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Appropedia:Forums

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We've been re talking about installing a forum being implemented forums for Appropedia.See the BetterMeans tasks: [https://secure.bettermeans.com/issues/7514 Install a forum] and . {{TOCright}}== Why? ==
== Why ==A forum:* Provides an easy way to engage for the many, many people who find a wiki daunting. We want people to feel comfortable with the wiki, but this can help provide an "on ramp" and provide support during the process.* Provides an easy way to have discussion on particular subjects, groups of pages or activities.* An easy way to monitor discussions, bring active threads to the top, and make important threads "sticky". (MediaWiki talk pages can be useful for specific articles or projects, but it's hard to get an overview of discussions or follow threads. It's rare for newcomers to post to the [[A:Village Pump|Village Pump]], and no doubt it's hard for them to make sense of that page. ''LiquidThreads'' is one way to try to improve discussions within MediaWiki, but it still has problems.)* Helps build a sense of community.
* Provides an easy way to engage for the === How is this different from other forums? === There are manyforums on sustainability, many people who find a wiki dauntingpermaculture, transition etc - it's possible to join those communities and discuss these topics.The Appropedia Forum is different in being:* Provides an easy way to have discussion Focused on particular areasbuilding a knowledge resource. While topics and tangents may abound, we have a mutual understanding that we want to turn that knowledge into an open knowledge resource - i.e.g. groups a set of wiki pages or activities.* An easy way to monitor discussions, bring active threads [[Open license]]d. The terms of contributing are similar to the topwiki - your contributions can be reused (for example on the wiki), with attribution, under the [[CC-by-sa]] license.* A place for Appropedians to get to know each other and make important threads inspire each other. This helps keep us inspired to build this living library. * Somewhere where we don't have to constantly explain why something belongs on a wiki page - because we're talking with people who "stickyget it".
==Desired features==
This The central issue is currently documented at [https://secure.bettermeans.com/projects/202/that the forum should support the work of the wiki/Specification BetterMeans . It should support users getting their work done - Forum Specification] (and possibly whether that should just be merged here)work is Appropedia in general, or the particular project they're working on. But The forum should help people in briefwriting articles, inspire them, and encourage people back to the wiki. This means:* Creating the right culture, and the right practices* Avoiding "chatty" platforms that highlight latest activity without appropriate context (e.g. BuddyPress)
;Single Specific features we want:* Cross-login with wikiand (hopefully) the WordPress blog. ''Should'' be easy enough with an OpenID backend. (Sounds easy, but we haven't triedyet.) ** Bonus points for a shared profile, and system messages that work across the sub-sites.* Ability to embed forums or forum threads into an Appropedia page. Our [[Appropedia:Widgets|Widgets]] seems the obvious way - we need to test how well this works. * Open source - for practical reasons (easier for us to tweak, we can get all features for free) and reasons of principle.* Sticky threads - for important announcements & guidelines.* Social features: profile, link to a user's own site(s), feed activity to Facebook or elsewhere* RSS feeds for each forum and the entire site* Widely used & well-supported* Easy formatting - '''strong''' preference for WYSIWYG. Having one kind of markup on the wiki, and another kind on the forum, would be too much. * Allow users to flag spam* Voting, so we can find and highlight popular posts.* A Q&A Ticket System ([http://secure.bettermeans.com/issues/7505 task]) so that community members can ask questions to the Appropedia community, (e.g. "how can I make my rainwater catchment system more potable in Guatemala?") and the best answers can be marked and compiled.) **
;Smooth integration with Appropedia's other platformsSome advantage here with a WordPress-based forum, as it should deal with blog logins at the same time.=== Possibly desired features ===
;Ability to embed forums or * Replace talk pages on the wiki with forum threads into pages. (Probably not achievable with our current resources.)We talked about this in early days - there's no obvious way to do this within the site, and LiquidThreads (an Appropedia pageattempt to have forum style talk pages) has had mixed results.(LiquidThreads 3.0 is under development by the Wikimedia Foundation, however, so it may be best to wait for that.)* Email notification of replies. (phpBB does this - e.g. http://forums.permaculture.org.au)This may actually be a disadvantage, according to one writer about online community, as it means people don't have to revisit the site to check for answers. (My feeling is that people can still forget to come back, and it ''is'' a useful feature. --[[AppropediaUser:WidgetsChriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] seems the obvious way 22:21, 7 April 2011 (PDT))* Reply by email (not sure if it's possible, and probably not desirable - we need as above, better to test how well this worksget the user to visit. )* Compatible with WordPress and/or MediaWiki
;Open sourceFor practical reasons (easier for us to tweak, we can get all features for free) and reasons of principle.=== Avoid ===
