topical projects of editors coordinate content creating and promotion efforts. That's the kind of stuff I think applies to general portal support and maintenance. It's a big part of what helps people make sense of a wiki.  If that's not of interest here, then there's not much point in creating all the extra infrastructure. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 05:31, 16 June 2011 (PDT)
-::::A lot of the content work (having enough good pages for the random thing to be useful, coordinated content and promotion efforts) depends on the community, so the priority (for me, anyway) is building that community - and a simpler portal structure makes sense to me in the meantime. But the random function may still be useful. The main thing is to have something that makes sense and shows people their main options... and that looks better and clearer than landing on a category page. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:59, 16 June 2011 (PDT)
-:::::Being a relative newcomer, I don't have a clear idea about the level and amount of quality content here.  I'm not at all sure how many contributors and readers do. Maybe picking one topic with lots of content and testing more and automated portal sections on the development site would be a low risk way to go next. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 11:57, 16 June 2011 (PDT)
-::::::Sounds like a good strategy! --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 01:26, 18 June 2011 (PDT)
-An example of how a page can be used to randomly display its subpages is at the development site page, [http://www.whatissustainability.org/Appropedia:Highlighted_Projects/Selected Appropedia:Highlighted_Projects/Selected]. When that page is a subpage of something else, like a portal, the portal page never needs to be updated just because new selected items are added. The selected content will be rotated whenever the portal page is purged. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 14:10, 18 June 2011 (PDT)
-:I also made a layout page at [http://www.whatissustainability.org/Appropedia:Highlighted_Projects/Selected/Layout Appropedia:Highlighted_Projects/Selected/Layout] that could be used for highlighted projects just about anywhere. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 21:55, 18 June 2011 (PDT)
-::[http://www.whatissustainability.org/Appropedia:Highlighted_Projects/Selected Appropedia:Highlighted_Projects/Selected] now shows how {{tl|Box-header-watch}} and {{tl|Box-footer}} can be used to contain content.  The size and location of boxes on portal pages would be controlled by the page layout design. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 13:41, 19 June 2011 (PDT)
-:::Looking good - I think we could use that for our highlighted content boxes for each portal. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 04:39, 20 June 2011 (PDT)
-::::Thanks.  I'm starting to put together some pieces for a portal layout at [http://www.whatissustainability.org/User:RichardF my test user page]. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 09:35, 20 June 2011 (PDT)
-Okay, [http://www.whatissustainability.org/User:RichardF my test user page] now has a sample portal page layout more like a typical Wikipedia portal page.  It has two randomly rotating sections. Any thoughts on what you want do next? --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 19:46, 25 June 2011 (PDT)
-:I now have a working test version on this site at [[User:RichardF/Portal/Appropriate technology]]. Let me know what types of changes you would like to see for it to go live. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 20:07, 28 June 2011 (PDT)
-::Another way to go is to just dump PortalSpace portals and put them on the corresponding category page.  That's the inclination here anyway, so why not just go with it?! Here's an example at [[:Category:Appropriate technology]]. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 10:19, 29 June 2011 (PDT)
-== Adapting ported content ==
-Due to changes in Google's algorithm in 2011 (the "Panda" update) we need to be more careful about duplicated content, within the site, and copied from other sites. Not that we should remove it entirely, where it is good content, but it will help to change it and mix it with other content - i.e. make it more original. I wouldn't want to do this just for the search engines, but I also think it's a chance to improve the quality of these pages.
-For ported content, where we've used content under an [[open license]], the best thing is to adapt the content: add an introduction, expand it, and rewrite it as appropriate.
-I've made a new {{tl|copied}} template to place at the bottom of such pages. It requests the reader to help edit, and also adds <noindex> tag to the page - the noindex means it won't show up in search engines until the notice is removed, but it also helps prevent Appropedia being penalized.
-I'll start adding this tag to some pages, and then pages listed [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Copied|here]] are the ones that will need attention. How does that sound? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 12:03, 15 June 2011 (PDT)
-== Mobile Skin Alpha is live (on the dev wiki)! ==
-Hello folks, I've just finished installing my very alpha release of a mobile skin on whatissustainability.org . It should work automagically if you are using a mobile device and you can enable it as a skin as well. It's called Thirteen.
-Please let me know what you think and what works and does not. If you want to look at the code it's here ( https://github.com/tahnok/Thirteen ). Enjoy --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 09:33, 16 June 2011 (PDT)
-==Lever arms for pedaling==
-Some time ago I made an image of Maurice Houbracken's lever arm for use on cranksets (see link at Appropedia article). This system didn't run very smoothly (I saw it in action where he lives, but at a specific point the whole thing blocks up a bit, and this was inherent to the design. So, I made some other designs, and I placed the images of these at [[Pedal_power]]. I was wondering whether anyone here has more knowledge on lever arms and could take a look at whether my systems would work. I need to integrate one in a first human powered vehicle I'll be modelling out, so I need to be certain it will work.
-The lever arm system could btw be used in all pedal-power related articles, including electricity generator systems.
-[[User:KVDP|KVDP]] 02:50, 18 June 2011 (PDT)
-:Many people have tinkered with bicycle drivetrains for more than a century, coming up with all sorts of clever alternatives. If any alternative bicycle drivetrain was superior, it would immediately take over the bicycles on the professional racing circuit. Racing may be traditional, but racers who want to win readily adopt any technology (legal or not) that lets them go faster. Examples: lyrca shorts and jerseys to replace wool; aerodynamic helmets and wheels; clip-in pedals; performance enhancing drugs; etc. Alternative drivetrains have failed to dislodge the standard because they are less efficient. This is easy to verify by timing the same cyclist on a measured course using different bicycles or different setups. Racing cyclists who train and compete with the same people regularly get immediate feedback about whether an equipment change is helping or hurting. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 14:38, 29 June 2011 (PDT)
-::Each extra bearing introduces more bearing drag and thus energy loss. More bearings also mean more openings where dirt and water can get in, thus more maintenance and more points of potential failure. Bearings wear out, and as they wear, the bearing surfaces get rough which increases the drag. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 11:27, 7 July 2011 (PDT)
-== Religious content ==
-I'd like to hear thoughts on a policy about religious content on Appropedia. We've got a couple of articles that very strongly emphasize religious belief. It doesn't seem appropriate, but on what grounds?
-Relevance? Promotion? Appropedia isn't for promoting your band, so it makes sense that it's not for promoting your religion either?
-This has been discussed in passing before, and there seems to be some agreement on moving religious content by a user to that user's userspace.
-Religion can evoke strong feelings and opinions, for and against. I have my own opinions, but those aren't particularly relevant to this discussion. We need a clear policy that is consistent with Appropedia's [[A:mission|mission]], but of course respectful and sensitive. My concern is that by having religious pages in our article space, we're sending mixed messages about Appropedia's purpose, and to those who arrive here for the first time, it can appear as though Appropedia as a site or community is affiliated with a particular religion - which of course it isn't (nor with any absence of religion). Those are individual matters.
-How do we formulate this? Thoughts, please. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]]
-:Appropedia certainly has ethical values. As a community, we are in favour of giving people satisfying lives, and combatting disease, hunger, etc.. Religious people (of whom I am not one) frequently derive their ethical convictions from their religions, and might therefore argue that religion is intrinsic to Appropedia's activities. Non-religious people can argue that the foundation for ethics is the desirability of having a world in which each of us, including myself, can lead a fulfilling life, and this foundation has nothing to do with religious belief.
-:If we can agree on actions to take, then it doesn't really matter if our reasons differ. In the interests of harmony, I think Appropedia should be secular, with no promotion of religion or any other philosophical viewpoint. If I find any content with which I strongly disagree, such as a religious tirade, I find myself being turned off, and my interest in other material declines. Turning people off from Appropedia is, I think, undesirable.
