Talk:Solar hot water

[edit] Some comments

Here are some of my questions and comments on this page:

1. The background seems to have an inappropriate amount of opinion.
2. Should the page name be changed to Solar hot water basics, and Solar hot water just link to [[Category:Solar hot water]].
   • User:Chriswaterguy and other admins are currently working on this policy.
3. The photovoltaic references in the Energy From The Sun part seem very out of place.
4. How is this Appropedia value added over a purely encyclopedic article that would be better placed at Wikipedia? This article should probably focus more on making it happen.

Thank you, --Lonny 19:35, 2 September 2007 (PDT)

Hey, all:

Some notes from a newbie who is not yet BOLD, and doesn't have the HTML/formatting skills to make quick improvements. First, on the technical side, "solar THERMAL energy" is incorrect since it is all sunlight of all wavelengths, and it is converted to infra red heat in the collector and transferred to the water. Collectors are black to absorb as much light as possible for this very reason. A white hose on the lawn has less energy conversion than a black one for this reason. A solar water collector works at the same conversion rate in the coldest weather as it does in hot weather for the same reason. It is not "thermal" until it is converted.

Second, functionally solar water is efficient and easy not for the reasons stated, but because the solar energy is free, i.e., NO FUEL COST. System costs can be very reasonable as well, which leads to....

Third, from a practicality standpoint, it should be stated in an appropriate place that solar domestic water heating systems are among the most cost-effective means of reducing utility and energy costs, and if fossil fuels are otherwise involved, reducing GHG is also cost-effective and direct. For this reason, a solar hot water system is the first thing people should consider purchasing or building. Single-family residences and buildings with <2-3 floors can be fitted with roof-top systems with little complexity due to pipe runs. Moer floors gets more expensive due to piping costs. Properly sized for user demand and sunlight availability, a system can supplant practically 100% of conventional water heating needs.

Fourth, I noticed a batch heater (type with the horizontal tank above the collector) photo at the top of the page and the same one at the bottom.

Fifth, to illustrate the installed extent of solar water, there is a photo of a European apartment rooftop with dozens of collectors. If I can find it, I will see about providing it.

Sorry at this point to appear to be on the sidelines kibitzing, but as I learn I will be able to act more directly to improve things.

David Messages done with sustainable energy, with Wind and Sun! 20:02 9 Aug 2008 CDT

Hi David,

Great comments. Below are responses to each of your points.

First: Good point, feel free to change the text as such. You can keep the link to the excellent, Practical Action Solar thermal energy page by placing it somewhere else more appropriate on the page. Or by using a pipe (|) to link using a different name, e.g. [[Solar thermal energy|Solar energy]] links to Solar energy.

Second: Functionally solar water is efficient for the reasons stated, i.e. it is more efficient than conversion because of the losses associate with conversion. That said, I agree that the effectiveness is even more a product of the incredibly cheap energy source of the sun (I usually differentiate between free energy and really cheap energy, solar power being really cheap because it is landing all day long but you still need to get it, whereas nothing is free... of course this is merely semantics). Please click edit on the introduction and change the text as you see fit.

Third: For any assertions, like stating what the first thing a person should consider is, citations are really useful. In addition, try to state where the statement holds true, such as "In the United States...".

Fourth: You can delete that photo by clicking edit and deleting the last image, which is written as [[Image:Solar_heater.jpg|thumb]].

Fifth: That would be great. Just make sure that you get permission (or that permission exists) to use the image under the GFDL or CC license (many photos on wikipedia and flickr use these open licenses). I took some nice photos of this in Morocco two months ago, but the camera was stolen before I could transfer them. I may have another image, that shows how extensive solar water heater installations can be, from somewhere else. Let me know if you do not find the image and I will look through my own.

Don't be sorry about kibitzing... lurking, then asking questions and starting to slowly engage is a good way to go. I hope that this feedback helps you proceed.

Please don't let your lack of formatting skills stand in your way. Most of what you need to know about formatting is at Help:Contents (and the rest under Category:Appropedia help). Please try editing and ask for assistance when you need it. All changes are stored under the history tab (click it at the top of a page to see all the changes), so we can always revert back if needed. Please do keep in mind that we are building global living library. Much more important than formatting, is truth, transparency and tone. Editorializing is great on the talk pages, but work on category pages should be referenced and scientifically valid. Thank you for helping us get closer to that.

Thank you, --Lonny 02:39, 10 August 2008 (PDT)(PS use 4 ~'s to get an automatic signature... you can set your signature in your preferences)

[edit] One extra note about licenses

It's important to only use images with free licenses - which in CC terms means CC-BY-SA or CC-BY, and not anything with an NC or ND clause (i.e. "non-commercial" or "no derivatives").

Non-commercial license specifications make Richard Stallman sad ;). --Chriswaterguy 03:22, 10 August 2008 (PDT)