;Sticky threadsFor important announcements, guidelines* Fragmented interfaces that expose content and comments without context (i.e. "chatty" or noisy platforms - activity rather than purpose)
==Possibly desired featuresProposed solutions==
;Replace talk pages with forum pages
We talked about this in early days - there's no obvious way to do this within the site,
;Email notification of replies. (phpBB does this - e.g. http://forums.permaculture.org.au)
This may actually be a disadvantage, according to one writer about online community, as it means people don't have to revisit the site to check for answers. (My feeling is that people can still forget to come back, and it ''is'' a useful feature. --[[User:Chriswaterguy|Chriswaterguy]] 22:21, 7 April 2011 (PDT))
==Proposed solutions= Standalone options === * phpBB{{w|phpBB}} - leading forum software** proven and highly supported.** probably the best feature set in an open source or freeware platform* Vanilla Forums[http://vanillaforums.org/] - open-source, standards-compliant, customizable discussion forums.** easy to use and good documentation** clean look** seems friendly towards integration - e.g. can be embedded in WordPress** not clear that we'd be able to export easily (they seem to be working on an export tool, and even then it depends on the format). However, being open source makes it likely that there'll be an export solution. The standalone packages seem to be more mature. However, a downside is that they would be yet another platform on top of our MediaWiki + WordPress. This makes it harder to have consistent look and feel, and cross-login. === WordPress options === * BBPress[http://bbpress.org/] - forum software with a twist from the creators of WordPress** Can share login with WordPress or be entirely embedded within it* Simple:Press[http://simple-press.com/] the feature rich, completely integrated and fully scalable forum plugin for WordPress** Clean looking** Plenty of functionality* [http://cartpauj.com/projects/mingle-forum-plugin/ Mingle Forum] a Forum Plugin for WordPress that just works** Optionally integrates with [http://blairwilliams.com/mingle Mingle] These options may be missed some features compared to the standalone options. However, they should integrate nicely with WordPress, making it easier to have consistent look and feel, and easier to set up and manage cross-login. === Unsuitable ===
*phpBB{{w|phpBB}} proven and highly supported*Simple:PressCrabgrass[http://simple-presscrabgrass.comriseuplabs.org/]"is a software libre web application designed for social networking, group collaboration and network organizing. Our goal is to create communication tools that are tailored specifically to meet the needs of bottom up grassroots organizing."** Seems focused on helping users taking action - which is great.** Not mature enough, not very easy to use, by [[User:Jason_Michael_Smithson|Jason]]'s assessment.*BBPress[http://bbpresswpsymposium.orgcom/WP Symposium] - should integrate nicely with is a suite of WordPressplugins to provide social networking features** Still in beta - looks promising, but not yet proven. Doesn't describe itself as a standalone installforum, but as a kind of online meeting space...
*Drupal{{w|Drupal}}
** key advantage is that it would let us do our blog and forum through the same platform.
** only feasible if we have a committed Drupal person pretty much on call. Drupal is much trickier than WordPress.
** highly customizable, but we probably don't need this much power if we just want a simple forum.* Vanilla Forums[http://vanillaforumswww.orgvbulletin.com/vBulletin]** looks easy Neither gratis nor libre, trying to usebecome a CMS*[http://wagn.org/ WagN]* can * Requires wagneering to be embedded a forum* [http://buddypress.org/ BuddyPress] Social networking in WordPressa box.** not clear that weUnfocused, gives sense of activity rather than a sense of purpose.* [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:AWC%27s_Forum Extension:AWC'd be able to export easily s Forum] (they seem MediaWiki extension)** The only reasonably mature option for MediaWiki** Appears to be working on an export tool, and even then it depends on the format). However, being open source makes it likely that there'll be an export solution.no longer actively developed
== Next steps (April 2011) ==
The forum will operate under these policies:
* Be friendly and positive: Relevant wiki policies of civility, no personal attacks, not disrupting to make a point...
* The policy of [[a:rigor|rigor]] is less strictly applied, as the forum can be a place for questions and wild ideas. Though if someone is promoting perpetual motion machines or other baseless claims (e.g. the [http://forums.permaculture.org.au/archive/o_t__t_4667__what-happened-with-the-water-fuel-cell.html water fuel cell]), we may gently point to this policy and explain why we don't give attention focus to such things; if someone insists on exploring such ideas, we can ask them to take it to the PES wiki, or to come back when they have a working model, or when they want to focus on other issues. * All posts are released under the [[CC-by-sa]] License, so that relevant content can be easily adapted for use in the wiki (or elsewhere) with attribution. (Attribution in the edit summary is enough when contributing to the wiki? This way it's equivalent in attribution terms to the person posting it directly to the wiki. Or just allow attribution to the forum, with a link to the specific page.) == See also == * [[Appropedia:Talk page development]]
==External links==
[[Category:Appropedia site development]]
[[Category:Appropedia community]]
[[Category:Appropedia WordPress site]]
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