-:[[User:DOwenWilliams|DOwenWilliams]] 14:59, 19 June 2011 (PDT) David Williams
-::"religion or any other philosophical viewpoint" - agreed. [[A:Policies]] already talks about politics, Appropedia being for describing and comparing alternatives rather than attacking those with a different point of view. This extends to certain types of philosophies, in my thinking. If it's a "philosophy" of how we treat the earth and the poor, that might fit in a certain context, but if it's Marxism vs Austrian libertarianism, no. Some projects will tend to reveal a more collectivist or more individualist perspective, and that's fine. And agreed about actions as our place of agreement. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 03:26, 20 June 2011 (PDT)
-:::I suspect the narrative explanation for ethical behavior is often backwards, i.e. people do not so much choose to behave ethically as a result of having carried out some abstract reasoning from religious first principles, but rather religion is a handy way to rationalize the impulses some people feel to behave ethically, and we do not really understand where those impulses come from. "Because I felt like it" might be the real explanation for much of our behavior, but some people might feel uncomfortable admitting they do not really understand why they do what they do. Religion is not a convincing explanation for ethical behavior because religion doesn't lead all religious people toward any particular behavior, not even within a given sect. Sincere people have used particular religious texts such as the Bible both to justify slavery and condemn it. If religion has been unable to reach one durable consensus on an ethical question as basic as whether owning other people is permissible, how can it be a foundation for ethics?
-:::As to the original question, Appropedia articles should be descriptive rather than prescriptive. An article could describe the religious motivations of a particular individual or group, to the extent that these motivations played a role in whatever work the individual or group did which is within Appropedia's remit. But an article should not state religious beliefs as facts, nor take an "in universe" perspective as if the religion is true, any more than we should take an in universe perspective with a work of fiction (for example, describing fictional characters as if they are real). Any first-person assertions of faith (or any other claims not conclusively supported by evidence) belong on user pages as opinion pieces. I'm all for everybody expressing their opinions in user space, because we enjoy sharing our opinions, and it helps Appropedia by disclosing our motives and biases to other contributors. But personal opinions interfere with collaboration, which is what the article space is for. We can collaborate effectively on descriptions of the objective reality which is available to all of us, but it is harder to collaborate on subjective beliefs and opinions that are only available to the individual who holds them. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 12:39, 7 July 2011 (PDT)
-== We need a policy on manuals & guides ==
-Dozens of pages on Appropedia use the word "manual" in the title - see the [http://www.appropedia.org/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=200&ns0=1&ns1=1&redirs=1&advanced=1&search=manual search results]. I'm not comfortable with this - to me this a "manual" to imply something authoritative and comprehensive. The pages are generally still in early stages (aiming to be manuals, but not there yet) and by nature, a good wiki article is useful, but not exactly authoritative.
-My suggestions:
-* '''The name''': I prefer '''guide''' or ''handbook''' rather than manual, as they sound more like a useful resource rather than instructions that must be followed. ("How to" also sounds okay to me - though this probably describes a more specific topic.) This attitude seems in keeping with the wiki and open knowledge philosophy, providing something that we hope will be useful, but without any promise or warranty. That's how the choice of English words sounds to me, anyway. How do you all feel about the choice of words?
-* '''Starting a guide''': My general preference is to build up the necessary info in the form of good articles, including [[how-tos]], and when there is enough good content to form a comprehensive guide to a subject, then we could form it into something a guide or handbook, by using a category and a navigation template. Where a guide is needed on a specific topic, such as "how to choose a sanitation system" (taking the reader through choices related to context, costs and impacts)
-* '''Naming of components''': As suggested in the proposed guideline at [[Help:Page naming #Topics]], the name should be descriptive - avoid the form of "Foo 1," "Foo 2," or "Foo chapter 3" etc, as this doesn't tell someone browsing what they'll can hope to find on a page, and it breaks with the wiki principle of intuitive page names.
-Thoughts? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 11:48, 25 June 2011 (PDT)
-:I tend to think of a "manual" as something that goes in my glove compartment or comes with my computer - it's about a specific product. I agree that term probably is overused here. When I was trying out navboxes, I came across the [[Appropriate living manual TOC|Appropriate living manual]]. It already had the {{tl|Appropriate living manual browsebar}} across the top of the related pages.  It looks like this.
-{{Appropriate living manual browsebar}}
-:I added the {{tl|Appropriate living manual navbox}} to the bottom of those pages. It looks like this.
-{{Appropriate living manual navbox}}
-:Calling that series of articles a manual seems a bit presumptuous to me, but to be honest, I get that feeling about the concept of "appropriate" technology articles in general. Calling collections of articles guides or handbooks is a little softer in its connotation.
-:Another approach Wikipedia uses for related collections of articles (besides navboxes) is to tie them together with infoboxes of the style shown at [[Wikipedia:Category:"Part of a series on" templates]].  Two examples include [[Wikipedia:Talk:Ecology#Ecology template]] and [[Wikipedia:Template:Transport]]. These template don't presume the articles form a guide or handbook, but simply a common theme.  --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 14:12, 25 June 2011 (PDT)
-:: I am not sure how I feel about manuals on Appropedia.  I had originally thought that Appropedia would be the descriptive resource behind other people's prescriptive manuals on living. That is that we would be the library of project descriptions, processes, stories and outcomes, and then other organizations could make 'manuals' specific to their stakeholders and audience (since the idea of an overall living manual is ridiculous). On a separate note, some of the AT living manual is painfully terrible and colonial. You can see a few of my comments on just a small page here - [[Talk:Appropriate_living_and_networking]]. I DO NOT like the idea of telling people how to live.  I do like working together to find ways that work better in specific contexts. Some possible policies include:
-::* An easy answer would be to avoid telling people how to live all together... i.e. no "how to live manuals".
-::* A more balanced answer might be to make "how to live" pages much more specific, e.g. How to decrease your carbon footprint in the United States, How to secure clean drinking water in Dominican Republic, etc.
-::* Another answer is to make "how to live" pages be under a user's page, e.g. User:Lonny/How_to_not_keep_doing_the_same_things_that_made_AT_fail_in_the_past... but invite others to edit that space.
-::Does anyone else have any other ideas?  In the mean time, can we just delete pages like - [[Appropriate_living_for_one_person]]?  I can't even figure out where to start a useful argument on how people should look (''lean and muscular''... really?  all of us?).  Sorry for the rant. I am really happy to be having these discussions and know that we can come up with ways, together, to provide resources for people and communities working towards a more thrivable life.
-::Thanks, --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 18:52, 25 June 2011 (PDT)
-::PS I see this as a much different question than a guide on "how to size a photovoltaic system". I strongly welcome guides like that, where, if a person/community wants a photovoltaic system the cocreated manual can show the process (and hopefully it is then updated for clarity and accuracy by the people that use it). --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 18:52, 25 June 2011 (PDT)
-:::In my line of work, evaluation, we often make distinctions between characterizations (descriptions) and appraisals (values-based judgments). In this area, it seems that “sustainable living” is primarily descriptive, while “appropriate living” is fundamentally judgmental.
-:::It also seems that it typically will be a lot easier to describe how to do this or that in a sustainable way – potential material for a manual. After that, values-based criteria can be applied to the practice to decide whether it would be appropriate for a given set of world views and circumstances – potential material for guides and handbooks.
-:::It’s also possible to describe values-based criteria and judgments about things. That’s what encyclopedias are good for. So, it seems that an encyclopedia about appropriately sustainable stuff would have room for both descriptive material about sustainable practices that could be used for manuals; and evaluative judgments about practices, sustainable and otherwise, that explicitly present the criteria for those judgments as the fodder for developing guides and handbooks. That way, the readers have the opportunity to make their own judgments about the applicability to them for both sustainability and appropriateness of the practices in question in the context of their own values and circumstances.
-:::The writing policies and guidelines in a situation like this then would focus on making sure claims about sustainability were primarily descriptive and independently verifiable, while assertions about appropriateness clearly described or referenced the world views, criteria and circumstances under which such claims would hold. This probably is a much higher standard than many appropriate this or that articles here can meet. However, putting clear guidelines and introductory materials out there about the basic distinctions between sustainable and appropriate technologies certainly would go a long way to helping contributors and readers understand the fundamental underpinnings of Appropedia, how it could be of use and value to them, and how the encyclopedia could be improved moving forward. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 22:39, 25 June 2011 (PDT)
-{{undent}} Some comments:
-* Substituting the words "guide" or "handbook" for "manual" sounds to me like a pointless run on the [[wikipedia:Euphemism#Euphemism treadmill|euphemism treadmill]]. Whatever connotation we try to avoid by changing the name of a thing, it eventually reattaches under the new name as long as the properties of the thing remain the same. I think content is more important than titles. The primary function of a title, in my view, is to usefully summarize a page to facilitate search and recall, not to shape a reader's impression of it. People should and eventually will form their impressions of content by reading the content.
-* Name changes should be on a case by case basis. I don't think the number of pages with the word "manual" in their titles is, by itself, good or bad. For some of those pages, maybe the word fits, and for others maybe it does not. Maybe there are other manual-like pages that don't call themselves manuals, but should. Ideally we should respond to what we know are problems rather than what we think are problems. Is there a page for which we know the title is misleading people and causing harm? Let's fix that one first. Unfortunately we might be flying blind until someone complains.
-* I agree that numbers by themselves are not usefully descriptive titles, except for articles that are actually about those numbers. See for example [[wikipedia:1]], [[wikipedia:2]], etc.
-* I agree with Lonny that appropriateness is unavoidably specific to geography and context. For example with respect to gardening and farming, there can be dozens of distinct [[wikipedia:Hardiness zone|hardiness zones]] that determine what crops can grow in a given location. Gardening advice appropriate for the tropics probably won't work in Greenland.
-** However, I do like the idea of telling people how to live, or at least telling them what will happen if they ignore the laws of nature. An obvious example is the need to cut everyone's [[wikipedia:carbon footprint|carbon footprint]] to one tonne or preferably less of [[wikipedia:carbon dioxide equivalent|carbon dioxide equivalent]] per year. That does not force everybody to live in exactly the same way, but it does enormously constrain our choices. People who manage to get anywhere near to the needed low carbon living will have a lot more in common with each other than with the high emitters. For example, I haven't seen a credible argument that it is possible to stay under one tonne while burning any liquid fuels for transport. Not when [http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-person-emits-tons-co2-year.html eating, by itself, generates about two tonnes per year].
-** I'm not a huge fan of the word "appropriate", not so much because it is judgmental but because it is vague. But I don't see it as an actively harmful word. Language isn't precise enough to express a problem that really exists in the world of numbers. What we really care about are things that can be quantified: kilowatt-hours, tonnes of carbon dioxide, various measures of soil fertility, agricultural yields, mortality rates, literacy rates, poverty measures, etc. Without quantifiable metrics we have no way to tell whether we are getting closer to whatever goal we have. Without numbers, all we can do is maybe feel good about ourselves.
-* I agree that primarily personal narratives belong on, or should at least start as, user subpages. Anything with the pronoun "I" in it. If an appreciable number of people begin to practice one person's approach to something, then it starts to become the basis for a descriptive article. When a particular method gets a name, we can describe it. Rather than presenting it as the only valid approach.
-* The more I see the difficulties on Appropedia, the more I understand the reasoning behind [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not|What Wikipedia is not]]. Some types of content lend themselves to massive remote collaboration more than others. Wikipedia has, for better or worse, made a formula for excluding most content that hinges primarily or solely on any person's opinion. On Appropedia, we embrace a big chunk of that content, so we have to work out how we are going to handle it.
-** In any dispute, there has to be a final arbiter. Hopefully we can resolve disagreements before the last guy (presumably Lonny) has to rule, but the last guy has to be there to break deadlocks. Otherwise the deciding factor becomes endurance in edit wars.
---[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 11:42, 27 June 2011 (PDT)
-== Important topics ==
-Interesting source of popular topics on Wikipedia about international development: [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject International development/Popular pages]].
-That could make a good list of ideas for anyone, say a student, looking for a topic to write on for Appropedia. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 12:44, 1 July 2011 (PDT)
-:I think those are very useful encyclopedic project tools for tracking popularity, quality, and importance.  There are two basic types of online tools, one with popularity info and one without.  Here's how they look for the International development project.
-:* Popularity, Quality and Importance
-:** [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject International development/Popular pages]]
-:** [http://toolserver.org/~alexz/pop/view.php?proj=intldev&month=Jun11&limit=100&offset=0 Toolserver Popular pages]
-:* Quality and Importance
-:** [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject International development#Statistics]]
-:** [http://toolserver.org/~enwp10/bin/list2.fcgi?run=yes&projecta=International_development&namespace=&pagename=&quality=&importance=&score=&limit=250&offset=1&sorta=Quality&sortb=Importance Toolserver Article lists]
-:The Toolserver pages have lots of options for how the information is displayed, not just as they show up on Wikipedia project pages. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 16:13, 1 July 2011 (PDT)
-I copied the Top 100 most popular list from Wikipedia and linked them here to see which articles already have been created.
-{{User:RichardF/International development top 100}}
---[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 19:20, 1 July 2011 (PDT)
-:Here's a similar list of pages and links for the environment.
-:* Popularity, Quality and Importance
-:** [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject Environment/Popular pages]]
-:** [http://toolserver.org/~alexz/pop/view.php?proj=envir&month=Jun11&limit=100&offset=0 Toolserver Popular pages]
-:* Quality and Importance
-:** [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:WikiProject Environment/Assessment#Current status]]
-:** [http://toolserver.org/~enwp10/bin/list2.fcgi?run=yes&projecta=Environment&namespace=&pagename=&quality=&importance=&score=&limit=250&offset=1&sorta=Quality&sortb=Importance Toolserver Article lists]
-{{User:RichardF/Environment top 100}}
---[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 10:33, 3 July 2011 (PDT)
-I went back to the [http://toolserver.org/~enwp10/bin/list2.fcgi?run=yes&projecta=International+development&namespace=&pagename=&quality=&importance=&score=&showExternal=on&limit=100&offset=1&sorta=Score&sortb=Importance Wikipedia Release Version Tools] for WikiProjects like International development and added them to the table below, [[User:RichardF/Contents/Lists|Article ratings, indexes, lists and outlines]]. The ratings links are used to select articles for Wikipedia offline releases. When you dig into the details you can see that pageviews are part of the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Article selection|article selection criteria]]. Taken together, the article selection score adds up information about [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Article selection#Score = Importance + Quality + Popularity|an article's importance, quality and popularity]]. While I was at it, I also included some related indexes (a-b-c order), lists (grouped by topic), and outlines (fancy lists+ grouped by topic).  Viewing these tables is one way to see how Appropedia article coverage corresponds with Wikipedia article coverage.
-{{User:RichardF/Contents/Lists}}
-While doing this, it occurred to me that if editors here developed a set of Appropedia outlines that laid out the basic intended content coverage by major topic, it would be ''very'' easy to see a number of things, such as the road map for Appropedia's content and how far it's coming along. Those outlines also would come in handy for updating things like categories, portals, to-do lists, etc. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 13:38, 8 July 2011 (PDT)
-:I started adding trees tables that include the Appropedia categorytree, plus the corresponding categorytree, article and outline TOCs from Wikipedia. These tables also can be used to compare coverages of topics. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 18:42, 8 July 2011 (PDT)
-::I added the first navbox, [[User:RichardF/Solar energy navbox|Solar energy]], to the article mapping table. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 10:23, 9 July 2011 (PDT)
-== question about living roofs ==
-I am hoping you would be kind enough to answer a question for me:
-I would like to put a living roof on a new home, but I live in the woods and am concerned about mice and moles chewing up the waterproof lining and/or getting into the house through seams in the decking.   Do there tend to be problems with this?
-The lining would have to have seams, due to the undulating roof shape (structure is conical/hip design, and footprint is an irregular shape), and part of the house would be mostly-or-totally underground.  The plan is not to cover the roof with dirt but with another, lighter growing medium.
-Thanks much,
-Molly
-== New portal design ==
-[[User:RichardF]] has proposed a [[User:RichardF/Portal/Appropriate technology|new portal layout]] - any thoughts? I think it's an improvement. It will take more work to set up and maintain than the current very simple portals, but if Richard is happy to take a lead with this, I think it's fine. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 12:23, 3 July 2011 (PDT)
-:I think it looks much better.  I am a little worried about the added maintenance, and would rather see a little more automation. For example, having stubs and requests be automated (or maybe just have stubs, and have a bot find stubs within a category to populate that with).
-:Thanks for the awesome work, -[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 13:58, 3 July 2011 (PDT)
-::"A portal is an introductory page for a given topic. It complements the main article of the subject by introducing the reader to key articles, images, and categories that further describe the subject. Portals also help editors find related projects and things they can do to help improve Wikipedia." --[[Wikipedia:Portal:Contents/Portals]]
-::Thanks, Chris & Lonny. It's really not that hard to set up a portal. The effort is in selecting content worth showcasing and working on. That's really not a function of the portal itself. It's a function of the editorial projects that identify importance, quality, popularity and maintenance needs of articles related to the topic. If topics are going to be highlighted in the sidebar and similar top-level groupings, then they probably should have some type of listing of the most important subtopics (with existing articles or not) related to them. Those listing can provide the general basis for what gets showcased in the portals. The quality of those articles can help determine where they are showcased - requested, stub, selected. I really don't see much work for bots here. The work I see is for editors. A bot could take the 650 stubs and sort them into subcategories, but editors still need to decide which of those stub should be the focus of improvement drives.  If Appropedia isn't ready for editorial projects, then those items simply could be removed from portal until it is. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 19:08, 3 July 2011 (PDT)
-:::Lonny, I like the bot idea. I'll see if I can get the bot to make lists on the wiki for stubs within Category:Water etc... a bit fiddly, but not too hard. Then as Richard says, editors can choose from that list for the portal.
-:::We could perhaps leave the requests until activity picks up. If there's an area that needs work, covering more than one article, then I wouldn't mind having that listed as a content request. Just a possibility. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 00:51, 5 July 2011 (PDT)
-I implemented the new design at [[Portal:Appropriate technology]]. I'll redesign [[Portal:Green living]] next. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 10:47, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-:The [[Portal:Green living]] redesign is live. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 19:11, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-::Cool - looks really nice! --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 22:20, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-:::Thanks.  Water is up next. Would you mind changing its [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice|Sitenotice]] link to the portal? :-) --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 05:31, 17 July 2011 (PDT)
-::::[[Portal:Water|Water]] is running.  ;-) --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 12:26, 17 July 2011 (PDT)
-[[File:Appropedia wordle.png|left|150px]] <br>[[Portal:Solar‎]] now is lit up.  Considering "Solar" is the most common topical Appropedia article title word, would an admin be willing to add it to the sidebar and [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice|Sitenotice]]? --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 19:46, 18 July 2011 (PDT)<br clear=all>
-:Good call - and great work!
-:The sidebar is trying to cover all the major areas, so Solar doesn't ''quite'' fit (energy is the major area, solar is a sub-area). But since it's such a major theme on Appropedia, and we want to show off our strong points, I reckon it's great to have it highlighted. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 05:08, 19 July 2011 (PDT)
-:The sitenotice [http://www.appropedia.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sitenotice&oldid=178510 now] highlights two of the new portals. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 05:16, 19 July 2011 (PDT)
-{{Portal box|Appropriate technology|Construction and materials|Energy|Food and agriculture|Green living|Health and safety|Projects|Solar|Transport|Water}}
-::Thanks.  I also added {{tl|Portal box|}} that can be used to include portal links in article "See also" sections. The <s>four</s> <s>five</s> <s>six</s> <s>seven</s> <s>eight</s> <s>nine</s> ten portals currently using the Wikipedia style are shown to the right.  I'll pretend like you didn't give me an opening to comment on how Appropedia presents "major areas" and just ponder my next portal project. ;-) --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 06:32, 19 July 2011 (PDT)
-The redesigned [[Portal:Construction and materials]] is built and operating. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 09:51, 21 July 2011 (PDT)
-:Still forging ahead with portals, and you've covered more than half of the main areas now - great stuff. {{tl|Portal box}} looks nice too. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 00:41, 22 July 2011 (PDT)
-[[Portal:Food and agriculture]] is cooking like yeast cakes!  :-o  --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 19:08, 23 July 2011 (PDT)
-The [[Portal:Energy|Energy portal]] is recharged!  --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 10:52, 26 July 2011 (PDT)
-[[Portal:Health and safety]] is redesigned. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 21:29, 30 July 2011 (PDT)
-[[Portal:Transport]] is running. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 17:26, 31 July 2011 (PDT)
-:Impressive work, in quality and quantity - with a bonus of wordplay ;-). They look very cool in that portal box to the right.
-I managed to add [[Portal:Projects|Projects]]. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 16:23, 6 August 2011 (PDT)
-== Userfication ==
-I've proposed a guideline at [[Appropedia:Userfication and incubation]].
-There are a few pages here which aren't really suitable for Appropedia, but it's been hard for us to actually them as we don't want to discourage the editors, and would rather the page was just improved. But then we have sometimes really problematic content that stays on Appropedia... and often it doesn't improve. So I'd like to start userfying or incubating soon. (In fact I've already move 3 pages to an editor's userspace recently.) --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 11:16, 7 July 2011 (PDT)
-== Anti-spam work ==
-In case you're like me and spend more time here than on the front page, there's a new announcement:
-:'''After more than 24 million views and 170 thousand edits, we finally needed to implement a more robust spam protection. Thank you to all the vigilant editors that have helped keep spam off Appropedia over these years. Hopefully the new reCaptcha will help abate while not making Appropedia any harder to use on slow connections. Please let us know if you have any problems. '''
-Please leave any feedback here - if you're finding it helpful, or unhelpful...
-My initial observation is that it hasn't helped all that much - I just deleted a spam page and blocked the spammer, and we've had several new users that look like spambots. A little embarrassing since I've been championing the reCAPTCHA idea, but hey, we have to try...
-But there are more options - I'm looking into how Wikipedia blocks proxies used by spammers - that might help. In the meantime, the admin team here will continue to delete and block so that the Appropedia community can continue building and sharing their knowledge. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 00:15, 11 July 2011 (PDT)
-:Yeah, it looks like ReCAPTCHA was too successful. There are a bunch of other captchas built into ConfirmEdit though. There's an upgraded math captcha that uses the <nowiki><math></nowiki> tags to create an image instead of just plain text. QuestyCaptcha lets you define a series of simple questions / responses. My favourite is [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:KittenAuth KittenAuth] where you have to chose the picture of the kitten to create an account / make a link edit :P  --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 07:20, 11 July 2011 (PDT)
-::Quick thoughts:
-::* Anything based on [[mw:Extension:ConfirmEdit]] probably has the best guarantee of being safe & stable, as it runs on Wikimedia sites. That includes the standard MathCaptcha - not sure about the upgraded one.
-::* That said, I think KittenAuth sounds hilarious, and fun. If it works at least as well as other options, and there's an accessibility option for those who can't see the picture, I'd vote for that.
-::* Maybe CAPTCHA's not the most important link in the spam chain to be working on first - maybe we need to find out how Wikimedia sites block "TOR exit nodes and other proxies" (as I was advised [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#How_Wikipedia_stops_the_nonsense_bots here]). Maybe there's an update list from Wikimedia we can connect to, as with the Spam blacklist extension. My concern here is to not block genuine users - that can happen with IP blocks.
-::--[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:20, 11 July 2011 (PDT)
-:::There's an extension called [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:TorBlock tor block]. Would you like me to put it on the test wiki? --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 11:11, 11 July 2011 (PDT)
-:::Yes please - that looks like the right one. I wonder if there are other IP blocking extensions/settings, or if it's just TorBlock?
-:::Before going with it on live, we'll want to check [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Advice to users using Tor to bypass the Great Firewall]], and make sure we're not accidentally making it hard for people to edit. A few years ago I got blocked from editing a small Wikipedia (the Malay one) even when I was logged in, and that's an aggravating experience for a genuine editor. Not sure how, but something to do with a blocked IP address, even though I was editing from a house which definitely didn't have anyone vandalizing the Malay Wikipedia. Possibly it had to do with dynamic IP addresses used in Australia. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 21:43, 11 July 2011 (PDT)
-::::What kind of blocks should be set for Tor usage? The default setting for that extension is to prevent users accessing the wiki via tor from creating accounts and possible from editing anonymously. Registered accounts are allowed to edit if they are logged in, but it looks like you could prevent "fresh" accounts from editing. What would appropedia's preference be? --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 08:54, 15 July 2011 (PDT)
-:::::Good question... how does it work on Wikipedia? I think they're pretty strict on Tor accounts, but they have an instruction page on what to do if you have to use Tor (e.g. Wikipedia users in China - less applicable to us). --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 00:30, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-== User tools for spam fighting? ==
-I'm trying out some [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Gadgets|Gadgets]] at Wikipedia, hoping to find some user tools to make editing and maintenance easier. E.g. [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Twinkle|Twinkle]] has some useful features, but some of the features aren't relevant here, so we could maybe trim down the code.
-Anyone have other favorite editing tools? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 00:58, 12 July 2011 (PDT)
-:I would like to have a one-click citation tool. I.e., click on any Web page, and automatically get the wikitext for a [[:Category:Citation templates|citation template]] completely filled out, with the original page automatically archived on [[wikipedia:WebCite|WebCite]] to make it [[wikipedia:Wikipedia:Link rot|link rot resistant]]. I have not timed myself for doing the procedure manually, but it takes several minutes, requiring multiple browser tab switches and copies and pastes. It is troubling that not even on Wikipedia, where citations are fundamental to everything, is there any comprehensive citation tool that everyone can use. It doesn't help that seemingly every Web page finds new ways to obscure or obfuscate the citation data, making it hard for even a human to piece together. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 11:54, 12 July 2011 (PDT)
-::What specifically do you mean by "editing and maintenance" in your first sentence? By themselves, those words are too broad to define what you want in a tool; each may encompass dozens if not hundreds of distinct tasks. A tool that someone else likes might not address your need. When looking for a tool, I suggest doing this:
-::* On a user subpage where you take notes, list the tasks you want to automate in whole or part with a tool.
-::* For each task, perform it a few times manually, and list all the steps in your notes. The steps which are mindlessly repetitive may be amenable to automation using currently available software technology. The steps requiring ill-defined judgment calls may not be.
-::* Other people can then examine your tool specification and recognize whether the tools they use can meet it.
-::* When looking for tools, Wikipedia is a good place to start, but often the problems and solutions on Wikipedia are much more elaborate than those on a small wiki. Therefore, look for existing ports of Wikipedia's tools to other small wikis. I.e., look for all the well-run small wikis we can find, in any topic area, and see how they handle their problems.
-::** To the extent that I have looked at other small wikis, I have not been too impressed. But I have not looked at nearly all of them. It would be nice to find someone who reviews small wikis for their technical competence, who has identified the small wikis with best practice.
-::--[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 12:31, 12 July 2011 (PDT)
-:::I wanted to start with an open question, in case there are people who already have favorite tools. As for deciding what we want to automate, that's a good idea, though sometimes a good tool can suggest possibilities than hadn't occurred to me.
-:::Changing the topic a bit from spam-fighting to general editing, I find that for real wikignome editing work, [[A:Pywikipediabot|Pywikipediabot]] is good. I've also installed a "Wikibar," adapted from a Wikipedia user - and shared the instructions at [[User:Chriswaterguy/Wikibar]]. That's very low-tech, and has the templates and chunks of code I commonly use on Appropedia.
-:::[[A:AWB|AWB]] looks useful for Wikignome work, and is easier than Pywikipediabot, but I'm getting an error when trying to install in Linux. (It's a native Windows app.) So I'm sticking with Pywikipediabot, and even helping to debug it and hacking it a little. (I'm not a coder, so it's very basic hacking.) --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 09:15, 15 July 2011 (PDT)
-:::I'll start a new topic below re [[#Interesting small wikis]]. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:26, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-== Category sorting ==
-I'm going to talk a bit geeky, so if that's not your thing, please skip this one! :-)
-For the main page in a category, it's usual practice in many wikis to have it display at the head of the list of pages - this can be done by "piping" using a space - So to put an article at the top of Category:Foo, the category tag would be: <nowiki>[[Category:Foo| ]]</nowiki>. It took me a while to figure out what "best practice" is - now I suggest we do it this way.
-(A small related item: Removing unneeded category sorting tags to improve usability. A few months back we changed default sorting of pages in categories, so pages sort by pagename - e.g. even if it's called "Appropedia:Foo" or "Template:Foo" it will be sorted under F for foo, not A for "Appropedia:" or T for "Template:". We've still got a lot of ''<nowiki>{{DEFAULTSORT:{{PAGENAME}}}}</nowiki>'' and ''</nowiki>|{{PAGENAME}}</nowiki>'' piping in categories, and I believe that unneeded code makes editing more confusing than it needs to be for newbies. So, I worked out how to remove them with [[User:ChriswaterguyBot|my bot]] and started removing them all. 695 pages done so far, but I've missed some, so I'll download the new site dump and run it again in a few days. Note: normally bot edits are hidden on the [[Special:RecentChanges|RecentChanges]] page, but there's a "show bots" option.) --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 23:25, 14 July 2011 (PDT)
-:An alternative is to use {{Tl|Cat main}}{{Tlw|Cat main}} to display the main article in the category page description. Advantages:
-:* A user can look at the wikitext of the category page itself to see how that message got there.
-:* There is no need to rely on a newbie-baffling indirect piping trick in the wikitext of the article itself.
-:* The piping trick merely sorts the "main" article to the head of category list, but does not explicitly label the "main" article as such.
-:{{Tl|Cat main}} is not here yet so I will port it from Wikipedia now. Good luck on making categories "usable" - categories were probably the single most confusing feature for me when I was new to [[MediaWiki]] editing. I had to read [[wikipedia:Help:Category]] repeatedly before I understood how to do things such as create new category pages. There is probably no way to get around the learning burden of categories. People who are willing to make the effort to understand them eventually will understand them. People who don't like to read the manuals will have lots of problems. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 10:55, 15 July 2011 (PDT)
-::Also, while working on categories do you intend to address the biggest problem with categories on Appropedia? Namely: many of our "category" pages are masquerading as articles, with enormously long article-like content in their description sections. This degrades the usefulness of category pages by violating the [[wikipedia:Principle of least astonishment|Principle of least astonishment]]. When someone browses to a category, they are looking for links to related articles, not the full text of what should be in the main article for the category. By misusing categories in this way, we are teaching people the wrong way to use MediaWiki by example, and (if I may generalize correctly from myself) likely putting off experienced Wikipedia editors who visit Appropedia. The more we deviate from best practice on Wikipedia, for no good reason, the more uncertainty we create for people who have learned from that practice. The presence of category pages masquerading as articles here raises the question of whether category pages are supposed to do that. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 11:03, 15 July 2011 (PDT)
-::That's true - with a hatnote (whether cat main or cat header or something else) it's perhaps not important to sort the main topic to the top. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 08:13, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-:::While researching what is already here, I found that I had earlier ported {{Tl|Catmore}} to Appropedia, but (evidently) since then, someone changed [[wikipedia:Template:Catmore]] to a redirect on Wikipedia to [[wikipedia:Template:Cat main]]. These are examples of [[wikipedia:WP:HATNOTE|hatnote templates]]. See [[wikipedia:Template:Hatnote templates documentation]]. I will try to decode the maze of hatnote templates on Wikipedia and see what we should have on Appropedia. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 12:11, 15 July 2011 (PDT)
-{{undent}} There is also a {{Tl|Cat header}} template, which duplicates the function of Wikipedia's hatnote templates. In my view this is an unjustified deviation from Wikipedia's best practice. That is, the documentation for {{Tl|Cat header}} does not explain how it is better than Wikipedia's category page style. Given that Wikipedia is by far the world's most successful wiki, I think we should take it as the standard for best practice unless we identify a real reason to do something differently. Being different only for the sake of being different increases the learning burden for editors who are familiar with Wikipedia. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 13:47, 15 July 2011 (PDT)
-:I'm biased here, since I made the cat header & topic header templates, but I'll explain my thinking. I like a more descriptive hatnote - a few words of explanation, enlightenment or provocation without having to go to the topic article. The words of context plus the possibility of a thumbnail image make it better looking & less dry/technical feeling.
-: In function it's almost identical, it's easy for the reader, and most editors don't edit category pages anyway. That doesn't negate your points at all, but it's a tradeoff. That's my preference, but I'm not so wedded to it that I'd fight a pitched battle for it. :) --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 08:13, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-::Any needed description can go below the hatnote. I never noticed a problem that needed fixing with the simpler style on Wikipedia (e.g. [[wikipedia:Category:Energy]]). Evidently millions of Wikipedia users didn't notice a problem either. This isn't something I'd go to war over, just something where I don't see how the benefits of deviating from Wikipedia outweigh the cost (giving someone who knows how to edit on Wikipedia another unnecessary thing to learn). --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 21:49, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-:::Below the hatnote ''can'' work, but I like the layout of the {{tl|cat header}}, I like the look of it, the fact that the intro text is a parameter gives an implicit limit to the amount that can be written. The extra effort seems minor compared to our overall usability challenges. (Fairly self-explanatory, I think.) There's also the fact that Wikipedia categories contain topic articles, with the occasional list, whereas we have lots of article types.
-:::I'd like to stick with this style for now, but if it turns out there's a wider preference for another style, I'm happy to either see the cat header modified, or go with the Wikipedia style. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:52, 19 July 2011 (PDT)
-=== "Category articles" about to be moved to mainspace ===
-Re "Also, while working on categories do you intend to address the biggest problem with categories on Appropedia? Namely: many of our "category" pages are masquerading as articles, with enormously long article-like content in their description sections."
-There's a bit of a history here, but in brief,  we've agreed on this a while ago, but that leaves the issue of moving them.
-I worked out that by using Special: Export & Special:Import, (with an edit of the xml file in between) we can conserve the page history (since MediaWiki doesn't allow moving of category pages). I came up with that myself - since I'm not a coder I'm proud of any little geeky achievements I come up with.)
-Re timing, I've actually just been working on the bot to help with the second stage (cleaning up the old category pages). There was a bug in Pywikipediabot which delayed me a few weeks, but it's now fixed, so when I can next spend a few hours with my laptop (probably 4 days from now) this is one of my first tasks. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 08:13, 16 July 2011 (PDT) --''Update'': been busy, but still hoping to get to this within the next couple of weeks. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:27, 2 August 2011 (PDT)
-:Related to this move, what should we do with {{tl|Browsetopic}} (I think the function is served by {{tl|topic header}} and {{tl|Newpageresource}}? These are templates from the days when we had a definite "topic category" template (i.e topic info on the category page).
-:I can easily modify or remove templates with my bot. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]]
-== Best practice ==
-About the phrase "best practice": there is a [[wikipedia:Best practice]] article <small>(unfortunately, that article itself does not reflect the best practice for writing articles on Wikipedia, as indicated by the message templates at the top)</small>. No [[Best practice]] article exists on {{SITENAME}} yet <small>(about the concept of best practices in sustainability and appropriate technology)</small>, nor an [[Appropedia:Best practice]] project page <small>(about the best practices in building {{SITENAME}} itself)</small>, but there is a [[:Category:Best practice]] and a [[Facebook best practice]]. I think everybody is, in one way or another, trying to find the best practice for whatever they do, so in a sense it might be a somewhat redundant [[wikipedia:buzzword|buzzword]]. On the other hand, when we encounter a problem for the first time, there is a tendency to get absorbed in trying to construct a solution from scratch, and we forget that potentially thousands or millions of other people may have faced the same problem before. When a problem affects many people or groups, presumably one of those entities has solved or is solving it better than anyone else. Sometimes the best practice is not obvious. When we reinvent wheels unnecessarily, and without knowledge of the best practice, we are unlikely to equal or exceed the best practice.
-Complicating the picture, the best practice for one person or group may not be the best practice for another, when solving the "same" problem, because of their differing resources and constraints. (This is of course fundamental to the notion of appropriate technology.) Thus the search for best practice unavoidably involves defining the problem we face as completely and accurately as possible, including the resources available to us for solving the problem, and the constraints on applying them. However, when we deviate from the best practice, we should always do so consciously and with justification, rather than out of ignorance of what the best practice is. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 13:38, 15 July 2011 (PDT)
-:Good points. I've added "Best practice" to [[Appropedia:About#Content on Appropedia]]. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 22:05, 20 July 2011 (PDT)
-== Interesting small wikis ==
-Prompted by a comment by Teratornis [[#User tools for spam fighting?|above]], I've been thinking about good small wikis. I agree it's hard to find good small wikis as they don't have the resources of the Wikimedia wikis, but here are some that I found interesting in various ways:
-* http://www.grassrootswiki.org - nice skin & front page. (Not active, though about half a year ago they organized a worthwhile meetup of development wikis, which I joined by phone.)
-* [[Greenlivingpedia:|Greenlivingpedia]] - smaller than Appropedia, but with a high average quality of articles. Largely the work of one guy, Peter Campbell who I've met a few times as he's a fellow Australian. Not at the bleeding edge, but he keeps on top of the tech side.
-* http://www.richmondwiki.org/wiki - I came across their blog - looks like they keep up to date & understand the tech side well
-* [[Wikia:|Wikia]] - the leading wiki farm/community of communities, have developed some social features & have clearly put thought into what gets people engaged. I have mixed feelings on the features - some I like, but mostly I need to look more closely at how they're used.
-Fan wikis - there are a bunch of them, many on Wikia. One that impresses me is:
-* http://battlestarwiki.org - nicely maintained, active wiki.
-The fact that many of the successful smaller wikis revolve around tv shows or movies tells us something crucial - humans tend to engage based on fun, stories and shared passions. The brutal truth seems to be that we evolved to gossip more than we evolved to care for or environment, or for people outside our immediate group. But I don't want to focus on something I can't change, so I'm interested in how we can harness fun & stories, & channel our passions. But that another set of topics :). --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 11:03, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-:Yes, humans remain intensely interested in redecorating the ''Titanic'' even as they begin sliding down the listing deck. One sees the same thing on Wikipedia, with the detailed articles about every known footballer, anime character, and anything else that is useless to know. The vast majority of humans are oblivious to the fact that our fossil fuel habit is [http://www.skepticalscience.com/co2-rising-ten-times-faster-than-petm-extinction.html increasing the carbon dioxide content of the Earth's atmosphere at an even faster rate] than it increased leading to the [[wikipedia:Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum|Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum]] - the most catastrophic known period of natural climate change to hit the Earth during the Age of Mammals. If humans had any idea of how dire our situation is, we'd have all hands on deck working toward the needed solution, which is to figure how we are going to drive everyone's carbon footprint below two tonnes per year (or maybe less) as quickly as possible. It is abundantly clear that our [[wikipedia:evolutionary psychology|evolutionary psychology]] is still optimized for advancing our social prospects in the Pleistocene, not for coping with the consequences of our advanced technology. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 21:59, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-::There are a good number people who gather online to share ideas about tackling climate change. This tends to happen most on sites that cater to people's social wiring. The challenge for us to find ways to work with that, but make connections with knowledge resources to help make change. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 21:51, 20 July 2011 (PDT)
-== Blocking Users of Tor ==
-I'm trying to come up with other ways of stopping spammers as ReCAPTCHA doesn't seem to have slowed them down at all. It's possible they are accessing Appropedia through Tor which we could potentially block. I'd like to know if I could get a list of the spammers IP addresses so that I could see if they are using Tor. Assuming they were though, what kind of blocking should be setup? The options are:
-* Prevent Anonymous edits
-* Prevent Account creation
-* Prevent Logged in edits
-* Prevent Logged in edits for accounts younger than a set time period (eg: 1 week)
-I think blocking account creation and anonymous edits would be a good idea. You could setup some sort of contact form should a new user want to edit via tor and create an account for them. --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 12:15, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-:That looks good. For later: Preventing logged in edits might be useful too, but we could add that later. I think "prevent logged in edits" allows for exceptions, either for the account or the IP - so we can consider that if we're having a problem with logged in spammers.
-:I've just been reading these project pages on Wikipedia: [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Open proxies|Open proxies]] & [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Advice to users using Tor to bypass the Great Firewall|Advice to users using Tor to bypass the Great Firewall]] - found them helpful in understanding the issue & how Wikipedia deals with them. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 21:39, 16 July 2011 (PDT)
-::I will set it up on the Dev wiki and then we can move it to live if all goes well? --10:56, 20 July 2011 (PDT)
-:::Good plan.
-:::I like it when we get extensions working that are used by the Wikimedia sites - proven in action, and we can expect them to work. Appreciate your work, Tahnok! --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 20:35, 20 July 2011 (PDT)
-::::I installed TorBlock and checked that it worked, but I've disabled it for now. By default anonymous editing and account creation are blocked when using Tor. --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 07:41, 24 July 2011 (PDT)
-== Cardamom ==
-We have [[CARDOMOM]] and [[Cardomom (Practical Action Brief)]], both of which refer to their subject within their article bodies as "card'''''a'''''mom" rather than "card'''''o'''''mom". Wikipedia has a [[wikipedia:Cardamom|Cardamom]] article but no Cardomom article. I suggest [[wikipedia:WP:MOVE|moving]] the articles to what seems to be the correct spelling, but I'm asking here first in case I'm not seeing something, and since I wasn't previously familiar with the subject. --[[User:Teratornis|Teratornis]] 13:57, 21 July 2011 (PDT)
-:Ah, I love cardamom. Looks like ''cardomom'' is either a misspelling, a much rarer spelling, or correct in another language. Fair question, but I've gone ahead & moved it. The redirects can stay in case anyone uses the other spelling. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 00:37, 22 July 2011 (PDT)
-== New anti-spam tool ==
-[[User:Tahnok]] and [[User:Lonny]] have installed a tool called AbuseFilter - thanks guys! That's a very flexible tool to let us match spam patterns in added text, and either flag them or stop them from being saved. (It's similar to our spam blacklist, but it matches anywhere in the text, not just the url.)
-We don't have any filters yet, but we'll get to work in the next week, and then see if there are other spam patterns that need filtering. I'm hopefully the spam will drop off a fair bit after that.
-Only admins can edit the filters, but anyone can [[Special:AbuseFilter|view them]] and their logs, and anyone can propose a new filter or changes to existing filters.
-'''Notes for admins''':
-* let's start by [[mw:Extension:AbuseFilter#Abuse filter management|importing filters from Wikipedia]] - there are 426 there, so I suggest:
-** we start with any that have more than 50,000 hits
-** if in any doubt, set it to log but not prevent the edit.
---[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 21:15, 27 July 2011 (PDT)
-== Original content policy ==
-Input requested from wiki geeks :-). (From anyone, really, but everyone else will probably be bored...)
-We have this page, addressing how we handle original pages that we have permission to use: [[Appropedia:Original content]]. We seem to be a bit stuck, and there are some details to be worked out. It would be great to have other perspectives.
-Now I'm wondering whether we even want the original versions... if they original exists somewhere already, should we link to that, or is there an advantage of having it here on Appropedia? Another possibility is to open all pages up to editing, and link to the permalink of an earlier version, when it was still "original."
-In practice, I look at a category like {{cl|Beyond dams}} and it's a mess, with 2 versions of each original -  I think that's due to some half-executed plan that I can't remember, where we got stuck on a policy question half-way through. (Re naming... we made a separate namespace called "Original:", so if we do keep separate original pages, it makes sense to use that namespace. The pages ending in "(original)" need to be fixed.)
-Would be great to have a clear policy, so we can start cleaning these pages up. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:00, 28 July 2011 (PDT)
-== Adminship nomination: Tahnok ==
-I nominate Tahnok for [[A:Administrators|adminship]].
-Tahnok (aka Wesley) has proven to be level-headed and competent as our [[A:tech intern]],  making good progress on a number of tasks such as getting the dev site active, testing extensions, getting spam-fighting tools installed, and making a mobile skin which is nearly ready. He's also been marking spam, and if he were an admin he could delete it directly (as well as work directly with the AbuseFilter filters).
-Wesley - I'm assuming here that you'll accept the nomination :-).
-(Note: I'm not following the exact [[A:Administrators/Process|process]] as for now, the Village Pump is the one place I know people will see this and comment.)
-Please place your endorsement or disagreement, and/or comment, below. We can close the vote in a week (or earlier if we're clearly going to have strong consensus). --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:22, 28 July 2011 (PDT)
-* Strong support! --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:22, 28 July 2011 (PDT)
-* I support Tahnok for admin. --[[User:Lonny|Lonny]] 10:52, 28 July 2011 (PDT)
-:I would be more than honoured! --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 07:23, 31 July 2011 (PDT)
-::Very good.
-::I should explain how I see this nomination process. We're aiming for consensus, and if no one objects, we have consensus even if only three people endorse the candidate. (Here we have Lonny & me, plus [[User:Curtbeckmann]] mentioned his support to me in an email.) Since you've mainly worked with Lonny & I on tech stuff, some people won't be aware of your work yet. That's no problem... but if anyone else wants to show support by adding their name to the list above, that would be nice too. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 09:06, 31 July 2011 (PDT)
-== Importing content from another wiki ==
-Hello everybody! I am a newb and I am so sorry if this question has already been answered. I looked around but could not see it, so here goes....
-Is there a way to easily import the entire contents (or selected pages) from another wiki? We went and created www.bottleschools.com/wiki - and then we heard about Appropedia! I wouldn't mind copy-and-pasting all the pages one-by-one, but reuploading all the images too would be a pain!
-Can somebody help me? I have SSH access to the wiki's server so I can execute scripts or run MySQL queries to pull things out of the database, if that helps... Thank you all in advance for your help and patience! --[[User:Heenal|Heenal]] 16:57, 1 August 2011 (PDT)
-: Hello! You can bulk export all your pages with Special:Export on your wiki, but it doesn't that you can do the same for Files... looks like you might have to do it by hand. This might be a great time for me to try and get Bulk Upload working... --[[User:Tahnok|Tahnok]] 19:19, 1 August 2011 (PDT)
-:: Thankyou! I got [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SpecialUploadLocal this extension] working on the Bottle Schools Wiki without too much trouble. Have you tried that one?  I was thinking that, alternatively, I could just put one page on Appropedia linking to the Bottle Schools Wiki in its current location.... But that wouldn't be the best solution, would it, to encourage participation? --[[User:Heenal|Heenal]] 02:42, 2 August 2011 (PDT)
-:::Hi Heenal, glad you found us - great to have you here.
-:::You're very welcome to either import your wiki or link to it. There are some advantages to importing it: more participation, as you say; more visibility; more interaction with a community that shares an interest in appropriate technology, development and education. In terms of workload - importing (with files) will be more work upfront, but will free you from managing the wiki in future, and allow you to focus on your project. (Or, if you want to check our [https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/181/dashboard tech work] and lend a hand, that's an opportunity for team work, building a single excellent wiki together.)
-:::Note you can still allow editing from your own site, of particular pages in Appropedia, by using our API. (Not sure of the details, but it's definitely possible.) Don't worry about that now, though - I'm getting ahead of myself.
-:::Re how to import... we've merged wikis several times, but I didn't do any of the tech side, and we haven't documented the whole process (tsk tsk...). There is a way to import files via the server, and the the SpecialUploadLocal might help with that.
-:::For the text, we have this instruction page: [[Appropedia:Importing wiki pages]] - that explains a process which very carefully avoids misattribution (i.e. if different people have the same username on each wiki). If someone has the same username on each wiki, no problem - otherwise, the xml file should be edited (quick search-and-replace) before importing.
-:::One final thing - the license on your wiki is a non-commercial license, which is incompatible. Would it be possible to ask all the contributors to your wiki to make a note somewhere (here, on a new wiki page, or by email) that they're happy for their contributions to be relicensed under Appropedia's [[CC-by-sa]] license? The same applies to images, if they have a different source.
-:::I hope I'm not being too pedantic :-). It's actually not that much work, and we can work together to get it done.
-:::Thanks --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 10:15, 2 August 2011 (PDT)
-== Organizations and usernames ==
-I just noticed that Wikipedia has a [[Wikipedia:Project:Username policy#Company/group names|policy of not allowing organization names as usernames]]. I think this makes sense - it avoids any potential problems of an individual seeming to represent an organization, and it later turning out that they didn't represent an official position of the organization.
-Using an individual username might also help people to relate to Appropedia as individuals, and feel a part of the community.
-What say we all...? --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 12:28, 5 August 2011 (PDT)
+</div>
-== Nice easy help pages ==
+What do you think? Does this solution serve your needs? [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 15:49, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
-I'm running a workshop with a few lecturers at the University of Indonesia in 4 days time, about using wikis in education. At least a couple from the sociology department are interested in using Appropedia for sustainability-related student projects, but they haven't used wikis before. It's a good opportunity - to have students working with Appropedia, and to work on my explanations.
+:Hi @[[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] & @[[User:J.M.Pearce|J.M.Pearce]], sorry to interrupt, just wanted to say this looks really useful for many CASwiki pages. Thanks for this! Firstly just for more efficient display of a small set of videos, see [[Visions#Video]]. But perhaps much more importantly if one wants to hint at networking or timeline opportunities, see for example [[Scotland CAN/video]], subpage of a potentially collaborative mapping page. Is there any technical reason to suggest max number of videos per gallery or page? From a users point of view I'm guessing over 12 - 15 begins to look overfacing. What do you think? [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 08:42, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
+::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi, glad you find it useful! From a technical point of view, the only thing to consider is that each video requires an extra web request to YouTube in order to get the thumbnail image. Also, remember that in mobile devices, videos won't show in a grid but sequentially. Thus, from a user perspective, I think 6-9 should be enough and 12-15 is a bit borderline. But I'll let you decide that. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
-From working with one of the lecturers, I've realized how important it is to have the answers to basic questions easily accessible. Any improvements to our help pages will help new editors to feel confident, and stick around- would really appreciate any help working on this.
+== Unfortunate top of page display on some pages ==
-For a start, I just worked out how to make a search box for help pages, so I've added that to the top of [[Help:Editing]]. (That little bit of wiki markup can be adapted for any namespace or set of namespaces.)
+This looks perhaps like a recent change to how 'thumb' (or image placement?) works for images (?) Some pages largely unaffected eg [[China community action]], but on others an expanded image frame, which looks odd in itself displaces the more interesting and dynamic content that should be at the top of the page eg [[China news]]. This also has a knock on effect of making page previews far less effective. Not sure how widespread this problem is, just seen on a few pages. [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 15:53, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
-Of course, we can give very brief explanations, and link to a more detailed page elsewhere. Wikipedia has detail (sometimes a mind-numbing amount of detail, but it's a great resource) and [[WikiEducator:|WikiEducator]] has some nice tutorials. (For the workshop I'm doing, I'll point them to the Indonesian Wikipedia's help pages, in their native tongue, but they speak English as well.)
+:@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! Thanks for finding and reporting this bug, it's due to some changes I did to image styling. I'll fix it in the next hour, cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 16:30, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
+::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi again, fixed! Please do a hard refresh (shift+ctrl+R) to clear your browser CSS and let me know of any more issues, thanks! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 18:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
+:::Hi [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]], an outstanding issue seems to be that in a lot of cases the page preview includes first the image text, which displaces the intended top of the page text such as news items, examples: [[China news]], [[Community action London]], [[El Salvador community action]]. Thanks, [[User:Philralph|Philralph]] ([[User talk:Philralph|talk]]) 12:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
+::::@[[User:Philralph|Philralph]] Hi! I just changed the config of [[mw:Extension:TextExtracts]] so that image captions are excluded. The issue should be fixed now, but it may take a few hours or days to get through the various caches. Thanks for the report! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 21:43, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
+== Open source ecology ==
-''Technical note 1'': I've changed the [[MediaWiki:Helppage|system default helppage]] from [[Help:Contents]] to [[Help:Editing]]. The Contents page redirected there anyway - if it becomes an actual page, the default can be changed back.)
+Found the above website today [https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Main_Page]
-''Technical note 2'': A small confusing detail with the search engine at [[Help:Editing]] is that I've added the "Appropedia" namespace as an option, but to a newbie it'll look like it's an option to search Appropedia's mainspace articles. I tried the aliases for the namespace (A: and Project:) but they don't work with inputbox. Something needs to change - remove it? Make it checked by default? Spend days rewriting the code for inputbox? ;-) --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 03:30, 7 August 2011 (PDT)
+seems broadly similar to appropedia. Perhaps those editors will want to cooperate ? [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 15:25, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
-:Personally, I would totally eliminate that section and the search box anywhere it's located, e.g., the help page and the category page. I would create a "See also" section at the bottom of the page and add a link to [[:Category:Appropedia help]].  The entire category has only 43 pages.  The odds of a newbie guessing the name of a useful help page are slim to none.  I would strengthen Appropedia's content browsing features before I worry too much about its content searching capabilities. --[[User:RichardF|RichardF]] 12:01, 7 August 2011 (PDT)
+:@[[User:Moribund|Moribund]] Hi! As you're probably aware, Appropedia has a long history of merging with other sites and wikis. I'd be happy to help with the migration of content and fulfilling any special technical requirements they may have, but I'm not confident in reaching out to them with a proposal (or whatever is the best way to proceed). [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 13:09, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
-::Improving the "See also" sections is good. But I don't see the reasoning for dropping the search box. Some people tend to navigate by available structure (categories, links) and others tend to navigate by search. Guessing a pagename isn't required - they just have to narrow down the pages by a keyword or two. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 13:43, 7 August 2011 (PDT)
+== Remove from admin list ==
-== Solar Bottle Light ==
+Hello! Please can someone remove me as an admin:
-I have stumbled over this nice project a couple of times, but still not figure out how to write the article or how to categorize it on Appropedia. Maybe someone could help and do it?
+# I've never really carried out any admin role on this site.
+# I don't support some of the political affiliations of Appropedia and so I don't want to be associated. I believe Appropedia should primarily be non-political in nature.
-http://isanglitrongliwanag.org/
+Thank you, [[User:Moribund|Moribund]] ([[User talk:Moribund|talk]]) 17:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
-It is non-electric, but a solar project.
+:@[[User:Moribund|Moribund]] Not sure what political affiliation you mean, but sure, I just removed you from the admin group. Cheers! [[User:Sophivorus|Sophivorus]] ([[User talk:Sophivorus|talk]]) 22:13, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
-It is actually named Solar Bottle Bulb, and the technology were developed at MIT
-And I see there is a bottle LED light project here, so I guess there is a need to include more of these smart low-technology descriptions.
+== heat stress on cognitive focus ==
---[[User:Yeahvle|Yeahvle]] 23:16, 8 August 2011 (PDT)
+effect of heat stress on cognitive focus [[Special:Contributions/49.145.187.72|49.145.187.72]] 01:16, 21 April 2024 (UTC)